Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[londonblue]

I've not missed the point I disagree with it. Arming anti Semitics is as bad policy as you can get - and the fact that is a continuation of policy is no excuse.

What article on Militant? No, I've not read an article on Militant for many years.


BoD have seemingly been accepted as the voice of the Jewish community but that doesn't seem valid to me - it's like the Conservatives being accepted as the voice of....whatever we are.

It's totally valid, or have you taken it upon yourself to dictate to the Jewish community who they are allowed to say represents them?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It's totally valid, or have you taken it upon yourself to dictate to the Jewish community who they are allowed to say represents them?

Nope. As you well know I am saying the complete opposite of that. I'm saying we shouldn't assume who represents the Jewish community. There is no UK wide vote for Jews to elect representatives so we would be foolish to accept that what seems like a right leaning organisation should be accepted as speaking on behalf of the Jewish community. Jews are disparate in their views and outlook as any other religious and non religious group is. Attitude towards the conduct of Israel is going to be a major thing that divides opinions among Jews and DoD seem firmly on one side of that.

 

[londonblue]

Nope. As you well know I am saying the complete opposite of that. I'm saying we shouldn't assume who represents the Jewish community. There is no UK wide vote for Jews to elect representatives so we would be foolish to accept that what seems like a right leaning organisation should be accepted as speaking on behalf of the Jewish community. Jews are disparate in their views and outlook as any other religious and non religious group is. Attitude towards the conduct of Israel is going to be a major thing that divides opinions among Jews and DoD seem firmly on one side of that.

The BoD represent the mainstream Jewish community. There is no debate here. They have done for years and years and years. I simply don't understand why you want to argue with that.

You might as well argue that black is white.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The BoD represent the mainstream Jewish community. There is no debate here. They have done for years and years and years. I simply don't understand why you want to argue with that.

You might as well argue that black is white.

Who says they represent mainstream UK Judaism?

Israel troops shot dead 16 unarmed protesters and BoD blame Hamas. Is that mainstream? Sounds sectarian to me.

 

[Gremlin]

The brackets were there to exclude extraneous information.

One at the beginning and another at the end would've been sufficient.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

One at the beginning and another at the end would've been sufficient.

Arrgh.I see the grammar (and punctuation) police are alive and well on SZ.:winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Thursday 26th May.
Day after Mrs May was on the ropes at PMQs - repeatedly from Corbyn's questions plus Yvette Cooper and Vince Cable. Footnote to an article on Amber Rudd page 4 of the Metro.


No other mention of Windrush - currently the biggest story in UK politics.


Page 2 of the Metro is a big Labour / anti-Semitism headline.
Big photo of Ruth Smeeth surrounded by MPs on the right of the Labour Party - Streeting, Coyle, Philips, etc walking past one 'reinstate Marc Wadsworth' placard.


Numerous quotes have been banded around such as Streeting 'that it was necessary to accompany her through a protest is an appalling state of affairs'. And agreed there should not be a protest outside a hearing - but all of the footage I have seen the protest in support of Wadsworth was tiny and outnumbered by the amount of MPs walking in with Ruth.


Now I had largely believed what we were told - that at the unveiling of the Chakrabarti report Ruth Smeeth was the victim of anti-Semitic abuse and ran out crying and Corbyn did nothing. That narrative has been repeated over and over and has become accepted as fact.


Yesterday for the first time I saw footage of that meeting. The report was to deal with rooting out all forms of racism. Wadsworth had literature that was stating that BAME members needed recognition and that the report was not just about anti-Semitism.
He stood up and stated this and he noted that Ruth Smeeth (someone he saw as anti-Corbyn) had been handed his literature by a Telegraph journalist and he stated she is 'Working hand in hand' with the Telegraph. There was a bit of vocal protest about that comment then the person sitting next to Ruth whispered something to her and she got up and left followed by a couple of journalists. No tears, but they may have followed.


This is the notorious anti-Semitic attack on Ruth Smeeth that is referred to time and time again. As far as I am concerned it was nothing of the sort - it was a Labour member who has years of anti-racist campaigning under his belt making an impolite comment about an anti-Corbyn MP being too friendly with a Telegraph journalist.


The fact she is Jewish is of no relevance as far as I can tell.


The outcome of the hearing is lose/lose for Labour. Based on what I have seen: They can do the right thing and reinstate his membership and get slaughtered for being soft on AS. Or they can take the easy route and expel him and for those who have seen the footage know that they have caved in to pressure.


Politics - hornets nest.

 

[Benfleet A1]

I vaguely remember seeing that footage but couldn't hear what he actually said. Didn't she say something like 'what did he just say or I can't believe he just said that? She then walked out as I remember.

I suppose what you have to decide now is whether or not he did know she was/is jewish and whether or not it was a offensive or anti semetic comment. On the face of it, it didn't sound anti semetic to me but I'm not jewish or a woman. Perhaps she took offence because the Telegraph owners are jewish and she associated the slur as anti semetic towards the owners and thus her. Guessing here, nothing more.

Wadworth saying he didn't know she was jewish shouldn't have even come in to it unless there was implication aimed in the first place. Saying he has campaigned against racism for years means nothing if there were a underlying meaning to the comment. Afterall, look at Livingstone and how he has crashed and burned with ill thought comments.


Just my thoughts, not looking for a fight or row and I agree that Windrush is more serious and the newspapers have their priorities wrong. Its not balanced reporting.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I see that lovely Diane Abbot, you know, she who loves to just keep giving, has gone and given another one of her trademark car crash interviews on Good Morning this morning.

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/990912221910740992

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: And to think, she could be this countries next Home Secretary. Just let that sink in for a moment if you will :sad:

 

[rigsby]

I see that lovely Diane Abbot, you know, she who loves to just keep giving, has gone and given another one of her trademark car crash interviews on Good Morning this morning.

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/990912221910740992

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: And to think, she could be this countries next Home Secretary. Just let that sink in for a moment if you will :sad:

There is a clip on YouTube of Diane Abbott v Anne Widdecombe on BBC election night 1987.....Even when she first became an MP she could barely disguise her racism back then.

 

[Bielzibubz]

There is a clip on YouTube of Diane Abbott v Anne Widdecombe on BBC election night 1987.....Even when she first became an MP she could barely disguise her racism back then.

I don't care what particular political mast you tie your colours to you cannot deny that this woman is an absolute liability to the Labour party and and even bigger bonus to the Conservatives. Why JC keeps the racist imbecile of a woman by his side is beyond me. With her by his side he hasn't got a hope in hells chance. Thankfully :hilarious:

 

[maninasuitcase]

There is a clip on YouTube of Diane Abbott v Anne Widdecombe on BBC election night 1987.....Even when she first became an MP she could barely disguise her racism back then.

Wow, an opportunity for Rigsby to post up some real evidence to back up his claims, rather than him just making stuff up.

I wonder if Rigsby will now post up evidence that Shrimperzone members helped cover up paedophile rings as he claimed!

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I see that lovely Diane Abbot, you know, she who loves to just keep giving, has gone and given another one of her trademark car crash interviews on Good Morning this morning.

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/990912221910740992

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: And to think, she could be this countries next Home Secretary. Just let that sink in for a moment if you will :sad:

you made me watch Piers Morgan. If you ever make me watch Piers Morgan again it needs to be for something much more significant than this.
Abbott is often a frustrating watch - she often talks too slowly and I prefer my politicians to more inspiring. But when an interviewer asks the same question over an over it needs to be a question that has an answer.
So when Marr asked May if she knew about the failed Trident test before a vote in Parliament the question had an answer - yes she knew and she hid that from Parliament. He asked 4 times and she refused to answer 4 times, he made his point and moved on.
Morgan should not be on my screen. I don't want to see or hear him. His question is one that a politician can't answer and he knows that, his gotcha questioning doesn't work because he wouldn't have got an answer from Abbott, Rudd, anyone.
'Will you deport a million illegal immigrants?'
The actual answer is this - no, because that figure is plucked out of the air and if it by some freak of luck was accurate how are we going to find these people? Where are we going to get the staff to track down all of these people? May decimated Border Control so that stopping people getting in was harder to do, and all civil service departments have been stripped to the bone including 20,000 less police. So who is going to do that? If Morgan had any sense of reality he would have asked his researchers to put a cost on finding and deporting a million people and then he wouldn't bother asking the question. The genuine answer, which no politician will give is 'no mate, it's not going to happen, not cost effective', but some answers a politician can't give.

Abbott was on question avoidance and she isn't very good at that.
But the big story at the moment for the Home Office is Windrush. And Abbott warned May about the consequences of her actions, she told May directly in Parliament and was ignored, she was one of the few politicians who voted against May's 2014 Immigration Act that was the catalyst of this catastrophic policy (that has paralysed many individuals and the clean up operation will come at a big financial cost to the tax payer) and she has been very vocal in Parliament in 2018 to highlight this mess and get it fixed.

Yes Abbott had a stuttering interview where she struggled to answer a nonsensical question that has no answer, and in the same week she was proven to be on the right side of history again, was instrumental in getting justice for victimised British citizens and was instrumental in getting another Tory cabinet resignation - another step towards getting rid of this incompetent government.

In the important matter of the day - hats off to Diane Abbott.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Nicely batted away :hilarious:

So if there is no amnesty the only other alternative is to deport them yes? What's so damn difficult to understand about that ***. It's a simple yes/no answer. There is no middle ground. He asked her if labour would deport illegal immigrants seeing as they have stated there wouldn't and shouldn't be an amnesty. 50 thousand or a million. The question is the same. Would Labour deport illegal immigrants and she failed to answer.

29 lines of text to do exactly what every politician does day in day out. Regardless of the subject matter, turn the topic on it's head and find something to have a go back with. Yes, Windrush is a very important issue but my post was about the imbecile Diane Abbot, not May, BoJo or anyone else :smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Nicely batted away :hilarious:

So if there is no amnesty the only other alternative is to deport them yes? What's so damn difficult to understand about that ***. It's a simple yes/no answer. There is no middle ground. He asked her if labour would deport illegal immigrants seeing as they have stated there wouldn't and shouldn't be an amnesty. 50 thousand or a million. The question is the same. Would Labour deport illegal immigrants and she failed to answer.

29 lines of text to do exactly what every politician does day in day out. Regardless of the subject matter, turn the topic on it's head and find something to have a go back with. Yes, Windrush is a very important issue but my post was about the imbecile Diane Abbot, not May, BoJo or anyone else :smile:

Not even about Amber Rudd who resigned on the immigration issue on Sunday, after 200 MP's signed a letter accusing her of making up immigration policy "on the hoof.".:winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Nicely batted away :hilarious:

So if there is no amnesty the only other alternative is to deport them yes? What's so damn difficult to understand about that ***. It's a simple yes/no answer. There is no middle ground. He asked her if labour would deport illegal immigrants seeing as they have stated there wouldn't and shouldn't be an amnesty. 50 thousand or a million. The question is the same. Would Labour deport illegal immigrants and she failed to answer.

29 lines of text to do exactly what every politician does day in day out. Regardless of the subject matter, turn the topic on it's head and find something to have a go back with. Yes, Windrush is a very important issue but my post was about the imbecile Diane Abbot, not May, BoJo or anyone else :smile:

Morgan said there were a million people here illegally and asked if Labour would deport a million people - if you think that is a reasonable question maybe you can estimate how that could be done when every type of civil servant had been reduced including 20,000 police. It was a trap - if she had committed to doing that then she would have been accused of throwing ludicrous sums of money at an unachievable task.

It was a stupid question that no MP would answer.

What answer would you like a politician to give?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Nicely batted away :hilarious:

So if there is no amnesty the only other alternative is to deport them yes? What's so damn difficult to understand about that ***. It's a simple yes/no answer. There is no middle ground. He asked her if labour would deport illegal immigrants seeing as they have stated there wouldn't and shouldn't be an amnesty. 50 thousand or a million. The question is the same. Would Labour deport illegal immigrants and she failed to answer.

29 lines of text to do exactly what every politician does day in day out. Regardless of the subject matter, turn the topic on it's head and find something to have a go back with. Yes, Windrush is a very important issue but my post was about the imbecile Diane Abbot, not May, BoJo or anyone else :smile:

while we are here - Dianne Abbott - in the same week she was proven to be on the right side of history again, was instrumental in getting justice for victimised British citizens and was instrumental in getting another Tory cabinet resignation - another step towards getting rid of this incompetent government.

No begrudging respect for her doing her job on this specific and very important subject consistently right?

 

[Bielzibubz]

Whether the question was answerable or not is really here no there. She's like it in every interview she does. Plenty of other Labour politicians could have batted those type of questions away with ease, as they have done before on many previous occasions but not good old Dianne Abbot. She could have at least tried to explain why she couldn't answer the question. She didn't. She could have gone into a little detail like you have to me about why the question was pointless. She didn't. She could have at least tried to give PM a piece of his own medicine. She didn't. She could have tried all that but no. She stumbled, mumbled, paused and gaffed, and generally made herself, and by association, her party look incompetent.

She's a car crash for the Labour party and a Godsend to the Conservatives. A bit like Trump, totally out of her depth and not fit for the job.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Whether the question was answerable or not is really here no there. She's like it in every interview she does. Plenty of other Labour politicians could have batted those type of questions away with ease, as they have done before on many previous occasions but not good old Dianne Abbot. She could have at least tried to explain why she couldn't answer the question. She didn't. She could have gone into a little detail like you have to me about why the question was pointless. She didn't. She could have at least tried to give PM a piece of his own medicine. She didn't. She could have tried all that but no. She stumbled, mumbled, paused and gaffed, and generally made herself, and by association, her party look incompetent.

She's a car crash for the Labour party and a Godsend to the Conservatives. A bit like Trump, totally out of her depth and not fit for the job.

Your obvious right-wing diversionary tactics beggar belief.The fact is that the Tories are set to make huge losses in the local elections, largely thanks to the Windrush scandal and other factors.Labour is clearly a government in waiting and all you can do is bang on about Dianne Abbot.Pathetic.

I'd probably agree with you that Yvette Cooper had more to do with Amber Rudd's demise than DA but that's about it.

 

[OldBlueLady]

If Corbyn and Abbot were not such high profile members of the Labour front bench, Labour would be absolutely annihilating the Conservatives - as they should be at the moment with the Tories in chaos. Abbot is almost a Tory secret agent with the faux pas the vile woman continues to make.

I have no doubt there will be massive Labour gains of local councils tomorrow but that still needs to translate to the country as a whole for them to realistically offer an alternative.

The whole world of politics is a shambles.