Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Tangled up in Blue]

Precisely. The colleague I have mentioned earlier in this thread is fuming at the state his party is in at the moment. If someone who was a party member for over 30 years is this angry about it - assuming he and londonblue aren't the only two - then it strongly suggests there is a problem. One can argue about how severe that problem is, but the fact that there is a problem cannot be denied.

Don't think anybody's stating that there isn't a problem.The key thing is that the problem is being dealt with.

Anybody who thinks that there is more anti-semitism in the Labour party than there is in the Tory party or in UKIP is living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[rigsby]

There's certainly been enough of it in UKIP, for you to know.

You sound desperate, come on Tangled your better than that.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Don't think anybody's stating that there isn't a problem.The key thing is that the problem is being dealt with.

Anybody who thinks that there is more anti-semitism in the Labour party than there is in the Tory party or in UKIP is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Anyone who thinks that the UK political party with the most muslim voters is not the party with the most anti-semitism should start getting their post delivered to said land.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Anyone who thinks that the UK political party with the most muslim voters is not the party with the most anti-semitism should start getting their post delivered to said land.

Labour tend to do well with most ethnic minorities - they are more likely to be working class and young.
The policies of Israel are more likely to be criticised by left wingers and Muslims and that can lead to perceived or real antisemitism. Real antisemitism has to be tackled but we should be careful not to allow at atmosphere to emerge where Israel is beyond criticism.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

and there was me thinking it was Livingstone who took it upon himself to tour the newsrooms to spout his bile to anyone who would listen, but all along it was Murdoch and the hated tory press!
It's a good job we have *** and yourself putting us right on this, otherwise I would just believe what I read in the Corbyn hating press.

Feel free to make smug replies to my posts but if you could refrain from lumping me in with other people's that would be just rad - thanks

 

[Benfleet A1]

You clearly didn't read this quote from The Guardian:-:winking:

"Rallings and Thrasher are academics who specialise in council elections and, in an article in the Sunday Times (paywall), they said that recent council byelections suggest Labour is on course to lose 150 seats."

We will see.

Nope, I didn't read it. Just taking a leaf out of your book.

 

[Benfleet A1]

You sound desperate, come on Tangled your better than that.

No he isn't.

 

[rigsby]

Feel free to make smug replies to my posts but if you could refrain from lumping me in with other people's that would be just rad - thanks

Now we have the zones last two old outdated left wingers stabbing each other in the back. On a thread thats less than a year old. Perfectly mirrors the labour party under Corbyn don't you think.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Now we have the zones last two old outdated left wingers stabbing each other in the back. On a thread thats less than a year old. Perfectly mirrors the labour party under Corbyn don't you think.

Classic Rigsby - no thread is a real thread without his irrelevant interjections

 

[londonblue]

Don't think anybody's stating that there isn't a problem.The key thing is that the problem is being dealt with.

Anybody who thinks that there is more anti-semitism in the Labour party than there is in the Tory party or in UKIP is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Actually, that was the point. The idiot Ken Livingstone (or TIKL from now on) said he had never heard any anti semitism in all the years he's been in the Labour party. He was clearly trying to imply there is no issue.

 

[londonblue]

Labour tend to do well with most ethnic minorities - they are more likely to be working class and young.
The policies of Israel are more likely to be criticised by left wingers and Muslims and that can lead to perceived or real antisemitism. Real antisemitism has to be tackled but we should be careful not to allow at atmosphere to emerge where Israel is beyond criticism.

It's also just as important to ensure Israel doesn't suffer excessive criticism in comparison to other countries that are a lot worse than it is.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It's also just as important to ensure Israel doesn't suffer excessive criticism in comparison to other countries that are a lot worse than it is.

I'd say that Israel is in a fairly unique position where by the state was set set up by the victors after WWII and also that they have so much funding from the USA.
These two factors make people feel like they can have an input that will encourage the state of Israel to behave.
Compare that to Russia who we all know are feeding the war in Syria and creating war in Ukraine - but we stand back because WWIII is a possible outcome. Or China where we have human rights protests when high ranking officials visit but as a rule we have little influence there.


Israel is somewhere that the West can and do have an influence - hence the politically minded spend more time and energy on them than other offenders.

 

[londonblue]

I'd say that Israel is in a fairly unique position where by the state was set set up by the victors after WWII and also that they have so much funding from the USA. These two factors make people feel like they can have an input that will encourage the state of Israel to behave.
Compare that to Russia who we all know are feeding the war in Syria and creating war in Ukraine - but we stand back because WWIII is a possible outcome. Or China where we have human rights protests when high ranking officials visit but as a rule we have little influence there.


Israel is somewhere that the West can and do have an influence - hence the politically minded spend more time and energy on them than other offenders.

Israel isn't the only "manufactured" country in the world. (India and Pakistan's partition immediately springs to mind.) It is, however, the only country whose right to exist is questioned. Moreover, their internal affairs, and how much money they receive from the US doesn't give people the right to question it any more than any other country.

I don't buy the, "we, the West, can and do have an influence, and that is why we obsess over it" argument. I think there is another, more obvious reason.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Israel isn't the only "manufactured" country in the world. (India and Pakistan's partition immediately springs to mind.) It is, however, the only country whose right to exist is questioned. Moreover, their internal affairs, and how much money they receive from the US doesn't give people the right to question it any more than any other country.

I don't buy the, "we, the West, can and do have an influence, and that is why we obsess over it" argument. I think there is another, more obvious reason.

Wether you buy into it or not that is what I think - Israel is a special case because the West created it and the US still fund it.
Why do you think Israel is of special interest then?

 

[londonblue]

Wether you buy into it or not that is what I think - Israel is a special case because the West created it and the US still fund it.
Why do you think Israel is of special interest then?

Because of latent anti-Semitism. For clarity, I'm accusing people of being anti-Semitic, just that they don't realise they're being anti-Semitic.

In the meantime this is worth a read, from the Campaign against Anti Semitism:

Since Jeremy Corbyn announced that his party had commissioned an independent inquiry into antisemitism on Friday, we have been speaking to the media about our misgivings. The inquiry has been nobbled at the outset, and there are four reasons why.

Firstly, the inquiry’s scope only covers the rules in future cases of antisemitism. It will not examine existing cases that remain unaddressed, such as the case of Sir Gerald Kaufman.

Secondly, the Labour Party’s antisemitism problem is not so acute because the rules were too lax; it is acute because the Party’s leadership and structures have failed to identify antisemitism and condemn it. The inquiry should examine the conduct of the Party’s leadership, but it will not.

Thirdly, the Vice Chair of the inquiry is Professor David Feldman, who has already dismissed claims of antisemitism in the Party as “baseless” and “politically motivated” in an open letter. It is ludicrous to appoint as judge and jury someone who has already made up his mind in opposition to the vast majority of British Jews.

Fourthly, the inquiry seeks to concoct its own definition of antisemitism. There is already a definition that is used by the Government, the College of Policing, and even foreign institutions like the EU Parliament and the US Department of State. The definition is called the EUMC definition and it covers precisely the kind of antisemitism that has evaded Labour’s immune system: antisemitism disguised as political discourse. The EUMC definition is not up for debate, but we know that the inquiry will not adopt it because Professor Feldman has argued for its abolition every time he has been given the opportunity.

This broken inquiry is not the answer to Labour’s antisemitism problem.

I hope their cynicism is unfounded, only time will tell.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Shouldn't this thread be re-titled the Israel and anti-semitism thread? :unsure:

It doesn't seem to have a lot to do with Jeremy Corbyn anymore.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Shouldn't this thread be re-titled the Israel and anti-semitism thread? :unsure:

It doesn't seem to have a lot to do with Jeremy Corbyn anymore.

Have been pondering this. It is also 130 pages long :nope:

Will discuss with other mods.

 

[londonblue]

Have been pondering this. It is also 130 pages long :nope:

Will discuss with other mods.

It's relevant in the sense that we're discussing whether or not Corduroy will get a handle on Labour's anti semitism issues...

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Because of latent anti-Semitism. For clarity, I'm accusing people of being anti-Semitic, just that they don't realise they're being anti-Semitic.

In the meantime this is worth a read, from the Campaign against Anti Semitism:



I hope their cynicism is unfounded, only time will tell.

To say that Israel is only of interest to anti-Semites is a crazy negative thing to say and is in a massive insult for those who campaign for the fair treatment of Palestinians.


Yes there are anti-Semites but to say they are the only people with an interest in Israel is a bizarre world view.






The Labour Party investigation is being headed by Shami Chakrabarti which I think is as good an appointment as you could hope for in such things and prejudging the outcome is understandable for specific interest groups but hopefully patience will be rewarded.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Have been pondering this. It is also 130 pages long :nope:

Will discuss with other mods.

Plus the fact there is a different story on Corbyn nearly every other day. Be a shame to stop the fun:winking: