Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Uncle Leo]

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No talk of peace in that article. Doesn't mean there was not talk of peace.

In answer to Barna - this is why Livingstone should retire from politics and do some gardening. We are ready to change this country for the better and rid ourselves of this incompetent government and we haven't got the time and energy to use on discussing people who have no real influence on the current movement. Whatever your thoughts on Livingstone he will be used as a distraction by people who want to keep discussing the past as they don't have positive things to discuss in the present.

Livingstone is of more use to Tories than to Labour currently.

***,

Obviously,we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.While I agree that Labour is effectively a government in waiting, I don't think KL's role is necessarily 100% in the past.I believe that even though he's retired now he could still play a part in Labour's future.As I said before,he certainly won't go willingly ,that's not in his nature.Nor do I believe in allowing the Tory press to set Labour's agenda.

 

[Lord Football]

I met Ken Livingstone. He was hosting the Mayor London's Reception at the Trade Union Congress. It was odd therefore, that he failed completely to mention the trade union movement, or the RMT who at the time were embroiled in an on-going industrial struggle with TFL, or indeed anything else other than himself and Boris Johnson. He didn't however mention Hitler.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So an apology with an insult thrown in......How left wing of you.

Still never mind I was accused in the same manner by Tangled when I posted that his hero, McGuiness fired the first shots on Bloody Sunday....Which has been proved to be true.

Michael Stone was going to kill our Ken. He is more famous for the funeral gun and grenade attack which was caught on camera. He thought the intelligent services were onto him.....Probably didn't realise they would have let it happen.

I'm certainly aware that MM, (hardly a hero of mine,btw), was accused of this.I'm certainly not aware that it "has been proved to be true."

"The (Saville) inquiry concluded that, although McGuinness was "engaged in paramilitary activity" at the time of Bloody Sunday and had probably been armed with a Thompson submachine gun, there was insufficient evidence to make any finding other than they were "sure that he did not engage in any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_McGuinness

 

[londonblue]

But ********* did announce there would be an inquiry into KLs antics didn't he? If so, why has it still not even started?

Turns out I was right...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

But ********* did announce there would be an inquiry into KLs antics didn't he? If so, why has it still not even started?

Turns out I was right...

Quoting yourself? :winking:

 

[londonblue]

Quoting yourself? :winking:

Making a point that I was right. ********* doesn't take racism seriously.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Making a point that I was right. ********* doesn't take racism seriously.

KL is anti-zionist not anti -semitic.How is that racist? JC has wisely (IMO) tried to stay out of the fray.After all KL has now been banned indefinitely.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Making a point that I was right. ********* doesn't take racism seriously.

I don't think he is a member of Shrimperzone but if he was he would probably pick you up on the racist nickname.

 

[londonblue]

KL is anti-zionist not anti -semitic.How is that racist? JC has wisely (IMO) tried to stay out of the fray.After all KL has now been banned indefinitely.

He's anti semitic, or at least he spouts anti Semitic views. If you don't know the difference you need educating.

But even that isn't the point. The point is a year after saying there would be an enquiry ********* hasn't got round to it. Maybe he's too busy also turning a blind eye to Momentum/Militant's harassment and bullying of long standing members of the party to get on with it. We can only speculate the reason, but whatever the reason it's pretty clear he doesn't take racism seriously.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

He's anti semitic, or at least he spouts anti Semitic views. If you don't know the difference you need educating.

But even that isn't the point. The point is a year after saying there would be an enquiry ********* hasn't got round to it. Maybe he's too busy also turning a blind eye to Momentum/Militant's harassment and bullying of long standing members of the party to get on with it. We can only speculate the reason, but whatever the reason it's pretty clear he doesn't take racism seriously.

No he isn't. Find an anti Semitic quote or stop repeating the lie.
Livingstone is indefinitely suspended which avoids a court case and keeps him away from the party so is a sensible pragmatic solution. But Corbyn can't take credit for it as it is the not in his jurisdiction.

Maybe you should be grateful for pragmatism as maybe it's in that spirit that no one is calling for you to be disciplined on here for continued use of racist nicknames.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

He's anti semitic, or at least he spouts anti Semitic views. If you don't know the difference you need educating.

But even that isn't the point. The point is a year after saying there would be an enquiry ********* hasn't got round to it. Maybe he's too busy also turning a blind eye to Momentum/Militant's harassment and bullying of long standing members of the party to get on with it. We can only speculate the reason, but whatever the reason it's pretty clear he doesn't take racism seriously.

I think I know the difference, thanks, as someone who's been to Israel on 3 occasions, (twice to visit an Israeli girlfriend).Also as the father of a young adult daughter who has a Jewish boyfriend.

As I said previously,KL has been indefinitely suspended since JC first announced an enquiry into the matter and I believe JC has wisely decided to stay above the fray.After all.KL was suspended for "bringing the party into disrepute" and this matter has been dealt with internally to most people's satisfaction (though evidently not to yours).

Momentum should not be confused with Militant,btw.Momentum is a political movement which grew out of JC's campaign for the leadership of the PLP.Militant was very much an 80's entryist movement and is now effectively defunct.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

No he isn't. Find an anti Semitic quote or stop repeating the lie.
Livingstone is indefinitely suspended which avoids a court case and keeps him away from the party so is a sensible pragmatic solution. But Corbyn can't take credit for it as it is the not in his jurisdiction.

Maybe you should be grateful for pragmatism as maybe it's in that spirit that no one is calling for you to be disciplined on here for continued use of racist nicknames.

Trying to get someone banned again are you?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Trying to get someone banned again are you?

nope, just highlighting the hypocrisy.
Highlighting is something you should maybe practice as if you highlight half a sentence you can change the context of what is being said.
'Again' implies repeating something from the past which is again not the case.

 

[londonblue]

No he isn't. Find an anti Semitic quote or stop repeating the lie.
Livingstone is indefinitely suspended which avoids a court case and keeps him away from the party so is a sensible pragmatic solution. But Corbyn can't take credit for it as it is the not in his jurisdiction.

Maybe you should be grateful for pragmatism as maybe it's in that spirit that no one is calling for you to be disciplined on here for continued use of racist nicknames.

Yes he is. If you can't see it then you also need educating, and SZ isn't the place for an in depth discussion. But more importantly, what gives you the right to tell the Jewish community (whose papers I read, and people I speak to) are wrong? Why is it that with any other form of racism you're happy to listen to the victims, but with this you're not?

Moreover, would you say the way to deal with crime is to avoid punishing the perpetrator? I wouldn't. The real way to punish someone is to try them and (assuming you find them guilty) then punish them. Suspension because you haven't got round to the investigation shows a complete lack of care.

 

[londonblue]

I think I know the difference, thanks, as someone who's been to Israel on 3 occasions, (twice to visit an Israeli girlfriend).Also as the father of a young adult daughter who has a Jewish boyfriend.

As I said previously,KL has been indefinitely suspended since JC first announced an enquiry into the matter and I believe JC has wisely decided to stay above the fray.After all.KL was suspended for "bringing the party into disrepute" and this matter has been dealt with internally to most people's satisfaction (though evidently not to yours).

Momentum should not be confused with Militant,btw.Momentum is a political movement which grew out of JC's campaign for the leadership of the PLP.Militant was very much an 80's entryist movement and is now effectively defunct.

Just because you've been to Israel doesn't make you an expert. Especially as at least 2 of those occasions were in the 1970s.

Momentum is Militant in a new guise.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Just because you've been to Israel doesn't make you an expert. Especially as at least 2 of those occasions were in the 1970s.

Momentum is Militant in a new guise.

I've never claimed to be an expert.The point of my post was to show that I'm not anti-semitic.But I most certainly am anti-zionist.That is also true for KL I believe.

Your point about Momentum is just plain wrong.Stop reading the Tory press.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Just because you've been to Israel doesn't make you an expert. Especially as at least 2 of those occasions were in the 1970s.

Momentum is Militant in a new guise.

could you breakdown the similarities of the two organisations please?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

could you breakdown the similarities of the two organisations please?

I would hope someone's writing a book on the differences,atm.:winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yes he is. If you can't see it then you also need educating, and SZ isn't the place for an in depth discussion. But more importantly, what gives you the right to tell the Jewish community (whose papers I read, and people I speak to) are wrong? Why is it that with any other form of racism you're happy to listen to the victims, but with this you're not?

Moreover, would you say the way to deal with crime is to avoid punishing the perpetrator? I wouldn't. The real way to punish someone is to try them and (assuming you find them guilty) then punish them. Suspension because you haven't got round to the investigation shows a complete lack of care.

He hasn’t made any anti-Semitic comments so it makes sense to assume he isn’t anti-Semitic. Just saying ‘yes he is’ is not a winning argument.

I have never told the Jewish community they are wrong. Within the Jewish Community there are as many different opinions as there are in any other Community. There is not even a consensus of the community towards Israel and the actions of its government let alone any other political attitudes. I doubt they elected you their spokesperson – you are just someone with an opinion who is posting on a football forum – the same as the rest of us.

I have never said I wouldn’t be willing to listen to any victims – that is a childish baseless comment.

There is no crime so you looking for a punishment to give you some kind of closure doesn’t fit. Yet again – he is suspended indefinitely – that is a result of an investigation that found he brought the party into disrepute. This is a sensible and pragmatic solution and better than going to court and racking through a period of history that for community cohesion is best not given a platform. Gobshites like Livingstone and Boris Johnson use Hitler in contexts that are not constructive – these kind of people reach a point where they are better off sidelined, but on this no crime has been committed.