Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[londonblue]

absolutely the public bought into May's instant response narrative but I think that is short term as as far as I can tell all she has done is expel some diplomats. Nuclear sales, party donations, interference in elections and even the UK-EU-US united front look like things that won't benefit the Tories from closer scrutiny. So I think it will be downgraded and May will have had her couple of weeks of uplift then business as usual.

Don't forget there's a difference between "won't benefit" and "will damage". May got her benefit, whatever else happens.

 

[londonblue]

As for the Falklands, Thatcher chose to engineer the situation that arose and then capitalised politically on a 'victory' that resulted from a grotesque imbalance of military force. That sort of post Imperial nonsense might work against a faraway country under a shaky military dictatorship but to imagine that we can inflict anything but a fleabite on the Russian bear is to carry our delusions about our place in the world to unparalelled flights of fancy. The notion that having turned our back on Europe we can expect other than warm words from the EU is yet another delusion.

She may have contributed to the situation, but to say she engineered the situation is a gross exaggeration since it assumes that the Argentinians played no part in it. Having spoken to an Argentinian I work with, and got his take on it, I can assure you there was plenty of "engineering" going on from their side. They were spoiling for a war because they were denied one with Chile (also over some Islands they were both claiming) when a Catholic priest stepped in to mediate. According to him most Argentinians had never even heard of the Falklands before they invaded. The extremely unpopular Argentinian Government at the time saw it as a way to boost their popularity.

 

[blues exile]

She may have contributed to the situation, but to say she engineered the situation is a gross exaggeration since it assumes that the Argentinians played no part in it. Having spoken to an Argentinian I work with, and got his take on it, I can assure you there was plenty of "engineering" going on from their side. They were spoiling for a war because they were denied one with Chile (also over some Islands they were both claiming) when a Catholic priest stepped in to mediate. According to him most Argentinians had never even heard of the Falklands before they invaded. The extremely unpopular Argentinian Government at the time saw it as a way to boost their popularity.

A mirror image. Most Britons had never heard of the Falklands either. Extremely unpopular government saw it as a way to boost their popularity. There was plenty of back channel activity leading up to the war but Thatcher saw her chance and took it. It's in the Tory DNA

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Don't forget there's a difference between "won't benefit" and "will damage". May got her benefit, whatever else happens.

I was being polite - if reported accurately there is a lot around the Tories dealings with Russia that could have a big hit on their reputation.

 

[Uncle Leo]

A mirror image. Most Britons had never heard of the Falklands either. Extremely unpopular government saw it as a way to boost their popularity. There was plenty of back channel activity leading up to the war but Thatcher saw her chance and took it. It's in the Tory DNA

Sorry to go all Barna, but when I was at uni I had a tutor - an expert in international relations - who said that back in 1982, his phone was ringing off the hook from all sides of the media as people tried to find out what the hell the Falklands were!

 

[rigsby]

This post is rubbish, just a mixture of exaggeration, lies and mis-direction just to score points about Telford and female labour MPs.

The BBC aren't a police force, why do you expect them to act as such?

You have recordings about Jill Dando? Why haven't you copied it and passed it on to the police and every media outlet in the world? Because you made it up?

I have no doubt Jeffrey Epstein is not a very nice person but I can't link him to Jeremy Corbyn, so I don't know why he is mentioned on a thread about him.

You criticise female labour MPs for not doing enough in Telford. I have to ask you why female Tory MPs, and their male colleagues, who have actually been in government since 2010 and therefore can do something about it, are not given the same scrutiny?

There you go ***, a perfect example of what any whistle blower is up against.

The moment you speak up someone will smugly sneer down at you from their apologists pedestal and attempt to discredit anything we say.

Female MP's in particular should speak up. As for claiming the BBC have no responsibility only the police....Pathetic.

If maninasuitacase wants to put up £100 for the zone against me. I'll point to some evidence he has never heard about Jill Dando......Of course he won't though we all know that.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

There you go ***, a perfect example of what any whistle blower is up against.

The moment you speak up someone will smugly sneer down at you from their apologists pedestal and attempt to discredit anything we say.

Female MP's in particular should speak up. As for claiming the BBC have no responsibility only the police....Pathetic.

If maninasuitacase wants to put up £100 for the zone against me. I'll point to some evidence he has never heard about Jill Dando......Of course he won't though we all know that.

I'm not sure you qualify as a whistle blower for repeating some stuff on a football website.
We usually share information on here for free so £100 charge to Suitcase sounds like a bad deal.

 

[londonblue]

A mirror image. Most Britons had never heard of the Falklands either. Extremely unpopular government saw it as a way to boost their popularity. There was plenty of back channel activity leading up to the war but Thatcher saw her chance and took it. It's in the Tory DNA

Indeed. The point still stands that this was both sides, and not just Thatcher's engineering. Believe me, I have no love of Thatcher, but to say she was entirely to blame is clearly wrong.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Indeed. The point still stands that this was both sides, and not just Thatcher's engineering. Believe me, I have no love of Thatcher, but to say she was entirely to blame is clearly wrong.

Blues exile stated quite clearly that "Thatcher saw her chance and took it" while also stating that "there was plenty of back channel activity leading up to the war".While I take your point that "this was on both sides," I don't see this constitutes evidence for BE claiming that Thatcher "was entirely to blame" for the war.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Sorry to go all Barna, but when I was at uni I had a tutor - an expert in international relations - who said that back in 1982, his phone was ringing off the hook from all sides of the media as people tried to find out what the hell the Falklands were!

Ha! I remember I was working in Montpellier that year and having to explain to incredulous French students on a daily basis-while the task force was sailing- what the war was supposed to be about.

 

[londonblue]

Blues exile stated quite clearly that "Thatcher saw her chance and took it" while also stating that "there was plenty of back channel activity leading up to the war".While I take your point that "this was on both sides," I don't see this constitutes evidence for BE claiming that Thatcher "was entirely to blame" for the war.

I highlighted the bit that led me to that conclusion. Until such time as it is clarified by the person that wrote it I think i'm entitled to assume I interpreted it correctly.

 

[Blueronron]

There you go ***, a perfect example of what any whistle blower is up against.

The moment you speak up someone will smugly sneer down at you from their apologists pedestal and attempt to discredit anything we say.

Female MP's in particular should speak up. As for claiming the BBC have no responsibility only the police....Pathetic.

If maninasuitacase wants to put up £100 for the zone against me. I'll point to some evidence he has never heard about Jill Dando......Of course he won't though we all know that.

Why has it got to be money, if you know let the world know, surely you arenot scared of being caught and been hunted down by the dark side

 

[blues exile]

I highlighted the bit that led me to that conclusion. Until such time as it is clarified by the person that wrote it I think i'm entitled to assume I interpreted it correctly.

I never claimed she was 'entirely to blame' but undoubtedly the various signals by her government in the lead up to the war encouraged Argentina to believe there would be no military response if they seized the islands.These included the withdrawal of the British Navy vessels from the area, such as HMS Endurance, and the1981 British Nationality Act which reduced the islanders' full British citizenship.These events and the diplomatic exchanges between the two countries encouraged Argentina in the belief that either we would hand over peacefully or would not respond militarily to an invasion. Argentina's subsequent invasion was either Thatcher's good fortune or they were suckered into a trap.Who knows?

 

[rigsby]

Why has it got to be money, if you know let the world know, surely you arenot scared of being caught and been hunted down by the dark side

He has called me a liar on the zone. So I'm offering him the chance to back his statement up....You can crowd fund him if you like.

 

[londonblue]

I never claimed she was 'entirely to blame' but undoubtedly the various signals by her government in the lead up to the war encouraged Argentina to believe there would be no military response if they seized the islands.These included the withdrawal of the British Navy vessels from the area, such as HMS Endurance, and the1981 British Nationality Act which reduced the islanders' full British citizenship.These events and the diplomatic exchanges between the two countries encouraged Argentina in the belief that either we would hand over peacefully or would not respond militarily to an invasion. Argentina's subsequent invasion was either Thatcher's good fortune or they were suckered into a trap.Who knows?

If it was a trap it was one they wanted because the Argentinian government was extremely unpopular at the time, and they had just been mediated away from another war they were trying to instigate.

 

[rigsby]

I never claimed she was 'entirely to blame' but undoubtedly the various signals by her government in the lead up to the war encouraged Argentina to believe there would be no military response if they seized the islands.These included the withdrawal of the British Navy vessels from the area, such as HMS Endurance, and the1981 British Nationality Act which reduced the islanders' full British citizenship.These events and the diplomatic exchanges between the two countries encouraged Argentina in the belief that either we would hand over peacefully or would not respond militarily to an invasion. Argentina's subsequent invasion was either Thatcher's good fortune or they were suckered into a trap.Who knows?

Could it be that they were a murderous right wing dictatorship that underestimated a woman. They had got away with abducting, torturing and killing 1000's of their own citizens......Or have you forgotten that.

They were holding British troops in Prison. Not only was it the only war in recent times that was fully justified it ended the rule of the Miltary Junta and brought back democracy in Argentina. We will never know how many lives that has saved over the decades.......Wonderful example of Britain at its best.

 

[Blueronron]

He has called me a liar on the zone. So I'm offering him the chance to back his statement up....You can crowd fund him if you like.

Surely then you can" Out him" by backing up your statement, and then that makes you correct.

I would have thought a man of your principles would be happy to prove the doubters wrong, unless of course its not true and you have been caught out ?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Could it be that they were a murderous right wing dictatorship that underestimated a woman. They had got away with abducting, torturing and killing 1000's of their own citizens......Or have you forgotten that.

They were holding British troops in Prison. Not only was it the only war in recent times that was fully justified it ended the rule of the Miltary Junta and brought back democracy in Argentina. We will never know how many lives that has saved over the decades.......Wonderful example of Britain at its best.

Compare that to nowadays Tories who continue to arm the Saudis (and possibly Russia - Mrs May refused to answer that question).

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Compare that to nowadays Tories who continue to arm the Saudis (and possibly Russia - Mrs May refused to answer that question).

Actually Thatcher was bezzie mates with Pinochet so maybe she wasn't looking to rid the word of the Argentine Junta but merely hold on to the Falklands.

 

[rigsby]

Surely then you can" Out him" by backing up your statement, and then that makes you correct.

I would have thought a man of your principles would be happy to prove the doubters wrong, unless of course its not true and you have been caught out ?

I don't care what his sexual preferences are. So why would I do that.

Not sure why so many of you want to cover up for Paedophile gangs.