Orient Match Thoughts

[Medway Blue]

Come on. Don't any of you tell me you didn't know that was coming. It was inevitable!

Can't say that it's setting any MAJOR alarm bells off in my head. Only worrying thing for me is how shocking we look up front. We just don't look like cutting anyone open. C Mac looked lively when he came on and I believe he'll do well, but Tilly MUST invest in the forward line.

From first to last, I thought that technically, we looked a cut above them. People might say that we could put almost the same team out that we regularly put out in L1 last time around, but I honestly feel that all of our players are better players for their collective experiences in the Championship last season. This showed for me today against Orient. The midfield looked quite good until Macca got sent off (I know, I wanted to hit Thornton too, but you just can't lash out - he had to go). Bailey looks like he'll be good when he settles in and showed some nice touches and passes, and Black has the look of a real quality player. I think the whole midfield unit looks good, and we have great options on the bench. Defence wise, we weren't bad. Barrett and Clarke worked well together in the first half but faded a little after that. Che surprised me, I thought he did well and one a tonne of headers, and Gilbert was impressive, although he loses his footing a little bit too much.

At the end of the day, we had two problems today. A referee who fell for the antics of that s**tty little c**t Thornton, and the fact that our forward line (although I'll reserve judgment on C Mac) looks extremely unthreatening. It was 10 men against 12 for the last half an hour, and if we hadn't gone a man down I think we'd definitely have won it, because before that, we were head and shoulders above Orient in quality.

I'm not going to read too much into the match. What excites me is our midfield options. But please, Tilly - a new striker is needed badly! Hooper was pretty ineffective. Harrold showed some nice touches and holding up and won a few headers, but he has little strength or pace, is barged off the ball too easily and just shows no threat in front of goal, although he didn't do TOO badly I suppose seeing as though he was up front alone in the second half. And he and Hooper were NEVER in the box (apart from once with Hooper in the first half) when a cross was ready to be sent over!

 

[Jam_Man]

The difference was Thornton, I dont advocate he cheated, Maher definitely caught him for the free kick and McCormacks fouls looked like bookings. Annoying as he is he is a great player.

I thought JCR looked bright and was our only real outlet in the second half. Gilbert did well, made some terrilbe mistakes but linked well with JCR and looked good generally.

McCormack did well but his lunging in cost us again.

Even thought Che Wilson was ok, make a couple of terrible "che" passes but overall nothing to be too scared.

Up front Hooper looked lively enough without doing much.

 

[shrimper dan]

to summarise all that into one sentence. the match was crap.
the ref gave them everything. that blonde **** fell over like a granny who lost her walking stick. he was the result for mccormack getting sent off. i dont blame the ref for sending him off, it was a red card offence but if he was gonna get sent off, i wish he done some sort of damage to that little prick.
also our (striker) was awful. harrold lost every ball. didnt win any headers. cant comment much on hooper as he had to come off to fill mccormacks gap. plus what i want to know is what damage is black and macdonald going to do 5 mins from the end.

 

[Medway Blue]

The difference was Thornton, I dont advocate he cheated, Maher definitely caught him for the free kick and McCormacks fouls looked like bookings. Annoying as he is he is a great player.

I thought JCR looked bright and was our only real outlet in the second half. Gilbert did well, made some terrilbe mistakes but linked well with JCR and looked good generally.

McCormack did well but his lunging in cost us again.

Even thought Che Wilson was ok, make a couple of terrible "che" passes but overall nothing to be too scared.

Up front Hooper looked lively enough without doing much.

Accept your opinion. I just feel that from where I was sitting, over and over again, Thornton dived. I don't think the majoority of 7,000 home fans would be on their feet screaming blue murder if they didn't think the same, and he was EXACTLY the same when Donny beat us 1-0 at our place towards the end of 05/06. Good player, yes, but overshadowed by his attitude. Can't argue with Macca's second yella though. You can't lash out and he had to go.

JCR looked very bright and sent over some great crosses, but I wish our strikers would show some liveliness themselves and be in there when the coss comes over! Hooper looked lively, but I still don't see enough of a goal threat from him.

 

[Medway Blue]

to summarise all that into one sentence. the match was crap.
the ref gave them everything. that blonde **** fell over like a granny who lost her walking stick. he was the result for mccormack getting sent off. i dont blame the ref for sending him off, it was a red card offence but if he was gonna get sent off, i wish he done some sort of damage to that little prick.
also our (striker) was awful. harrold lost every ball. didnt win any headers. cant comment much on hooper as he had to come off to fill mccormacks gap. plus what i want to know is what damage is black and macdonald going to do 5 mins from the end.

I know. That's the one thing that really grinds my gears about Tilly. Those two should have been on 10-15 minutes earlier, because when they did come on, they looked lively and at least a bit threatening. If they had more time, they could have turned the game. Black was standing at the dugout ready to come on for 10 mins earlier in the second half and Tilly sent him back! Obviously proved too much for him to bring on a sub before 85 mins.

 

[Jam_Man]

Accept your opinion. I just feel that from where I was sitting, over and over again, Thornton dived. I don't think the majoority of 7,000 home fans would be on their feet screaming blue murder if they didn't think the same, .

Home fans arent biased are they ? :)

Thats the way Thornton and many other players play. For example, Mahers foul on the edge of the penatly area was definitely a foul, he caught him and Thornton went to groung to get the free kick. Yet everyone around me was screaming dive. Yes he went down to easy but he was still fouled...

Its annoying but we wouldnt be complaining if JCR did it.

The substitions were ridiculous though, why wait until injury time, pointless.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

if jcr did what that **** did today i would not be cheering him. what of example is that setting. i would not want to watch a team that has to chest to him. and i am so glad southend is not one of those teams.

 

[Medway Blue]

Home fans arent biased are they ? :)

Thats the way Thornton and many other players play. For example, Mahers foul on the edge of the penatly area was definitely a foul, he caught him and Thornton went to groung to get the free kick. Yet everyone around me was screaming dive. Yes he went down to easy but he was still fouled...

Its annoying but we wouldnt be complaining if JCR did it.

The substitions were ridiculous though, why wait until injury time, pointless.

Yup, can see your point there mate. On the 'home fans bias' thing, I agree to a point, but the reaction he got today for supposedly being a 'cheat' was a lot more intense than any other home crowd reaction I've seen at The Hall, and there must be something in that. That's what I think anyway! :minger:

 

[Jam_Man]

Well on that performance Id be delighted if he played for us...

 

[Medway Blue]

Yes, admittedly, he's a good player.

 

[wiggy]

Accept your opinion. I just feel that from where I was sitting, over and over again, Thornton dived. I don't think the majoority of 7,000 home fans would be on their feet screaming blue murder if they didn't think the same, and he was EXACTLY the same when Donny beat us 1-0 at our place towards the end of 05/06. Good player, yes, but overshadowed by his attitude. Can't argue with Macca's second yella though. You can't lash out and he had to go.

JCR looked very bright and sent over some great crosses, but I wish our strikers would show some liveliness themselves and be in there when the coss comes over! Hooper looked lively, but I still don't see enough of a goal threat from him.

We always look for a scapegoat for our inadequacies on the pitch, Dugoid, Thornton, if we rammed 3 in the back of the net it wouldn't matter, no chance of that though is there!

 

[Medway Blue]

We always look for a scapegoat for our inadequacies on the pitch, Dugoid, Thornton, if we rammed 3 in the back of the net it wouldn't matter, no chance of that though is there!

Thornton's attitude and Macca's subsequent reaction turned the game. Fact. If he hadn't been sent off, we'd have won, and up until the incident, we were by far the better side. But admittedly, no, with the striking options we have atm, we have no chance of banging in three goals per game.

 

[Southendsleeper]

Was chatting to the bloke who sits next to me before the match, and the subject of who'd be the first to be suspended came up, (out of many subjects), and he thought it'd be McCormack

I think we were all surprised that he didnt even last until the end of the first match though

 

[shrimper4life]

I dont see what Charlie Mac did that well to single him out from the other strikers. He lacks pace and looks a bit lightweight, im not sure about him...

 

[Hullbridge Si]

Well the match for me felt the same as last season, tilson has no real
tactical knowledge! why bring on the subs with no time to make an impact? che was rubbish, so was gilbert (apart from a couple of time when he went forward) can he not stay on his feet? gower grew some balls in the second half but the first half he didn't want to tackle.
harold played better than hooper, but we missed bradbury holding the ball up so the midfield could join the play. oh and flavs had a very poor game.
if we can sort out the little things then top 6 here we come!

 

[Kenny]

on a brighter note I thought Barrett and Clarke looked commanding at the back.

 

[Mr Gilbo]

I said to my brother at half time that Tilly should take off Macca put Bailey on for the second half. If only!!

 

[Richard_Cadette]

My thoughts about today.

Sean Thornton was the best player on the park by some distance - I said when Orient signed him in the pre season that was an excellent bit of business, and I was dissapointed we didnt sign someone of that calibre. He tore us to shreds when Donny were here last and did so again today, everything positive for Orient went through him. I dont think he dived much at all really, everytime he went down, it was because someone in our side had fouled him, simple as that. He out thought McCormack as well, he knew by winding him up, he was liable to do something like that, and he fell for it - You have to admire the intelligence if nothing else!

McCormack was completely ill disciplined and cost us any chance of winning that match, and I hope Tilly stamps down quickly on this kind of behaviour. We saw it last week at Crawley with Foran, now his sparring partner getting his marching orders 7 days later is not good enough. He completely blotted his copy book as up to then he was doing fine - his run to set up our goal was superb, and showed the difference between the Championship and League One - that run would have been checked in the Championship, in League One, Orient didnt even spot him!!

I dont agree that we were head and shoulders above Orient today - they looked extremely average to me, and we did as we often do, and sank to there level at times. There were times when we showed some class, our goal for example, but we did that on too few occasions and allowed them to have too much possession in and around our penalty box, and that cost us with the first goal.

I am a huge fan of JCR as many of you know, but I thought he was poor today - he was at fault for there winner, losing possession in the middle of the park when he didnt need to, and tried holding onto the ball too long - I kind of got the impression he thought it was going to be easier than it actually was.

Also, I am going to buck my trend of criticising Tilly over his substitutions today - yes, they were late, but up until Orient scored there winner, I didnt see much point in changing it - they werent really hurting us, and putting Charlie Mac up front on his own would have been a terrible idea. If nothing else, Harrold is relatively tall and you would need someone who could get on the end of crosses if we were to break, so I dont blame him for that too much.

Defensively, overall, i didnt think they actually caused us that many problems, we looked fairly solid, it took a wonder goal to get on terms and a mistake by us in midfield for them to score there winner, so for the moment at least, I would say they are going to be ok.... As long as Gilbert remembers he has to defend as well as attack ;)

The biggest worry for me today would be the strike force. There were a few times that we opened Orient up, or put a ball in behind there back four, and we had absolutely no pace up front to exploit that area, which made us very dimensional in the end. Harrold couldnt be knocked for his effort, but just doesnt look like scoring, and as much as it is starting to sound like a broken record now, i dont think its just coincidence that almost everyone is saying the same thing.

Having said that, he shouldn't take the full burden of why we looked ineffective going forward - I thought Hooper didnt have one of his better days at the office today, and I am still struggling to see what all the fuss is about regarding him, I really am.

I notice Paynter wasnt even on the bench and I would be amazed if he was still with us by the end of the transfer window - he wont accept sitting in the reserves in League One, and it is becoming clearer that Tilly just doesnt rate him - so why not cut your losses and get rid. Personally, I would love to see him being given the chance of first team football with us, I believe he is good enough at this level and will score goals, but if you're not going to play him, then get rid, and sign someone you are going to play.

It is only one game, and we cant get too downbeat about it - we always lose to Orient, and as annoying as it is, we have to just get on with it, but it is clear to everyone who was there, and everyone who has been watching in pre season that we are toothless up front and we have to address that before too long.

 

[Jam_Man]

Agree with most of that RC especially the Thornton/McCormack part.

I cant see why you dont see anything in Hooper but think Paynter will do well though, I dont think Paynter would do any better than Harrold and as he didnt even make the bench Tilson obviously thinks so too.

I dont agree with JCR being poor, he got some good crosses in today and was instrumental in setting up the goal too. When we were at 10 men he was easily our best outlet and the only way we were going to score was through him.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

Agree with most of that RC especially the Thornton/McCormack part.

I cant see why you dont see anything in Hooper but think Paynter will do well though, I dont think Paynter would do any better than Harrold and as he didnt even make the bench Tilson obviously thinks so too.

I dont agree with JCR being poor, he got some good crosses in today and was instrumental in setting up the goal too. When we were at 10 men he was easily our best outlet and the only way we were going to score was through him.

Yeah, you're probably right about JCR thinking about it, I think I was just thinking him needlessly losing the ball in midfield for them to score - it is the first time I have criticised him actually, what was I thinking!! :)

I just cant see anything special in Hooper, I am not saying he isnt any good, just cant see anything amazing about him - football is all about opinions I guess, and I am well aware a lot of people like him, but I havent jumped on the bandwaggon yet - but I am happy to be persuaded otheriwise!

IMO I think Paynter is a better player than Harrold, he has a proven track record at this level, and he is much stronger when it comes to holding off challenges, and I would go with him above Harrold. You cant knock his effort, I have no problem with that, and it is clear he wants to be successful for us, but sometimes, that isnt enough on its own - you need ability and cutting edge, and sadly, IMO, Matty is lacking in both.