Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Tangled up in Blue]

What a terrible week it's been for the Labour party. If the man this thread is supposed to be about was the strong leader many hoped he would be then the last few pages of this thread wouldn't have been written.

Spoken like a true comrade, of Guido Fawkes,that is.

 

[londonblue]

I have never said that I don't believe that the state of Israel has no right to exist.That is a lie.What I have said is that I believe in a two state solution to the problem of Israel.





As I said,I don't subscribe to what your narrow view of what Zionism consists of.

So you're a zionist then?

You also need to read the true definition of zionism, which is even on the BBC website. Pure and simple, Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to have a homeland. Expanding the scope is done for mostly racist reasons.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Spoken like a true comrade, of Guido Fawkes,that is.

You can't seriously say that it has been a good week for the Labour Party can you? Five Live have just reported that Welsh Labour have asked Jeremy Corbyn not to come to Wales for the remainder of the Welsh Assembly campaign. You might as well say this has been a good week for British Cycling while you're at it.

To be clear - I want to see a strong opposition to this government. They need to be held to account. Yet instead the party is tearing itself apart from within.

 

[rigsby]

So you're a zionist then?

You also need to read the true definition of zionism, which is even on the BBC website. Pure and simple, Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to have a homeland. Expanding the scope is done for mostly racist reasons.

No it isn't. Zionism has always meant different things to different people, including Israelis. To criticise Israel or their expansion plans is not anti-Semitic. If the BBC have decided to become the definition police, that does not mean anyone who has used the word Zionism can now be labelled racist.

I was always against the war on Iraq. So does that make me anti-British. Or racist toward the USA and Israel for their part. I'm quite entitled to want Tony Blair put on trial whether he was British or an Israeli.

Whatever you think of Ken this is another example of a witch hunt using social media and faux outrage. John Mann should be suspended for his behaviour.

 

[rigsby]

You can't seriously say that it has been a good week for the Labour Party can you? Five Live have just reported that Welsh Labour have asked Jeremy Corbyn not to come to Wales for the remainder of the Welsh Assembly campaign. You might as well say this has been a good week for British Cycling while you're at it.

To be clear - I want to see a strong opposition to this government. They need to be held to account. Yet instead the party is tearing itself apart from within.

For both groups, Labour and British Cycling, it appears the wheels have come off.

 

[Napster]

For both groups, Labour and British Cycling, it appears the wheels have come off.

Take my wife. No, seriously. :smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So you're a zionist then?

You also need to read the true definition of zionism, which is even on the BBC website. Pure and simple, Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to have a homeland. Expanding the scope is done for mostly racist reasons.

I've already made it clear that I believe in a two state solution to the problem of Israel.And I reject your simplistic,historical definition of Zionism.

While I've read the BBC's definition, I think a much better one can be found on Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism



You might want to think about these two quotes:-"

"In 1975, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution that designated Zionism as "a form of racism and racial discrimination". The resolution was repealed in 1991 by replacing Resolution 3379 with United Nations General Assembly Resolution 46/86. Within the context of the Arab–Israeli conflict, Zionism is viewed by critics as a system that fosters apartheid and racism."

"On the other hand, anti-Zionist writers such as Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Michael Marder, and Tariq Ali have argued that the characterization of anti-Zionism as antisemitic is inaccurate, sometimes obscures legitimate criticism of Israel's policies and actions, and is sometimes a political ploy to stifle criticism of Israel."

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You can't seriously say that it has been a good week for the Labour Party can you? Five Live have just reported that Welsh Labour have asked Jeremy Corbyn not to come to Wales for the remainder of the Welsh Assembly campaign. You might as well say this has been a good week for British Cycling while you're at it.

To be clear - I want to see a strong opposition to this government. They need to be held to account. Yet instead the party is tearing itself apart from within.

No I can't.

In answer to your second point,it's fairly obvious, (as I've suggested previously), that the current row about anti-semitism in the Labour party, has been blown up out of all proportion, by people who are hostile to Corbyn's leadership.

 

[rigsby]

Take my wife. No, seriously. :smile:

I all ready have thanks:winking:

 

[callan]

No I can't.

In answer to your second point,it's fairly obvious, (as I've suggested previously), that the current row about anti-semitism in the Labour party, has been blown up out of all proportion, by people who are hostile to Corbyn's leadership.

Is this a Blairite conspiracy?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Is this a Blairite conspiracy?

Something akin to that. :winking:

 

[Benfleet A1]

No I can't.

In answer to your second point,it's fairly obvious, (as I've suggested previously), that the current row about anti-semitism in the Labour party, has been blown up out of all proportion, by people who are hostile to Corbyn's leadership.

Who is blowing anti-semitism akin to racism within the Labour Party out of proportion? Do tell.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

No one has really answered why Livingston took it upon himself to tour the newsrooms defending Naz Shah in the first place - why did he feel the need to do it - or was he asked?
But never mind any of that, what you have to ask IMO is why he starts spouting off about Hitler when speaking about Israel? What a f****** idiot - what did he think was going to happen? Or is this just a Blairite conspiracy to take down nice Mr Jaw Jaw.

 

[londonblue]

No it isn't. Zionism has always meant different things to different people, including Israelis. To criticise Israel or their expansion plans is not anti-Semitic. If the BBC have decided to become the definition police, that does not mean anyone who has used the word Zionism can now be labelled racist.

I was always against the war on Iraq. So does that make me anti-British. Or racist toward the USA and Israel for their part. I'm quite entitled to want Tony Blair put on trial whether he was British or an Israeli.

Whatever you think of Ken this is another example of a witch hunt using social media and faux outrage. John Mann should be suspended for his behaviour.

Correct. But that has nothing to do with Zionism. You'll find just as many Zionist Israelis who oppose that as support it. The reason is because it has nothing to do with Zionism. When I mentioned the BBC, I was explaining it is that easy to find the true definition.

 

[londonblue]

I've already made it clear that I believe in a two state solution to the problem of Israel.And I reject your simplistic,historical definition of Zionism.

While I've read the BBC's definition, I think a much better one can be found on Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism



You might want to think about these two quotes:-"

"In 1975, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution that designated Zionism as "a form of racism and racial discrimination". The resolution was repealed in 1991 by replacing Resolution 3379 with United Nations General Assembly Resolution 46/86. Within the context of the Arab–Israeli conflict, Zionism is viewed by critics as a system that fosters apartheid and racism."

"On the other hand, anti-Zionist writers such as Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Michael Marder, and Tariq Ali have argued that the characterization of anti-Zionism as antisemitic is inaccurate, sometimes obscures legitimate criticism of Israel's policies and actions, and is sometimes a political ploy to stifle criticism of Israel."

You can reject all you like, but it happens to be the case that Zionism is simply the belief that Israel has a right to exist.

You could ask me if I'm a Zionist and the answer would be yes. You could then ask me if I was a Southend United fan, and the answer would be yes. That doesn't mean that you can extrapolate that all Zionists are Southend United fans. In the same way you can't extrapolate that all Zionists are right wing zealots. There's plenty of left wing Zionists. Even in this country we have the Labour Friends of Israel, and the Conservative Friends of Israel. You can't tell me that both sides have the same view of the Israeli government, but they are both Zionist because they believe Israel has a right to exist.

I don't particularly care how the UN defines Zionism because they didn't invent it. Theodore Hertzl did long before the UN even existed. The UN also passed a resolution blaming Israel for Palestinian domestic violence not all that long ago. They don't really have any credibility I'm afraid.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Read this by Gaby Hinsliff in The Guardian and for some reason it reminded me a bit of this thread....

"But there is another possible explanation, and that’s the belief found close to many leftwing hearts that they, and they alone, are the good guys – the champions of equality and fairness – and therefore incapable of prejudice. They don’t need to question their assumptions, or take a long hard look in the mirror, because the racists are the other guys."

Yes, I read that as well and thought of certain posters.

I'm just surprised it was posted by youself and not the Grauniad's SZ RSS feed.

You can't seriously say that it has been a good week for the Labour Party can you? Five Live have just reported that Welsh Labour have asked Jeremy Corbyn not to come to Wales for the remainder of the Welsh Assembly campaign. You might as well say this has been a good week for British Cycling while you're at it.

To be clear - I want to see a strong opposition to this government. They need to be held to account. Yet instead the party is tearing itself apart from within.

The Tories are tearing themselves apart over Europe; Labour over Israel. Looks like the Lib Dems had the right idea to make themselves so small they don't have room for splits.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The Tories are tearing themselves apart over Europe; Labour over Israel. Looks like the Lib Dems had the right idea to make themselves so small they don't have room for splits.

Although on second thoughts it doesn't work for UKIP who have managed to have more factions than policies or MPs.

 

[londonblue]

Maybe Corduroy is starting to get a handle on anti-Semitism in the Labour party, but this is still worth a read:

Telegraph

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Maybe Corduroy is starting to get a handle on anti-Semitism in the Labour party, but this is still worth a read:

Telegraph

This worth a read too

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...mitism-and-where-jeremy-corbyn-goes-from-here

 

[dloman]

This worth a read too

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...mitism-and-where-jeremy-corbyn-goes-from-here

Actually *** trying to to take this from a neutral position, do you feel this has harmed the Labour party?

And from a less neutral position the polls are suggesting that Corbyn could be the first opposition leader to actually lose seats at a local council election, how would that stand with the party faithful?

These are genuine questions and I know polls can be wrong.