Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[blues exile]

I wouldn't describe Tony Benn as a hero of mine I just liked his integrity and honesty over expenses etc. I liked the fact that he believed in what he said even if I didn't always agree. Like the Falklands for example.

To claim that the toothless UN would have solved anything is a desperate attempt to discredit the correct action and the clear benefits to Britain, Argentina after the war.

The Victory over the Argentinians gave our country renewed confidence. The US said we couldn't achieve a victory as obviously its more difficult to fight from ships than it is on land. The fact that no one was bothered when the Belgrano was sunk, helped us step up the war in NI and get tough with the IRA...Ultimately was the only reason they surrendered.

Good example of Britain making our own decisions, therefore the right decision and the world becomes a better place for it.

It's a sad reflection of the UK if it needed a war to achieve 'renewed confidence'. Perhaps it was that 'renewed confidence' that lured us into the misguided involvement in Afghanistan and Libya and an illegal war in Iraq which has unleashed so much carnage in the middle east and beyond. The glorification of a war that could and should have been avoided is a post Imperial echo of the days when the sun never set on the British Empire. If the UN is toothless, the UK is certainly one of those countries that has played a major role in making it so, having blithely ignored or bypassed it on too many occasions since it was founded.

 

[rigsby]

It's a sad reflection of the UK if it needed a war to achieve 'renewed confidence'. Perhaps it was that 'renewed confidence' that lured us into the misguided involvement in Afghanistan and Libya and an illegal war in Iraq which has unleashed so much carnage in the middle east and beyond. The glorification of a war that could and should have been avoided is a post Imperial echo of the days when the sun never set on the British Empire. If the UN is toothless, the UK is certainly one of those countries that has played a major role in making it so, having blithely ignored or bypassed it on too many occasions since it was founded.

Like I said the Falklands was the last justifiable war that we have had. You seemed to forget that they had invaded a group of Islands that weren't there's. They had taken British Prisoners to Buenos Aires and would have enjoyed mocking us as the pointless, US funded, UN dithered as they always do.

Who knows what would have happened if the Right wing murderous Galtieri regime had gained 'renewed confidence' .....might have been Chile next and then what for South America.

Blair and co are just bought and paid for puppets for the people who make war a business. Why do you think him and his family are rewarded with well paid banking and ambassador jobs. Shows a nice career path for the next corrupt murderer that ends up in Power.

Like many who use the word 'exile', you love nothing more than sniping at Britain and those of us who are loyal to their country and proud of the History. But the world was safer under the Empire than the Britain of today......The very fact that Blair could ignore his whole cabinet and decide to lead his country into the genocide, because it certainly wasn't a war, of 1000's of innocent muslim women and children who had barley left the village they were born in is the greatest shame in British history.

Then to tell us he picked up the wrong papers over WMD and get away with it, is not only a shame on the ordinary British public, it has made the world afar more dangerous place. There are some very powerful men who are absolutely mad and we have a lot worse to come.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I wouldn't describe Tony Benn as a hero of mine I just liked his integrity and honesty over expenses etc. I liked the fact that he believed in what he said even if I didn't always agree. Like the Falklands for example.

To claim that the toothless UN would have solved anything is a desperate attempt to discredit the correct action and the clear benefits to Britain, Argentina after the war.

The Victory over the Argentinians gave our country renewed confidence. The US said we couldn't achieve a victory as obviously its more difficult to fight from ships than it is on land. The fact that no one was bothered when the Belgrano was sunk, helped us step up the war in NI and get tough with the IRA...Ultimately was the only reason they surrendered.

Good example of Britain making our own decisions, therefore the right decision and the world becomes a better place for it.

It seem to me that you that either you believe in the UN as a potential peace keeping force for for the resolution of conlicts ,or you don't.Needlees to say, (I imagine) ,I do.

In your opinion, and no, it wasn't clear. Either way, please don't state an opinion as fact.

I think I made it quite clear (as did Tony Benn did at the time) that the Falkands War could have been resolved at the UN.That is quite clearly an opinion.

Like I said the Falklands was the last justifiable war that we have had. You seemed to forget that they had invaded a group of Islands that weren't there's. They had taken British Prisoners to Buenos Aires and would have enjoyed mocking us as the pointless, US funded, UN dithered as they always do.

Who knows what would have happened if the Right wing murderous Galtieri regime had gained 'renewed confidence' .....might have been Chile next and then what for South America.

Blair and co are just bought and paid for puppets for the people who make war a business. Why do you think him and his family are rewarded with well paid banking and ambassador jobs. Shows a nice career path for the next corrupt murderer that ends up in Power.

Like many who use the word 'exile', you love nothing more than sniping at Britain and those of us who are loyal to their country and proud of the History. But the world was safer under the Empire than the Britain of today......The very fact that Blair could ignore his whole cabinet and decide to lead his country into the genocide, because it certainly wasn't a war, of 1000's of innocent muslim women and children who had barley left the village they were born in is the greatest shame in British history.

Then to tell us he picked up the wrong papers over WMD and get away with it, is not only a shame on the ordinary British public, it has made the world afar more dangerous place. There are some very powerful men who are absolutely mad and we have a lot worse to come.

We agree that the war on Iraq was an immoral and an illegal war.Not much else it seems.

As a fellow "exile" I'm proud to be a UK citizen and of much of our nation's history.Not all of it Certainly not our role in the Iraq war, or necessarliy under what you call "the Emp¡re."

 

[mattitouk]

Corbyn will never be Prime Minister. Mark my words.

I'm a red traditionally, but I would never vote for that complete arse hole. I Would rather vote for the green party!... And that speak volumes in terms of a "lost vote"!..... I'm sure i'm not alone.

 

[maninasuitcase]

I don't care what his sexual preferences are. So why would I do that.

Not sure why so many of you want to cover up for Paedophile gangs.

Total rubbish again. You really need to put up or shut up on this one, Rigsby. I don't think you will find a single post on the whole of Shrimperzone that in anyway supports the cover up of paedophile gangs.

Happy hunting though, perhaps you could report back in 6 months or so when you have had a chance to sift through every post on the zone.

 

[blues exile]

Like I said the Falklands was the last justifiable war that we have had. You seemed to forget that they had invaded a group of Islands that weren't there's. They had taken British Prisoners to Buenos Aires and would have enjoyed mocking us as the pointless, US funded, UN dithered as they always do.

Who knows what would have happened if the Right wing murderous Galtieri regime had gained 'renewed confidence' .....might have been Chile next and then what for South America.

Blair and co are just bought and paid for puppets for the people who make war a business. Why do you think him and his family are rewarded with well paid banking and ambassador jobs. Shows a nice career path for the next corrupt murderer that ends up in Power.

Like many who use the word 'exile', you love nothing more than sniping at Britain and those of us who are loyal to their country and proud of the History. But the world was safer under the Empire than the Britain of today......The very fact that Blair could ignore his whole cabinet and decide to lead his country into the genocide, because it certainly wasn't a war, of 1000's of innocent muslim women and children who had barley left the village they were born in is the greatest shame in British history.

Then to tell us he picked up the wrong papers over WMD and get away with it, is not only a shame on the ordinary British public, it has made the world afar more dangerous place. There are some very powerful men who are absolutely mad and we have a lot worse to come.

In complete agreement over Blair.
However.....
i doubt the millions of indigenous people under the yoke of the British Empire felt the world was 'a safer place', and in common with many other European nations who pillaged and enslaved vast swathes of Africa, South America and the Indian sub continent, we have a shameful history of oppression and exploitation whilst forcing our 'superior' culture and religion on the poor benighted savages. So no, I don't feel proud of that part of our history at all, not to mention the intended consequences of the Irish potato famine and the highland clearances and other matters far closer to home.
Like many expatriates who choose to live abroad, I celebrate and admire the many positive achievements of my country in the fields of medicine, science and the arts etc but would never subscribe to blind nationalism, one of the prime reasons for so much evil in the world.

 

[Bielzibubz]

In complete agreement over Blair.
However.....
i doubt the millions of indigenous people under the yoke of the British Empire felt the world was 'a safer place', and in common with many other European nations who pillaged and enslaved vast swathes of Africa, South America and the Indian sub continent, we have a shameful history of oppression and exploitation whilst forcing our 'superior' culture and religion on the poor benighted savages. So no, I don't feel proud of that part of our history at all, not to mention the intended consequences of the Irish potato famine and the highland clearances and other matters far closer to home.
Like many expatriates who choose to live abroad, I celebrate and admire the many positive achievements of my country in the fields of medicine, science and the arts etc but would never subscribe to blind nationalism, one of the prime reasons for so much evil in the world.

Despite our clear political differences I'm in 100% agreement on all of this.

 

[rigsby]

In complete agreement over Blair.
However.....
i doubt the millions of indigenous people under the yoke of the British Empire felt the world was 'a safer place', and in common with many other European nations who pillaged and enslaved vast swathes of Africa, South America and the Indian sub continent, we have a shameful history of oppression and exploitation whilst forcing our 'superior' culture and religion on the poor benighted savages. So no, I don't feel proud of that part of our history at all, not to mention the intended consequences of the Irish potato famine and the highland clearances and other matters far closer to home.
Like many expatriates who choose to live abroad, I celebrate and admire the many positive achievements of my country in the fields of medicine, science and the arts etc but would never subscribe to blind nationalism, one of the prime reasons for so much evil in the world.

Not sure what you mean by Intended consequences. Just a reminder that Britain didn't start slavery it ended it. There were over 1m white slaves taken from Europe to Africa over a similar period.

Ever heard of Admiral Codrington and the battle of Navarino.....Don't worry nobody else has....We saved the Greeks from Genocide.

How about the West African Squadron.....No monument for hundreds of British sailors who died ending the Atlantic slave trade.

The British used about 20% of our naval fleet and captured around 1600 ships, freed 150,000 Africans. We even had to redesign our ships as the US were building 'Baltimore Clippers' to out run the British Navy.......Wonder why we never see a Hollywood film about that?



Sadly to much of British history is told fro the left wing angle or worse still Hollywood.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not sure what you mean by Intended consequences. Just a reminder that Britain didn't start slavery it ended it. There were over 1m white slaves taken from Europe to Africa over a similar period.

Ever heard of Admiral Codrington and the battle of Navarino.....Don't worry nobody else has....We saved the Greeks from Genocide.

How about the West African Squadron.....No monument for hundreds of British sailors who died ending the Atlantic slave trade.

The British used about 20% of our naval fleet and captured around 1600 ships, freed 150,000 Africans. We even had to redesign our ships as the US were building 'Baltimore Clippers' to out run the British Navy.......Wonder why we never see a Hollywood film about that?



Sadly to much of British history is told fro the left wing angle or worse still Hollywood.

Yes,I did think Darkest Hour rather suffered from the Hollywood treatment.:winking:

 

[blues exile]

Not sure what you mean by Intended consequences. Just a reminder that Britain didn't start slavery it ended it. There were over 1m white slaves taken from Europe to Africa over a similar period.

Ever heard of Admiral Codrington and the battle of Navarino.....Don't worry nobody else has....We saved the Greeks from Genocide.

How about the West African Squadron.....No monument for hundreds of British sailors who died ending the Atlantic slave trade.

The British used about 20% of our naval fleet and captured around 1600 ships, freed 150,000 Africans. We even had to redesign our ships as the US were building 'Baltimore Clippers' to out run the British Navy.......Wonder why we never see a Hollywood film about that?



Sadly to much of British history is told fro the left wing angle or worse still Hollywood.

I think a more accurate interpretation is needed. We had been engaged in the slave trade since Elizabeth 1's reign, and only exceeded by Portugal in the number of slaves transported from Africa, a trade that enriched many in Britain, who were then amply compensated when it ended.

As for the battle of Navarino, our involvement in the Greek War of Independence was hardly for humanitarian reasons. It was prompted by concern that Russia might have undue influence over a newly independent Greece. Hence our co-operation with the French to secure Russia's agreement to a tri-lateral approach. The fleet of which Codrington was commander was of course comprised of all three nations' ships and with the superior firepower and gunnery of the allies the battle was an extremely one sided affair. Even then, the final withdrawal of Ottoman forces from Greece was only achieved after more military action by Russia and France.

 

[rigsby]

I think a more accurate interpretation is needed. We had been engaged in the slave trade since Elizabeth 1's reign, and only exceeded by Portugal in the number of slaves transported from Africa, a trade that enriched many in Britain, who were then amply compensated when it ended.

As for the battle of Navarino, our involvement in the Greek War of Independence was hardly for humanitarian reasons. It was prompted by concern that Russia might have undue influence over a newly independent Greece. Hence our co-operation with the French to secure Russia's agreement to a tri-lateral approach. The fleet of which Codrington was commander was of course comprised of all three nations' ships and with the superior firepower and gunnery of the allies the battle was an extremely one sided affair. Even then, the final withdrawal of Ottoman forces from Greece was only achieved after more military action by Russia and France.

I think you'll find there quite a few things back in Liz's 1's time that might not be acceptable by our morally superior views of today. Back then we would torture and burn people at the stake because of their religion. Now days we bomb them from the air because of their religion. We kill them by the millions and we make the elite that run the Military/industrial complex £billions.....So yes I agree with you us mass murders (were all guilty) make more money than the slavers ever did and its socially acceptable in the 21st century..... Still as long as we make sure the odd Marine gets charged with murder out in Afghanistan, we express how offended we are on social media about Trump, or we make it clear we 'uncomfortable' with our colonial history. Then we have nothing to be ashamed of, in fact we can even smugly point fingers at those who don't join in such activity and cleanse ourselves from any responsibility.

By the way you didn't give an answer to the Irish question.

You haven't mentioned the British navy ending cross Atlantic slavery.....Understandable if your selective British history shamer.

Your knowledge of Navarino is either floored, probably by some left wing history changer, or deliberately miss leading.

The Greeks had lost their battle for independence and the Ottomans had decided to wipe out vast areas of any Greeks and then populate it with muslims. They were busy murdering raping and burning any crops to starve the locals.

There was an outcry in places like London and Paris as this was being done to Christians. So the mission was for humanitarian reasons. But back then things were the same as they are today, as in the people in charge have a bigger plan. So despite our coalition with others we were actually worried that a total defeat on the Ottomans could mean the Russians might march into Turkey rather than Greece.

I believe we only had about 25 ships to their 75. They had shore batteries and smaller fire ships and the wind in their favour. So just like your false claim that the Falklands war was a turkey shoot neither was this. We had even been nice and friendly and sent peace negotiators on board their flag ship. The Turks treated them like Leeds fans, slit their throats and chucked them overboard. Then opened fire from the shore batteries and set fire ships towards the fleet.

Of course back then Codrington didn't have to wait for some pointless UN directive.....Oh no not only did they fire first, they had fired on the British navy...... five hours later the whole of the Ottoman fleet was either on fire or at the bottom of the sea.

What that meant is that with no navy they couldn't supply their soldiers who were happily committing genocide in the Peloponnese. Yes the French went and rounded them up but they were halve starved and defeated anyway.


Codrington had upset the big boys back in London but was cheered through the streets by masses. Like everyone in Britain I had never heard of Codrington until I went to the Peloponnese, which I would thoroughly recommend. Its half the price of the islands and some lovely laid back places, like Stoupa. They even have English street names as a thank you and are proud of their Independence because that's the place where the uprising began.

 

[Uncle Leo]

This is wonderful.

 

[C C Csiders]

Amusing that you pick out FLA and their numbers and associate that with 'Tommy Robinson'. He was specifically not invited to their events. They wanted to have a distinction between what they were doing and what EDL, Britain First, etc were doing.

He ignored them and turned up anyway.


Sure there is a crossover between those groups which is why FLA faces were at his Speakers Corner event but the top bods don't want him or members of EDL or BF.


I've listened and read a lot of his output but he has now blocked me on twitter (guess he doesn't value my freedom of speech) and I won't be signing up to his paywall stuff so I guess the opportunity for his words convincing me have passed.


If you have access to his stuff - he recorded himself leaving threatening messages for a leading member of FLA relating to a spat they had over him being barred.


I know some see 'Tommy' as their voice but with his 12 convictions you can never be sure if he will be on the outside long enough to have a voice, and as he has never in his life voted he won't be expressing himself through those means.

Add to that he is a garden gnome

 

[Benfleet A1]

This is wonderful.

It's a bit of a worry that she is part of the supposed govenment in waiting. I can't wait for the excuses on here for this one.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

But the world was safer under the Empire than the Britain of today

Two World Wars might suggest otherwise....

 

[Benfleet A1]

Two World Wars might suggest otherwise....

Oh bloody hell, we are'nt getting the blame for that as well are we?

 

[rigsby]

Two World Wars might suggest otherwise....

Try googling a bloke called Adolf Hitler.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Two World Wars might suggest otherwise....

I'm not sure the British Empire can be blamed for Kaiser Wilhelm II, the rise of national socialism in Germany, fascism in Italy and Spain or Emperor Hirohito? :raspberry:

The British Empire, while undemocratic in many respects was a reasonably safe place to be by the standards of the time - countries like Bechuanaland actually asked to join in order to be protected by Britain from expansionist neighbours. It was much of the rest of the world you had to worry about.

Now of course we have Trump, Putin, the Ayatollahs, North Korea, Islamic State, Syria, the Taliban and the emergence of undemocratic China as possibly a dominant world force. Not a lot of comfort for anyone looking for stability in the world. Europe and Japan are of course a far cry from what they were in WWII thankfully, but there are plenty of very unpleasant people in positions of power. They are just not as criminally insane as some of the leaders of the Axis Powers and Japan in WWII, nor are they in such wealthy or influential countries as the nutters of WWII.

 

[londonblue]

This is wonderful.

Is that a spoof? It can't possibly be real.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Is that a spoof? It can't possibly be real.

There is an audio excerpt on that link.