Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[EastStandBlue]

If you listen to the messages coming from Chuka its nearly always about the EU

That just might have something to do with the fact that Lambeth voted 80% to remain in the EU.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

That just might have something to do with the fact that Lambeth voted 80% to remain in the EU.

yes, but I follow him on twitter and its £350m constantly. Its a valid point that we all make from time to time, but I think in a strange turn of fate he is acting like an eternal protester and most of the rest of the party are acting like a government in waiting. We can take them down by highlighting their many unpopular policies, then we can deal with their policy that appeals to 50% of the population and change the dialogue and agenda on that.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Personally, I think the young should get out there and vote for their socialist utopia. That way, if it all goes wrong and Corbyn and co bankrupt the country then the young can take solice from that that it was their choice to **** their own future.

Of course, it will still be the tories fault.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

pretty much this, I think the three of us can agree that getting this government to fall over sooner rather than later has to be the priority. The last 6 weeks saw massive strides in unifying behind the manifesto and the massive increase in popularity in the party. Chuka's amendment was never going anywhere and was just a distraction. If you listen to the messages coming from Chuka its nearly always about the EU, and that subject splits the country down the middle. The need now is to focus on Labour policies that distinguish them from the Tories - that is how to beat them. By beating them Labour can then take over the EU negotiations and change the track on where that is going.
There is an argument that Corbyn over reacted, but also one that he has to put down a marker - stay on track and get rid of this wretched government.

so something which has genuine cross party support and could unite all sides to actually deliver that outcome 'was never going anywhere' but the pointless grandstanding of the ammendment to increase public sector pay was worthwhile?

The need now is to focus on Labour policies that distinguish them from the Tories
and thus ignore those where our Dear Leader is supporting the Tory Government exactly?

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

It's fairly well known that JC and JM are fairly lukewarm about the EU at best.I certainly don't want "the hardest possible Brexit",though I accept that the British people voted to leave the EU (by a narrow majority).FWIW,I happen to think that the best deal over Brexit would be achieved by Labour.

Btw,I think it was Lenin who first coined the phrase "useful idiots.":winking:

Please enlighten me how a Labour hard Brexit is better than, or even different to, an identical Tory hard Brexit?

I'll get the popcorn, this is going to be good. It never ceases to amaze me how people like you tie yourself in knots trying to prove that 2+2=5

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

yes, but I follow him on twitter and its £350m constantly. Its a valid point that we all make from time to time, but I think in a strange turn of fate he is acting like an eternal protester and most of the rest of the party are acting like a government in waiting. We can take them down by highlighting their many unpopular policies, then we can deal with their policy that appeals to 50% of the population and change the dialogue and agenda on that.

I assume that you are well aware of the irony of your statement right here from a committed follower of The Dear Leader

 

[Hotman]

Please enlighten me how a Labour hard Brexit is better than, or even different to, an identical Tory hard Brexit?

I'll get the popcorn, this is going to be good. It never ceases to amaze me how people like you tie yourself in knots trying to prove that 2+2=5

Oh oh, you forgot, it will be managed by "Sir Keir Starmer QC" (have I forget any other embellishments for his name?), a human rights lawyer. Clearly more experienced in the EU and European politics than David Davis (former Minister of State for Europe), or the previously incorrect comparison of Boris Johnson (who reported on EU politics for several years).

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I assume that you are well aware of the irony of your statement right here from a committed follower of The Dear Leader

the point is that Corbyn was accused prior to the election of pursuing tactics that were just protest, then with the manifesto and the GE campaign he stopped being accused of that - that is what I was referring to with Chuka - he is falling into that trap at the point were the rest of the party have progressed from that

Switching to calling him Dear Leader diminishes your point and makes it sound like you are the one who is biased. If you just use someone's name it makes your point sound more reasonable. As someone who canvassed for Labour under Kinnock, Blair, Brown, Milliband and Corbyn its pretty clear that I back the party rather than an individual, and I'm very pleased at the progress that the party has made over the last few months and I anticipate that continuing.

 

[londonblue]

the point is that Corbyn was accused prior to the election of pursuing tactics that were just protest, then with the manifesto and the GE campaign he stopped being accused of that - that is what I was referring to with Chuka - he is falling into that trap at the point were the rest of the party have progressed from that

Switching to calling him Dear Leader diminishes your point and makes it sound like you are the one who is biased. If you just use someone's name it makes your point sound more reasonable. As someone who canvassed for Labour under Kinnock, Blair, Brown, Milliband and Corbyn its pretty clear that I back the party rather than an individual, and I'm very pleased at the progress that the party has made over the last few months and I anticipate that continuing.

You mean instead of calling him ********* Corduroy?

:hilarious:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You mean instead of calling him ********* Corduroy?

:hilarious:

exactly - I don't like dragging people into a discussion they may not want to be dragged into, but I was thinking of your constant use of Corduroy and Camerscum diminishing the points you want to get across. Not aware of you using one for May - could be that you are a bit of a fan?

 

[londonblue]

exactly - I don't like dragging people into a discussion they may not want to be dragged into, but I was thinking of your constant use of Corduroy and Camerscum diminishing the points you want to get across. Not aware of you using one for May - could be that you are a bit of a fan?

If truth be told I don't make them up, I'm not that creative. I haven't seen one for May yet. Personally I think ********* is brilliant and sums him up better than Corduroy.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

the point I was making with calling him The Dear Leader is a long-winded one.

Basically, when I was young I used to hang around with the far left. I was never a member of these nutty fringe organisations but I did hang around with them because I was involved with things like Stop The War that attracted/were taken over by the far left.
The far left have dangerous tendancy towards hero worship.
The way that some people, not only the far left but some of the new school, who support Corbyn has a similar tendancy. The odd thing is that, for some of them, it's not about him. Who ever the leader/figurehead is would be treated with the same Dear Leader deference.
There is a dangerous tendancy at the moment towards some of the 2+2=5 sentiment among many of those who support Corbyn. I don't like that from anyone, especially not from the Party i've been a member of for over 1/3 of my life.
so it's not just a Corbyn point, it's also about those around/supportive of him. And it worries me

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If truth be told I don't make them up, I'm not that creative. I haven't seen one for May yet. Personally I think ********* is brilliant and sums him up better than Corduroy.

Maybot seems to be the one used by people who don't like using real names.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

the point I was making with calling him The Dear Leader is a long-winded one.

Basically, when I was young I used to hang around with the far left. I was never a member of these nutty fringe organisations but I did hang around with them because I was involved with things like Stop The War that attracted/were taken over by the far left.
The far left have dangerous tendancy towards hero worship.
The way that some people, not only the far left but some of the new school, who support Corbyn has a similar tendancy. The odd thing is that, for some of them, it's not about him. Who ever the leader/figurehead is would be treated with the same Dear Leader deference.
There is a dangerous tendancy at the moment towards some of the 2+2=5 sentiment among many of those who support Corbyn. I don't like that from anyone, especially not from the Party i've been a member of for over 1/3 of my life.
so it's not just a Corbyn point, it's also about those around/supportive of him. And it worries me

I know what you are saying, when I was first involved in the party at 16 I knew the people who would sell Socialist Worker outside SEEVIC and I got to know their extended group. I didn't get properly involved with them because they would put candidates up against Labour. I could see the attraction though as they were more geared to specific causes and action whereas local Labour meetings had to discuss boring stuff like road repairs.
Because of what I read in the media and because of the reaction of Iain McNicol I assumed Momentum were just a new Militant or SWP but nothing bares that out. Channel 4 Dispatches had a mole in there for 6 months and found no dirt on them. Because I have canvassed a marginal constituency I met a lot of people who were either Momentum members or had used their election tools to become active. The people I have met on this election are some of the nicest people I have ever met and they helped turn a Tory seat into a comfortable Labour seat. So I have seen Momentum in action and they are very useful people to have around.

Thatcher and Blair inspired people beyond party politics not just because of policy but because they had a certain way about them that appealed to a wide audience. No one since Blair has had that really. It's is starting to look like Corbyn has it and if some people want to have him as a hero I don't see that as a problem. Look at the manifesto - that is a big change on what was offered in 2015 and 2010 and when May announced the election Labour basically let Corbyn take ownership of it so success or failure was his. That means he has been thrust forward and means that those who became engaged in 2017 see him as the reason. So I say don't fear the enthusiasm, take it as a gift to get the party into power. If people want a figurehead to get behind then they can have one. He knows how to rock a crowd and his name fits well into a chant. The Tories would kill for someone who could stir up a bit of enthusiasm.

Form my perspective - if that manifesto appeals to you then promote it in whatever way works with the public. At the moment we are much better than the Tories at this so doubting the methods is counterproductive.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Please enlighten me how a Labour hard Brexit is better than, or even different to, an identical Tory hard Brexit?

I'll get the popcorn, this is going to be good. It never ceases to amaze me how people like you tie yourself in knots trying to prove that 2+2=5

Labour's position is that they want tariff free access to the single market after Brexit.This does not nececesarily means ruling out membership of the single market or even the customs union at the beginning of talks (like the Tories).
Labour (like the Tories) are committed to the ending of free movement.QED.

Edit.I forgot to mention tha Labour's Brexit approach prioritisies jobs and the UK economy not being disadvantaged by the eventual Brexit deal we make with the EU.While the Tories emphasis is merely restricted to controlling immigration as its main priority.

 

[londonblue]

Maybot seems to be the one used by people who don't like using real names.

Don't like it. It sounds too much like Mo Farah, and I like Mo.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/83...ked-BBC-sketch-tuition-fees-mash-report-video

Bet they don't show this in the North Nineteen Public House.

 

[MK Shrimper]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/83...ked-BBC-sketch-tuition-fees-mash-report-video

Bet they don't show this in the North Nineteen Public House.

Hilarious. My mate's lad is in the second year of his degree and is already on £40K's worth of debt. How the **** this was allowed to happen?

 

[Benfleet A1]

Hilarious. My mate's lad is in the second year of his degree and is already on £40K's worth of debt. How the **** this was allowed to happen?

Ask the last Labour Goverment

 

[MK Shrimper]

Ask the last Labour Goverment

Didn't agree with it then and I certainly didn't agree with it when the Tories tripled it.