Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Member]

Can we at the very least stop with the childish nicknames. I'm not an expert on zionism/semitism/the history of Israel etc, and the more I read about it and speak to people about it, the more confused I get.

The Corbyn '*********' nickname is childish and stupid, and Londonblue you're someone who's views and input I respect a lot on here.. which is why it's disappointing you want to persist with it. I'm not a Corbyn apologist and debating what he's done previously, and how he leads the party now are legitimate things to do, but Camerscum/Maybot/********* etc... none of us are teenagers any more and it demeans the good posting you do, IMO.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Can we at the very least stop with the childish nicknames. I'm not an expect on zionism/semitism/the history of israel etc, and the more I ready about it and speak to people about it, the more confused I get.

The Corbyn '*********' nickname is childish and stupid, and Londonblue you're someone who's views and input I respect a lot on here.. which is why it's disappointing you want to persist with it. I'm not a Corbyn apologist and debating what he's done previously, and how he leads the party now are legitimate things to do, but Camerscum/Maybot/********* etc... none of us are teenagers any more and it demeans the good posting you do, IMO.

Don't think he liked Maybot, for some reason (I do,it's appropriate).:winking:

 

[londonblue]

I've never claimed to be an expert.The point of my post was to show that I'm not anti-semitic.But I most certainly am anti-zionist.That is also true for KL I believe.

Your point about Momentum is just plain wrong.Stop reading the Tory press.

I've never accused (or even considered) you to be an anti-semite. KL, on the other hand either is, or displays tendencies.

 

[londonblue]

could you breakdown the similarities of the two organisations please?

Don't need to, it's pretty obvious to anyone outside of the party. I'm sure you also know they're similar, hence your Freudian slip.

 

[londonblue]

He hasn’t made any anti-Semitic comments so it makes sense to assume he isn’t anti-Semitic. Just saying ‘yes he is’ is not a winning argument.

I have never told the Jewish community they are wrong. Within the Jewish Community there are as many different opinions as there are in any other Community. There is not even a consensus of the community towards Israel and the actions of its government let alone any other political attitudes. I doubt they elected you their spokesperson – you are just someone with an opinion who is posting on a football forum – the same as the rest of us.

I have never said I wouldn’t be willing to listen to any victims – that is a childish baseless comment.

There is no crime so you looking for a punishment to give you some kind of closure doesn’t fit. Yet again – he is suspended indefinitely – that is a result of an investigation that found he brought the party into disrepute. This is a sensible and pragmatic solution and better than going to court and racking through a period of history that for community cohesion is best not given a platform. Gobshites like Livingstone and Boris Johnson use Hitler in contexts that are not constructive – these kind of people reach a point where they are better off sidelined, but on this no crime has been committed.

And there you go again...you need educating.

And by saying that KL hasn't said anything anti semitic you're effectively telling the Jewish community they're wrong. Yes, you're right that there are differences of opinion within the Jewish Community, but that one thing almost all of them agree on is KL. The fact that they consider KL to be anti semitic is good enough for me because I work on the principle that it's for the victim to tell me that something is offensive. It's not for me to tell them they're wrong, which is what you're effectively doing by saying KL hasn't said anything anti semitic. If you really can't see it then I suggest you seek out your nearest Rabbi, or even just a community leader and speak to him/her. I'm sure (s)he'll be able to set you straight.

As I said, if ********* can't even get round to starting an investigation/inquiry that he announced he sure as hell isn't taking this seriously. He's even met with the Jewish community, and they seem to come away more dismayed with every meeting. (Of course, that last bit is just my perception...)

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

And there you go again...you need educating.

then educate me - I asked you for a quote

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Don't need to, it's pretty obvious to anyone outside of the party. I'm sure you also know they're similar, hence your Freudian slip.

what Freudian slip? You put their names together as if they were one and the same - the obvious question is therefore to ask what similarities there are that make you view them as the same entity

 

[londonblue]

then educate me - I asked you for a quote

I told you to seek out a leader. I'm not prepared to do that on a public forum, it could go on a bit.

 

[londonblue]

what Freudian slip? You put their names together as if they were one and the same - the obvious question is therefore to ask what similarities there are that make you view them as the same entity

The Freudian slip even TUIB picked you up on. However the only real difference seems to be that Momentum are happy to bully and harass long standing members of the party, which Militant (to my knowledge) didn't do.

And no, I'm not prepared to give examples of bullying because they came from my 1st cousin. She has a friend who is very active in the labour party. She sent emails to my cousin who forwarded them on to me. Giving examples might make it obvious where they came from.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I told you to seek out a leader. I'm not prepared to do that on a public forum, it could go on a bit.

I don't know what the highlighted bit means.
I don't know why you wouldn't quote someone if a quote existed.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The Freudian slip even TUIB picked you up on. However the only real difference seems to be that Momentum are happy to bully and harass long standing members of the party, which Militant (to my knowledge) didn't do.

And no, I'm not prepared to give examples of bullying because they came from my 1st cousin. She has a friend who is very active in the labour party. She sent emails to my cousin who forwarded them on to me. Giving examples might make it obvious where they came from.

TUIB implied the amount of differences could fill a book.
I asked you for similarities because you see them as the same thing - it was a question, with deliberate wording.
If I wanted to know the differences I wouldn't ask someone who sees them as the same thing - that would be pointless.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I've never accused (or even considered) you to be an anti-semite. KL, on the other hand either is, or displays tendencies.

You clearly don't seem to accept ,however,that it is perfectly possible to be anti-zionist but not ant-semitic (as KL is IMO and I certainly am).

The Freudian slip even TUIB picked you up on. However the only real difference seems to be that Momentum are happy to bully and harass long standing members of the party, which Militant (to my knowledge) didn't do.

And no, I'm not prepared to give examples of bullying because they came from my 1st cousin. She has a friend who is very active in the labour party. She sent emails to my cousin who forwarded them on to me. Giving examples might make it obvious where they came from.

I can certainly remember attending the Mayday rally in Hyde Park,back in 1981, where both Tony Benn and Dennis Healey addressed the crowd in support of their respective bids for the Deputy leadership of the PLP.Militant members there certainly made it hot for anyone supporting Healey.Not my case.:winking:

 

[callan]

Meanwhile in an ICM poll Labour goes one point behind the Tories....and both May and Corbyn according to the poll are failing to enthuse voters.

Not a Corbyn fan particularly but I would have thought we should expect to see him and Labour with a commanding lead.

And yes I know its just a poll and they have been proved wrong in the past...but how far ahead of Tories should Labour be when faced with such an inept and weak Government?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Meanwhile in an ICM poll Labour goes one point behind the Tories....and both May and Corbyn according to the poll are failing to enthuse voters.

Not a Corbyn fan particularly but I would have thought we should expect to see him and Labour with a commanding lead.

And yes I know its just a poll and they have been proved wrong in the past...but how far ahead of Tories should Labour be when faced with such an inept and weak Government?

It's just a matter of time before this weak Tory government under Mrs May implodes.Be patient.:winking:

 

[callan]

It's just a matter of time before this Tory government under Mrs May implodes.Be patient.:winking:

Yes you keep saying that Barna....but if this poll was in anyway correct they will go straight back in.

As said previously Labour in my opinion should be streets ahead...why aren't they?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yes you keep saying that Barna....but if this poll was in anyway correct they will go straight back in.

As said previously Labour in my opinion should be streets ahead...why aren't they?

Polls tend to narrow once a GE is called as you may have noticed last time around.:winking:

There's plenty of time for Mrs May to **** up the Brexit negotiations and the economy yet and give Labour a chance to put things right.

 

[callan]

Polls tend to narrow once a GE is called as you may have noticed last time around.:winking:

There's plenty of time for Mrs May to **** up the Brexit negotiations and the economy yet and give Labour a chance to put things right.

So more about how bad the Tories are than how good Labour are :winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Meanwhile in an ICM poll Labour goes one point behind the Tories....and both May and Corbyn according to the poll are failing to enthuse voters.

Not a Corbyn fan particularly but I would have thought we should expect to see him and Labour with a commanding lead.

And yes I know its just a poll and they have been proved wrong in the past...but how far ahead of Tories should Labour be when faced with such an inept and weak Government?

Survation (who called the GE result correctly) still have Labour with a healthy lead. The others are generally saying neck and neck. But Labour were 20% behind in the polls when the GE was called and made up all that ground when campaigning. The Labour membership is around 600,000 and Tories under 100,000 and in Momentum there is a big advantage in organising canvassing and a very effective social media presence. Add to that the public warm to Corbyn the more they hear from him and that the manifesto was packed with ideas.
The real change at the next election will be who will replace May. But all of their other options divide opinion – up until she called the snap election she was their least alienating option.

IMO if Labour are neck and neck when the next GE is called then they will surge on from there. During a campaign is when the current Labour set up come into their own.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So more about how bad the Tories are than how good Labour are :winking:

On the contrary Labour produced a wonderful manifesto last time around which won them million of votes.I'm confident that history will repeat itself.:smiles:

 

[londonblue]

You clearly don't seem to accept ,however,that it is perfectly possible to be anti-zionist but not ant-semitic (as KL is IMO and I certainly am).

Zionism is purely and simply the belief that Israel has a right to exist. How can you be anti-zionist, unless you want Israel wiped from the map? What I have always said is that criticism of the Israeli government and its policies (which is nothing to do with Zionism) is perfectly acceptable so long as you don't expect higher standards from Israel than you expect from your own country.