Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

This is an odd one. I mean sure, I’ve got no doubts it would get backing, because It’s Brexit in name only. But we’d be worse off than pre-Brexit, right?

I get it, you’re a champion for Corbyn, but are you pulling that much for him, that you don’t mind the country being worse off, as long as it gives the man a hollow victory?

And that’s before we take into account the ideas that Corbyn is anti-EU, and this is just another ploy to let the Tories hang themselves, so he can edge closer to power.

Your first sentence means Corbyn is anti-Brexit and your last states he is pro-Brexit (anti-EU) - how do you marry those two up?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

This is an odd one. I mean sure, I’ve got no doubts it would get backing, because It’s Brexit in name only. But we’d be worse off than pre-Brexit, right?

I get it, you’re a champion for Corbyn, but are you pulling that much for him, that you don’t mind the country being worse off, as long as it gives the man a hollow victory?

And that’s before we take into account the ideas that Corbyn is anti-EU, and this is just another ploy to let the Tories hang themselves, so he can edge closer to power.

Actually, it represents a so-called soft Brexit rather than a hard one.While we would most certainly be worse off than our current status of full members of the EU,Labour's 6th test that we would be no worse off outside the EU than as a full member,has been quietly dropped.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Gerry Adams was an IRA brigade commander.... 100% fact.

McGuiness was the IRA brigade commander of Londonderry. He fired the first shots at the British Army on Bloody Sunday....100 % fact.

The difference for both of them moving from the IRA to SF was instead of committing murder and planting bombs, they ordered the murders and funded the bombs

No amo

Please provide a link for this outrageous lie.

Your comments about Martin McGuiness, while in the public domain, have never been proven.

 

[GBJ]

In any post Brexit scenario the UK will be worse off.

That’s an opinion, not a fact.

That's what the majority voted for and everyone will have to live with the consequences of being conned by the false promises of the Brexiteers. Corbyn's plans are a damage limitation exercise to get the least bad outcome whilst respecting the referendum result.

It’s not respecting the result though. We’d still be in the customs union, we’d still have free movement & we’d still pay into the EU.

People voted out, to be out of those specific EU factors.

 

[blues exile]

That’s an opinion, not a fact.



It’s not respecting the result though. We’d still be in the customs union, we’d still have free movement & we’d still pay into the EU.

People voted out, to be out of those specific EU factors.

Had the referendum actually spelled out some of these issues the result would likely have been different. As it is, it's only guesswork that's what people wanted. If it's BINO that's the least worst outcome.

 

[RHB]

That’s an opinion, not a fact.



It’s not respecting the result though. We’d still be in the customs union, we’d still have free movement & we’d still pay into the EU.

People voted out, to be out of those specific EU factors.

Don't forget that a lot also voted leave to keep those pesky immigrants worldwide out of the UK. (said in a mildly cynical tone)

 

[GBJ]

Your first sentence means Corbyn is anti-Brexit and your last states he is pro-Brexit (anti-EU) - how do you marry those two up?

As I mentioned previously, I believe the man is a wolf in sheeps clothing, who’s only goal is to become PM.

We know he’s doesn’t like the EU, and would prefer out of it. But he’s willing to say & do anything, if he thinks it will edge him closer to power.

Do you think he wants to part of the EU?

 

[GBJ]

Had the referendum actually spelled out some of these issues the result would likely have been different. As it is, it's only guesswork that's what people wanted. If it's BINO that's the least worst outcome.

Eh? You’re basing that assumption from your own point of view, not the majority of Britain.

It’s guesswork to suggest People voted for Brexit due to their concerns over he lack of magic unicorns.

It’s factually accurate to suggest that people voted in favour of Brexit, for the reasons I’ve given.

 

[GBJ]

Actually, it represents a so-called soft Brexit rather than a hard one.

A soft Brexit doesn’t exist, as it appeases nobody, regardless of how you want to describe it.

I can put a slice of bread on my head & call myself a sandwich, but it doesn’t make me one. Calling this a soft-Brexit, doesn’t make it Brexit.

QUOTE="Tangled up in Blue, post: 2113821, member: 755"]While we would most certainly be worse off than our current status of full members of the EU,Labour's 6th test that we would be no worse off outside the EU than as a full member,has been quietly dropped.[/QUOTE]

Ah, and for how long would we be worse off for?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

A soft Brexit doesn’t exist, as it appeases nobody, regardless of how you want to describe it.

I can put a slice of bread on my head & call myself a sandwich, but it doesn’t make me one. Calling this a soft-Brexit, doesn’t make it Brexit.

QUOTE="Tangled up in Blue, post: 2113821, member: 755"]While we would most certainly be worse off than our current status of full members of the EU,Labour's 6th test that we would be no worse off outside the EU than as a full member,has been quietly dropped.

Ah, and for how long would we be worse off for?[/QUOTE]

Yawn.We've been through all this before.A soft Brexit might well be the best Brexit deal that you Brexiteers will get.It certainly makes sense to me,which is precisely why I call myself a reluctant leaver.Remember that 48% voted Remain.

Haven't seen any reliable forecasters who will stick their neck out for longer than a year.FWIW, my guess would be at least 10 years if not more but ,of course,I have no evidence for that.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

As I mentioned previously, I believe the man is a wolf in sheeps clothing, who’s only goal is to become PM.

We know he’s doesn’t like the EU, and would prefer out of it. But he’s willing to say & do anything, if he thinks it will edge him closer to power.

Do you think he wants to part of the EU?

He had better have the goal of being PM or he is in the wrong job. 40% of voters had that goal in 2017.
EU - he has been a long term critic, but most large institutions are easily criticised and EU is massive.
I'm pretty sure his thinking is that if the type of Leave we get fits in with ERG then it's very much not the type he would want. He is probably thinking that two and a half years have been wasted going round in circles and to leave with such a lack of preparation (especially with no deal) will be a disaster. His letter to May contains terms that are more likely to be agreeable to EU, more likely to get the backing of Parliament, and less divisive for the country as 52 or 48 are likely to be dead against this than the options May is likely to come up with.
It's pragmatism, which is one of the things that has been lacking in the current government.

 

[blues exile]

Two and a half years of nebulous waffle from May resulting in stalemate. One letter from Corbyn, result - progress might be possible.

 

[GBJ]

Yawn.We've been through all this before.

And yet you still don’t get it

A soft Brexit might well be the best Brexit deal that you Brexiteers will get.

You have to stop using your own personal opinion as the starting point, on the scale. There is a chance you may be right, but there’s just as equal that you’re wrong.

 

[GBJ]

Two and a half years of nebulous waffle from May resulting in stalemate. One letter from Corbyn, result - progress might be possible.

Progress which suits the EU, not us.

Excuse me if I don’t get all giddy.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Progress which suits the EU, not us.

Excuse me if I don’t get all giddy.

If it only suited the EU then UK Parliament could vote against it. If there is an end deal it will be by agreement on both sides.
Most likely scenario is that May won't take up Corbyn's points, but it should at least make her realise that her current option is going nowhere and is not the only option.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And yet you still don’t get it



You have to stop using your own personal opinion as the starting point, on the scale. There is a chance you may be right, but there’s just as equal that you’re wrong.

There's always a chance,I suppose ,that you'll get your wish for a no deal Brexit at the end of March but I don't think so somehow.I really don't believe even the UK's politicians are daft enough to impose that on the British people.

Btw,why are we discussing this on the Jeremy Corbyn thread?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The degree of sournessness on the face of May can surely only be matched by the contortions Corbyn has produced to appear not to come down on one side or the other. Although, when push comes to shove the latter leans more to the BINO line than to the apparent beliefs of his own membership. Now he has leaned a little too far to the left, a plate or two on the right risks falling. I don't know whether he'll be able (or wants) to redress the balance to avoid losses. What's the harm in losing a few 'pinkoes' any way..............those not of pure blood, and all that!
Who knows whether May's brain-numbing, robotic, repeating of the same mantra will not win through in the end. Presented for a vote in mid-March, hard Brexiters may in the end fall in line, prefering that Brexit to no Brexit at all. I'm reasonably convinced that parliament won't let us crash out with no deal, even though that is the most logical conclusion from the referendum result. I think I will be in agreement with many of the Labour supporters on here when I reiterate the fact that we were lied to in 2016. A deal on the terms suggested by the Leavers was NEVER possible, so the only real Brexit deliverable was a hard Brexit, with all its pain and consequential harmful effects.
Corbyn knows full well that his latest conditions are never going to be accepted and nor should they be. The 52% didn't vote to leave only to find us still tied to the EU but without a voice. The 48% didn't vote for a deal which is worse than the one we have at the moment. NO ONE would be happy with what Corbyn has proposed. NO ONE, as far as I understand, voted for us to be not only to be in a worse position (neither in nor out) but also worse off. You better hope that it is never agreed because if ever Labour were a handmaiden to such a monstrosity, I believe they would pay a very heavy price some time in the future.
So, I await for someone to ask, what is my solution? Well I ain't really got one and worse still, I doubt there is one. I didn't get us into this bloody mess. Maybe in the end this sorry situation will have to be handed back to the people. With all its faults this may be the best solution.................better than a deal which is less worse than the others.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The degree of sournessness on the face of May can surely only be matched by the contortions Corbyn has produced to appear not to come down on one side or the other. Although, when push comes to shove the latter leans more to the BINO line than to the apparent beliefs of his own membership. Now he has leaned a little too far to the left, a plate or two on the right risks falling. I don't know whether he'll be able (or wants) to redress the balance to avoid losses. What's the harm in losing a few 'pinkoes' any way..............those not of pure blood, and all that!
Who knows whether May's brain-numbing, robotic, repeating of the same mantra will not win through in the end. Presented for a vote in mid-March, hard Brexiters may in the end fall in line, prefering that Brexit to no Brexit at all. I'm reasonably convinced that parliament won't let us crash out with no deal, even though that is the most logical conclusion from the referendum result. I think I will be in agreement with many of the Labour supporters on here when I reiterate the fact that we were lied to in 2016. A deal on the terms suggested by the Leavers was NEVER possible, so the only real Brexit deliverable was a hard Brexit, with all its pain and consequential harmful effects.
Corbyn knows full well that his latest conditions are never going to be accepted and nor should they be. The 52% didn't vote to leave only to find us still tied to the EU but without a voice. The 48% didn't vote for a deal which is worse than the one we have at the moment. NO ONE would be happy with what Corbyn has proposed. NO ONE, as far as I understand, voted for us to be not only to be in a worse position (neither in nor out) but also worse off. You better hope that it is never agreed because if ever Labour were a handmaiden to such a monstrosity, I believe they would pay a very heavy price some time in the future.
So, I await for someone to ask, what is my solution? Well I ain't really got one and worse still, I doubt there is one. I didn't get us into this bloody mess. Maybe in the end this sorry situation will have to be handed back to the people. With all its faults this may be the best solution.................better than a deal which is less worse than the others.

Bearing in mind the referendum result was 52/48 not coming down too hard on one side or the other seems like the sensible way forward.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Yes, I can hear the groans from Labour supporters and the usual riposte........i.e. "Look how far we were behind in 2017 and look at the result we achieved." Yet this is truly AWFUL. With a terribly pathetic and incompetent Conservative government, Corbyn has a 1% WORSE dissatisfied rating than the government..............72% dissatisfied!!! Labour we have a BIG problem here............or are some of you too blind to see? This is written by someone who is desperately worried at the risk of another bloody Tory government being elected. I've read people suggesting that a future Labour programme is not extreme. Well, if it's not the programme,........................................................ it must be the man.


With the usual caveat about the unreliability of polls, the London Evening Standard reports that Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership ratings have crashed to their worst level yet as a result of Brexit.

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB



https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1093840319051911168



Corbyn's net Ipsos-MORI satisfaction ratings drop from a net minus 32% to 55%. Chart from @standardnews



42

12:53 PM - Feb 8, 2019​

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1093840319051911168





The poll also found that:

• The proportion of the public satisfied with Corbyn’s performance has dropped to 17% per cent — the lowest figure recorded by any Labour leader apart from Michael Foot.
• The proportion dissatisfied with the Labour leader has risen to 72%.
• Under half of Labour voters (44%) are happy with him.

​

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Bearing in mind the referendum result was 52/48 not coming down too hard on one side or the other seems like the sensible way forward.

The idea of pushing on with a solution which is a bad one and has, I would assume, virtually no liking from either side and has an air of obstinacy about it parallel to May's, "my deal is the only deal." We're in the politics of the madhouse! In trying to be too reasonable we arrive at a true judgement of Solomon.