Liverpool Street Line

[osymandus]

On the Plus side I was much cheered by a recorded announcement at Liv St tonight confirming that smoking IS permitted on all National Express trains and stations.

I don't buy the argument that it is Network Rail's fault. My contract is with NE and with parking they take around £4.5k of my hard earned cash. I've had more delays due to engineering works since August than I've had in the previous 23 years of commuting.

Trying to "upgrade" too much in one go would be my guess. To run to the wire with no decent contingency in place is disgraceful. That is nothing to do with Network Rail.

I agree with you about the parking and service, but as already stated they really have no affect over the rail infrastructure itself. Too many mistakes were made in its past fro our rail way system to be even considered compatant. And we have to share a tiny bit of blame for not all acting and saying hang on im not using this anymore. (and no people cannot be sacked or removed whole scale from jobs , to complain or protest about public transport). a small donation of about 0.5% to 2% Pa from business why uses commuters might be away round this :D

 

[osymandus]

So out of all the possible points that could have been neglected due to the mass non investment you can only mention the one thing that has not been upgraded, yes I agree power is main thing but as it does not have many moving parts I guess it is less likely to fail, then either the rolling stock or the signaling.

Anyway my point was to show that there has not been widespread non investment in the infrastructure since privatisation. So the question should be asked if the company went belly up in the 70's then BR had nearly 20 years to get it replaced but you are holding the privatised companies for the neglect.

Why not ? They took it over for the purpose of running and mainting the services ? Duing BR's tenure they were controled by government officials. (A classic one that was not brought in late 70's i believe ) were the high speed tilting trains . Ignored due to it being felt they were not worth the effort .

This comes down to that happy medium again the service based elements that the private sector says it offers ;) , and the stability yet contolled aspect of it being a service (not run entirely for what ever profit you can get ) industry. Oh dear were screwed

 

[MK Shrimper]

So out of all the possible points that could have been neglected due to the mass non investment you can only mention the one thing that has not been upgraded, yes I agree power is main thing but as it does not have many moving parts I guess it is less likely to fail, then either the rolling stock or the signalling.

Anyway my point was to show that there has not been widespread non investment in the infrastructure since privatisation. So the question should be asked if the company went belly up in the 70's then BR had nearly 20 years to get it replaced but you are holding the privatised companies for the neglect.

What you fail to realise is that maintenance of the equipment during 1994 - 2004 was down to privatised companies - Balfour Beatty & AMEC, who had absolutely no compulsion to spend a fortune on replacement of equipment, nor did Railtrack as both were there to make profits for shareholders.

The LTS line is so unimportant in the grand scheme of things they'd never spend the billions needed to bring it up to scratch, unlike the Channel Tunnel rail link, or the West Coast Main Line where £8 Billion+ has been spent and it still doesn't work.

 

[Pubey]

you don't get this op north!

joking aside... there is a simple solution. give us an extra bank-holiday, they have more time to do their works and we are brought into line with much of Europe. win-win situation IMO!

 

[MK Shrimper]

you don't get this op north!

joking aside... there is a simple solution. give us an extra bank-holiday, they have more time to do their works and we are brought into line with much of Europe. win-win situation IMO!

Pubey for PM!

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

What you fail to realise is that maintenance of the equipment during 1994 - 2004 was down to privatised companies - Balfour Beatty & AMEC, who had absolutely no compulsion to spend a fortune on replacement of equipment, nor did Railtrack as both were there to make profits for shareholders.

I do not see how I fail to recognise that as you say in the mid 90s privatised company took over the maintenance which meant that BR had from the 70s to mid 90s to sort it out, nearly 20 years in my book!

The LTS line is so unimportant in the grand scheme of things they'd never spend the billions needed to bring it up to scratch, unlike the Channel Tunnel rail link, or the West Coast Main Line where £8 Billion+ has been spent and it still doesn't work.

As mentioned before that c2c is a 'fecking branch line' translated to be 'unimportant in the grand scheme of things' which is why privatisation helped our little branch line, as things were actually done for the 1st time since the 50s that was for the benefit of the line and not just hand me downs from the bigger more impressive other lines. So if we want back to a nationalised railway c2c would again become insignificant and us commuters in this wonderful corner of England would suffer again.

 

[MK Shrimper]

The railways have been a political pawn between the unions and the Tory governments.

If BR was still around today, their hands would have been forced into modernisation on the LTS. Perhaps that work would have been done cheaper rather than by overpaid contractors and companies like Exel (who add 10% on any spares we want to buy as we can't go to companies directly), and perhaps the power side (which is tucked away from passengers so they don't see the bits of string holding it all together) would have been sorted as well.

The simple fact is that something you already owned was sold off. Thatcher/Major and their cronies sold off the family silver and left you with diddly squat.

 

[Pubey]

on the whole i think the trains are very good... i regularly use them across the whole country and think, from monday 9-5, they are superb. travelling at the weekend is a nightmare sometimes because of the works, and i was on c2c yesterday morning and it was ram packed with people due to the One line being shut... and that's just not on IMO, especially after the problems before.

 

[MK Shrimper]

on the whole i think the trains are very good... i regularly use them across the whole country and think, from monday 9-5, they are superb. travelling at the weekend is a nightmare sometimes because of the works, and i was on c2c yesterday morning and it was ram packed with people due to the One line being shut... and that's just not on IMO, especially after the problems before.

They're ridiculously overpriced, dirty and crowded.

 

[Napster]

They're ridiculously overpriced, dirty and crowded.

South East Trains was wonderful this week, except the trolley ran out of gin and tonic on the way home. :'(

 

[Pubey]

They're ridiculously overpriced, dirty and crowded.

they are overpriced because they are crowded.. i'm sure you'll appreciate that they can't just magic extra trains and carriages... especially on an already overstretched network. they are also extremely expensive for people who don't plan ahead. and i think it's only fair that people who suddenly need them on a whim pay more. train pricing systems are ludicrously complex, but they are trying to milk every penny as the demand is there but they can't actually supply the carriages on the peak times. if you think c2c at 5.15 is mental, try getting northern rail, they sometimes only have 1 carriage!!!

i think that they are all fairly clean, and definitely a lot better than they used to be when i was younger.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Track & train need to be in the same company like every other country in the world. The current system gets more government funding than BR ever did and it doesn't work very well.

 

[Mad Cyril]

they are overpriced because they are crowded.. i'm sure you'll appreciate that they can't just magic extra trains and carriages... especially on an already overstretched network. they are also extremely expensive for people who don't plan ahead. and i think it's only fair that people who suddenly need them on a whim pay more. train pricing systems are ludicrously complex, but they are trying to milk every penny as the demand is there but they can't actually supply the carriages on the peak times. if you think c2c at 5.15 is mental, try getting northern rail, they sometimes only have 1 carriage!!!

I work in Canary Wharf.

When I went to renew my season ticket from Benfleet to Zone 2 I was advised by the ticket clerk that it was actually cheaper to buy a daily return from Benfleet to Zone 2 (£10.60 per day) than to purchase an annual season ticket.

I only live 5 minutes walk from the station so I pop along on a Sunday and purchase my tickets for the week to avoid having to queue each morning. It is no real inconvenience and it saves me hundreds of pounds a year.

C2C only need to implement a shoot to kill policy on anyone playing MP3s through their mobile phone speakers and they will be pretty much the perfect train company.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

C2C only need to implement a shoot to kill policy on anyone playing MP3s through their mobile phone speakers and they will be pretty much the perfect train company.

Have you not read about the new Quiet zone carriages? They are going to be putting up a special film on the windows to interfere with the phone signal and also will have staff members in the carriage enforcing the Quiet area. It would be interesting to see this in action.

 

[McScriven]

The Mrs has to go to Birmingham on business tomorrow and her ticket is costing £150!!!! Which is a standard ticket.

No wonder no one wants to use them.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

Track & train need to be in the same company like every other country in the world. The current system gets more government funding than BR ever did and it doesn't work very well.

So the real crux of the problem is not privatisation but the way it was implemented. Similar to the Poll Tax a great idea but implemented completely wrong. It should have been more a like a local Income tax, so the more you earn the more you pay but every person over 18 should be paying for the local services.

You see by making sweeping generalisations you hide the real issue. ;)

Regarding the family silver stuff and owning it, we never owned any of the nationalised industries we were just its cash cow to keep them going without any thought about modernising and streamlining to be efficient and prepared for the 21st century. :p

 

[MK Shrimper]

So the real crux of the problem is not privatisation but the way it was implemented. Similar to the Poll Tax a great idea but implemented completely wrong. It should have been more a like a local Income tax, so the more you earn the more you pay but every person over 18 should be paying for the local services.

You see by making sweeping generalisations you hide the real issue. ;)

Regarding the family silver stuff and owning it, we never owned any of the nationalised industries we were just its cash cow to keep them going without any thought about modernising and streamlining to be efficient and prepared for the 21st century. :p

We'll have to agree to disagree here Bob.

You're still a cash cow to the railways, trouble is the majority of people don't realise their taxes are being handed over to companies like Virgin, Carillion, Amec, Balfour Beatty rather than British Rail.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

I do know this but now I have a modern line that runs on time most of the time. something i did not have under BR. I believe in looking at real facts then projected maybes. ;)

Surely you have some work to do to help keep the prices down and ensure we have a cost effective railway. :p

 

[MK Shrimper]

I do know this but now I have a modern line that runs on time most of the time. something i did not have under BR. I believe in looking at real facts then projected maybes. ;)

Surely you have some work to do to help keep the prices down and ensure we have a cost effective railway. :p

Network Rail have no control over the prices that TOC's set, and having a "cost effective railway" is a pipe dream when shareholders need their pound of flesh I'm afraid.

This old lefty would like to see things run as a service rather than for shareholder profit: The Railways, The Post Office etc.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

having a "cost effective railway" is a pipe dream when shareholders need their pound of flesh I'm afraid.

:net:

:whistling: