Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Shrimpers are Magic]

It's OK, he'll be running the country in 5 years time.
Ha ha, what an utter ****.

utter **** who people will vote for - remember that.

 

[Supernaut]

utter **** who people will vote for - remember that.

Outside of the south? Can't see it myself. Time will tell.

 

[superblue24]

Poor ol' Grandad

 

[southendkid]

View attachment 3731Poor ol' Grandad

That's a bit misleading, every question only asks if Corbyn has made Labour better/worse. If you read between the lines of that graph 74% of people have not changed their likelihood to vote for the Labour party since Corbyn's appointment.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Watched Alan Johnson on This Week earlier, a man much more pleasing on the eye and ear than the vile Diane Abbott who used to ruin the programme. He was struggling to find positives to say about Corbyn, saying he is a "nice man" about the best he came up with.
Life long Labour supporter Mick Hucknall also on tonight. He made a good point about the 21 MP's who abstained the other night saying the likes of Corbyn and Abbott have made careers of not towing the party line but now insist everyone else does. Basically, don't do as I do, do as I say.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Watched Alan Johnson on This Week earlier, a man much more pleasing on the eye and ear than the vile Diane Abbott who used to ruin the programme. He was struggling to find positives to say about Corbyn, saying he is a "nice man" about the best he came up with.
Life long Labour supporter Mick Hucknall also on tonight. He made a good point about the 21 MP's who abstained the other night saying the likes of Corbyn and Abbott have made careers of not towing the party line but now insist everyone else does. Basically, don't do as I do, do as I say.

It does rather depend on what it is you are not towing the line on.

I don't know how to do the imbedded tweet thing but:

@BBCNewsnight: When Labour gov proposed Fiscal Responsibility Act, in Jan 2010, George Osborne was scathing. Take a look #newsnight
https://t.co/2ke7on1Loj

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Consider the UK leaves the EU, might a french (or chinese) owned company put up prices for our imports of energy (or steel) while keeping lower prices for itself; thus subsidising its own industries in an unfair way? -=trade war.
Last time I checked ships, tanks, cars etc had a lot of metal in them and if we (the UK) don't produce any then isn't that lowering our ability to do so and putting us in a vulnerable and weaker position?
Would we allow China access to military bases carte blanche? I think not, yet allowing them to build power stations that rely on 100% upkeep and safety when they have huge explosions (remember that) in their dockyards, terrible safety, human rights and working issues (slave/prison camps).
YB, very often you write good stuff but the trend of taking the money NOW and not looking to the future of the UK is not a welcome trait of the current politicos (including Labour) that I agree with.

Apologies in being late in responding to this. I refute the allegation of writing good stuff.

The UK has been running a trade deficit for years now. We import more than we export. So if other countries try and raise the prices of our goods we can retaliate harder than they can. That's a disincentive to start trade a war. It's better for everyone involved to try and co-operate than get into tit for tat battles.

I want to see China improve their human rights record, but I believe this is most likely by exposing the Chinese middle class to Western values. Work closer with them and when people visit they'll see how much better it is to be ruled by the rule of law, they'll then want it and agitate for it.

China want to get involved in these infrastructure projects across the world. If Chernobyl Mk II happens on their watch (or even a Fukushima) let's just say that that's not going to be good for business. They know that. Add in contractual liability and it would be very much not in their interest to cut corners.

FWIW I'm pro-Europe and want us to be taking a bigger role in driving the direction the EU goes in. That's where I believe the UK's long term future is. I'm very much looking towards it, towards a globalised world.

The anti-Europe posturing to appease the xenophobes damages our influence in Europe.

I also think that some of these proposed power deals are on ridiculous commercial terms. The EDF one was reputedly looking at guaranteeing the price of energy at 2-3 times current prices. I don't know what will happen to energy prices, but neither do the government. Whilst they may go up there's also a reasonable chance that they plummet so that deal seems ludicrous. If the Chinese one undercuts that and can be used to bargain down the price that is a good thing in my books. I'm pretty sure that's why Osborne was so keen to get the Chinese involved so we can play them off against the French.

If it's a French/Chinese/UK company who builds it, doesn't really matter to me. What matters is the deal that's reached is a reasonable one and doesn't screw us over for the political expediency of keeping things off-balance sheet.

 

[rigsby]

Apologies in being late in responding to this. I refute the allegation of writing good stuff.

The UK has been running a trade deficit for years now. We import more than we export. So if other countries try and raise the prices of our goods we can retaliate harder than they can. That's a disincentive to start trade a war. It's better for everyone involved to try and co-operate than get into tit for tat battles.

I want to see China improve their human rights record, but I believe this is most likely by exposing the Chinese middle class to Western values. Work closer with them and when people visit they'll see how much better it is to be ruled by the rule of law, they'll then want it and agitate for it.

China want to get involved in these infrastructure projects across the world. If Chernobyl Mk II happens on their watch (or even a Fukushima) let's just say that that's not going to be good for business. They know that. Add in contractual liability and it would be very much not in their interest to cut corners.

FWIW I'm pro-Europe and want us to be taking a bigger role in driving the direction the EU goes in. That's where I believe the UK's long term future is. I'm very much looking towards it, towards a globalised world.

The anti-Europe posturing to appease the xenophobes damages our influence in Europe.

I also think that some of these proposed power deals are on ridiculous commercial terms. The EDF one was reputedly looking at guaranteeing the price of energy at 2-3 times current prices. I don't know what will happen to energy prices, but neither do the government. Whilst they may go up there's also a reasonable chance that they plummet so that deal seems ludicrous. If the Chinese one undercuts that and can be used to bargain down the price that is a good thing in my books. I'm pretty sure that's why Osborne was so keen to get the Chinese involved so we can play them off against the French.

If it's a French/Chinese/UK company who builds it, doesn't really matter to me. What matters is the deal that's reached is a reasonable one and doesn't screw us over for the political expediency of keeping things off-balance sheet.

A bloke called Adolf tried that idea a few years back. Never worked out for him.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Apologies in being late in responding to this. I refute the allegation of writing good stuff.

The UK has been running a trade deficit for years now. We import more than we export. So if other countries try and raise the prices of our goods we can retaliate harder than they can. That's a disincentive to start trade a war. It's better for everyone involved to try and co-operate than get into tit for tat battles.

I want to see China improve their human rights record, but I believe this is most likely by exposing the Chinese middle class to Western values. Work closer with them and when people visit they'll see how much better it is to be ruled by the rule of law, they'll then want it and agitate for it.

China want to get involved in these infrastructure projects across the world. If Chernobyl Mk II happens on their watch (or even a Fukushima) let's just say that that's not going to be good for business. They know that. Add in contractual liability and it would be very much not in their interest to cut corners.

FWIW I'm pro-Europe and want us to be taking a bigger role in driving the direction the EU goes in. That's where I believe the UK's long term future is. I'm very much looking towards it, towards a globalised world.

The anti-Europe posturing to appease the xenophobes damages our influence in Europe.

I also think that some of these proposed power deals are on ridiculous commercial terms. The EDF one was reputedly looking at guaranteeing the price of energy at 2-3 times current prices. I don't know what will happen to energy prices, but neither do the government. Whilst they may go up there's also a reasonable chance that they plummet so that deal seems ludicrous. If the Chinese one undercuts that and can be used to bargain down the price that is a good thing in my books. I'm pretty sure that's why Osborne was so keen to get the Chinese involved so we can play them off against the French.

If it's a French/Chinese/UK company who builds it, doesn't really matter to me. What matters is the deal that's reached is a reasonable one and doesn't screw us over for the political expediency of keeping things off-balance sheet.

Shamelessly diverting the thread slightly but when you lived in Hong Kong, did you get much bearing on the Chinese human rights issue or was it ignored/covered up/ tolerated, etc. Genuine question Matt as I know you told me once that you lived there but I forget how old you were at the time (you probably told me that as well but I was no doubt drunk as a lord or at least, well on the way) I find first hand experience far better than boring newspaper links.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

We clearly live in interesting times.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34558956

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Interesting times indeed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...emy-Corbyn-campaign-part-funded-by-Hamas.html

 

[steveo]

Interesting times indeed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...emy-Corbyn-campaign-part-funded-by-Hamas.html

Give the bloke a chance mate, now the IRA are not killing so many its only fair he should be allowed to support a different bunch of murderers.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Shamelessly diverting the thread slightly but when you lived in Hong Kong, did you get much bearing on the Chinese human rights issue or was it ignored/covered up/ tolerated, etc. Genuine question Matt as I know you told me once that you lived there but I forget how old you were at the time (you probably told me that as well but I was no doubt drunk as a lord or at least, well on the way) I find first hand experience far better than boring newspaper links.

It was about 10 years ago I lived there.

ORM will be able to tell you about things more recently, but the big thing when I was there was the push for democracy (which I think goes hand in hand with the human rights issue). This flared up to an even greater extent again last year.

Within HK you have sources which pretty much just parrot the official line and those that are independent and will question these things and report on scandals. Unsurprisingly the former are more likely to be in Mandarin and the latter in English. I'd say there was a split between the Mainland (who tended to be very accepting of government authority) and those from Hong Kong (who were very sceptical). But that distinction will get more blurred as mainlanders spend more time in HK, travelling to Europe, the US and probably even around Asia. I've a mate who married a Chinese girl from Nanjing. She studied over here and is far more Western in her outlook than her parents. She wouldn't stand for some of the human rights excesses, but I suspect her parents (I only briefly met them at the wedding, I'm going on the stories my mate tells about his in-laws) would. Since her teenage years she's had the internet and that more global outlook that that allows. That generation gap thing is quite common. My best mate in HK when I lived there was that much more Western than his parents (who IIRC had come over from the mainland in the 60s).

But it's important to remember Asia in general has changed a hell of a lot. It's grown up in the last decade and a bit (I first visited Asia in 2002). It's pretty much gone from 3rd world (not so much HK, Singapore and the cities which were already fairly developed but much of the rest of it) to being somewhere like Spain - but obviously with a higher standard of English as a foreign language teaching. The roads are no longer dust tracks, people drive new cars, they all have mobile phones. I expect China's done the same. In 2002 you could see that was already happening in Shanghai, in Beijing but the rural areas were well behind and I think what's happened since (I haven't actually returned to the mainland in that period) is that this development has spread to the rural areas. When I visited no-one spoke any English outside of Beijing and Shanghai, but now you've got loads more English speakers - the Olympics was actually really important in accelerating this, as is IT as lots of programming is done in English - and a far less insular outlook. I think the kids growing up today will be that much more looking at Western society and wanting the freedoms we take for granted. There will be bumps along the path, but when you think China was still a fairly closed off society in the mid 90s it's come a huge way in a very short period of time. Once the generation that grow up in the 90s or 00s is the one running China, that's when I think we'll see the "great leap" forward in Chinese human rights. Until then we'll probably be scratching around the edges.

 

[callan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34625487

From the Link;

Lord Grabiner said Labour was now in "disarray" and that he could not "square [staying] with my conscience".
He added: "I have nothing in common whatever with Mr Corbyn and I don't believe we are ever going to win an election."
He also said he was particularly concerned about John McDonnell's appointment as shadow chancellor.
"I am concerned with the economic stuff. I am really concerned with the shadow chancellor," he declared.

Not good at all.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34625487

From the Link;

Lord Grabiner said Labour was now in "disarray" and that he could not "square [staying] with my conscience".
He added: "I have nothing in common whatever with Mr Corbyn and I don't believe we are ever going to win an election."
He also said he was particularly concerned about John McDonnell's appointment as shadow chancellor.
"I am concerned with the economic stuff. I am really concerned with the shadow chancellor," he declared.

Not good at all.

On the contrary.He hasn't voted in the Lords since 2013.Good riddance.

 

[callan]

On the contrary.He hasn't voted in the Lords since 2013.Good riddance.

So it's a good thing then, that a second Labour whip has resigned?????

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So it's a good thing then, that a second Labour whip has resigned?????

Both peers were clearly out of touch and out of sympathy with the recent changes in the Labour party.

Now if there were any sign of a mass defecion of elected Labour MP's I might be a little bit more worried.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It was about 10 years ago I lived there.

ORM will be able to tell you about things more recently, but the big thing when I was there was the push for democracy (which I think goes hand in hand with the human rights issue). This flared up to an even greater extent again last year.

Within HK you have sources which pretty much just parrot the official line and those that are independent and will question these things and report on scandals. Unsurprisingly the former are more likely to be in Mandarin and the latter in English. I'd say there was a split between the Mainland (who tended to be very accepting of government authority) and those from Hong Kong (who were very sceptical). But that distinction will get more blurred as mainlanders spend more time in HK, travelling to Europe, the US and probably even around Asia. I've a mate who married a Chinese girl from Nanjing. She studied over here and is far more Western in her outlook than her parents. She wouldn't stand for some of the human rights excesses, but I suspect her parents (I only briefly met them at the wedding, I'm going on the stories my mate tells about his in-laws) would. Since her teenage years she's had the internet and that more global outlook that that allows. That generation gap thing is quite common. My best mate in HK when I lived there was that much more Western than his parents (who IIRC had come over from the mainland in the 60s).

But it's important to remember Asia in general has changed a hell of a lot. It's grown up in the last decade and a bit (I first visited Asia in 2002). It's pretty much gone from 3rd world (not so much HK, Singapore and the cities which were already fairly developed but much of the rest of it) to being somewhere like Spain - but obviously with a higher standard of English as a foreign language teaching. The roads are no longer dust tracks, people drive new cars, they all have mobile phones. I expect China's done the same. In 2002 you could see that was already happening in Shanghai, in Beijing but the rural areas were well behind and I think what's happened since (I haven't actually returned to the mainland in that period) is that this development has spread to the rural areas. When I visited no-one spoke any English outside of Beijing and Shanghai, but now you've got loads more English speakers - the Olympics was actually really important in accelerating this, as is IT as lots of programming is done in English - and a far less insular outlook. I think the kids growing up today will be that much more looking at Western society and wanting the freedoms we take for granted. There will be bumps along the path, but when you think China was still a fairly closed off society in the mid 90s it's come a huge way in a very short period of time. Once the generation that grow up in the 90s or 00s is the one running China, that's when I think we'll see the "great leap" forward in Chinese human rights. Until then we'll probably be scratching around the edges.

As it happens, I know quite a few British Council employees who regularly teach in HK in the summer-especially since the crisis hit.

Nothing special about them I'm afraid.

Personally, the idea of working in or even visiting Asia has never appealed to me nor my wife.Probably because we're both proud Europeans.

Frankly,the idea that Spain is something of a "3rd World" country,or anything like it, is just "pig"* ignorant as well as insulting.

*http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/oct/25/how-david-cameron-counts-his-toes#img-1

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

As it happens, I know quite a few British Council employees who regularly teach in HK in the summer-especially since the crisis hit.

Nothing special about them I'm afraid.

Personally, the idea of working in or even visiting Asia has never appealed to me nor my wife.Probably because we're both proud Europeans.

Frankly,the idea that Spain is something of a "3rd World" country,or anything like it, is just "pig"* ignorant as well as insulting.

*http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/oct/25/how-david-cameron-counts-his-toes#img-1

What an utterly bizarre thing to say?

 

[Benfleet A1]

What an utterly bizarre thing to say?

Not really, he just wants to be the centre of attention, as usual.