Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[londonblue]

I see it as something where you could express a preference but not something to put on a list of 'this man should not be leader because...' - just makes the argument weaker IMO

Depends on how you see it. I personally see it as not taking ownership, i.e. not leading. Personally I want my leaders to lead. Corduroy needs to be seen to be leading, not just because he failed to convince a third of Labour voters to vote remain, but because he needs to convince the rest of population that he's leadership material. Again, he's failing abjectly at that.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Depends on how you see it. I personally see it as not taking ownership, i.e. not leading. Personally I want my leaders to lead. Corduroy needs to be seen to be leading, not just because he failed to convince a third of Labour voters to vote remain, but because he needs to convince the rest of population that he's leadership material. Again, he's failing abjectly at that.

If you are judging him on the amount of his voters that voted Remain then he is leagues ahead of any other party leader other than SNP.

 

[londonblue]

If you are judging him on the amount of his voters that voted Remain then he is leagues ahead of any other party leader other than SNP.

I'm not. I'm looking at that, taking into account how most left leaning people voted. I'm also looking at how his words and actions would come over to the general population and not just his supporters. On both levels he failed miserably.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm not. I'm looking at that, taking into account how most left leaning people voted. I'm also looking at how his words and actions would come over to the general population and not just his supporters. On both levels he failed miserably.

In terms of the EU I think his words would have come across as very honest - that it's imperfect but is best for the UK to stay in and try to improve it. No threat of punishing budgets, WW3 or promises of £350m a week for NHS.

 

[londonblue]

In terms of the EU I think his words would have come across as very honest - that it's imperfect but is best for the UK to stay in and try to improve it. No threat of punishing budgets, WW3 or promises of £350m a week for NHS.

That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing what was written and then changed by Corduroy. Not taking ownership is not leadership.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing what was written and then changed by Corduroy. Not taking ownership is not leadership.

as he would be stating the words as his own it would make sense that he would change things to fit in with how he wanted to say it. I understand what you are saying about the word I making it come from him, but that is generally not his style he generally talks from an 'us' point of view than an 'I' point of view - that fits in better with his overall stance on policy as a whole - an all in it together angle.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Dispatches, with Kinnock doing a star turn, showed some facets of JC, Militant and Trotskys that suggest that Corduroy will be the end of an Electable Labour Party. Sobering issues exposed.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Dispatches, with Kinnock doing a star turn, showed some facets of JC, Militant and Trotskys that suggest that Corduroy will be the end of an Electable Labour Party. Sobering issues exposed.

They had an undercover reporter volunteer then get a paid job for Momentum and they filmed for 6 months. In that time they managed to record no aggression, no anti-Semitism, no homophobia, no sexism. They managed to film at public meetings that were.....public anyway! The only revelation was that Momentum - a group set up to support Corbyn have been....supporting Corbyn. Was like a GCSE project rather than investigative journalism.
The party membership has doubled and within the extra 300,000 members there will be a handful from SWP but they are being purged along with people that have retweeted the Greens and bizarely someone for stating the '****ing love the Foo Fighters'!

 

[RHB]

They had an undercover reporter volunteer then get a paid job for Momentum and they filmed for 6 months. In that time they managed to record no aggression, no anti-Semitism, no homophobia, no sexism. They managed to film at public meetings that were.....public anyway! The only revelation was that Momentum - a group set up to support Corbyn have been....supporting Corbyn. Was like a GCSE project rather than investigative journalism.
The party membership has doubled and within the extra 300,000 members there will be a handful from SWP but they are being purged along with people that have retweeted the Greens and bizarely someone for stating the '****ing love the Foo Fighters'!

There is no doubt that Labour Party membership has risen to very healthy levels, possibly even record levels? I don't know. And within those numbers Corbyn is obviously the number one man. Maybe the next leadership election will show just how much support he now has. I still can't see that there has been a groundswell of support for him outside of the Party faithful. I know you have quoted several by-elections which Labour won, but I remain to be convinced that enough of the nation want a quick return of a Labour Government. I will reserve final judgement until after the Leadership event but I'm probably in Kinnock's corner at the moment.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

There is no doubt that Labour Party membership has risen to very healthy levels, possibly even record levels? I don't know. And within those numbers Corbyn is obviously the number one man. Maybe the next leadership election will show just how much support he now has. I still can't see that there has been a groundswell of support for him outside of the Party faithful. I know you have quoted several by-elections which Labour won, but I remain to be convinced that enough of the nation what a quick return of a Labour Government. I will reserve final judgement until after the Leadership event but I'm probably in Kinnock's corner at the moment.

Kinnock had 9 years to prove his worth and he lost two elections. I'm not criticising him I'm just pointing out that you wouldn't turn to him for advice on winning elections. Corbyn had 9 months before the internal election distraction and that is not long enough to assess. On announcing a scheme to remove him the amount of extra people who paid £25 to vote was more than the whole of the Tory membership - it took 48 hours for that number to want to get involved - extras on top of the January membership. So with that backing the party has no choice but to give him a fair shot.

 

[Blueronron]

They had an undercover reporter volunteer then get a paid job for Momentum and they filmed for 6 months. In that time they managed to record no aggression, no anti-Semitism, no homophobia, no sexism. They managed to film at public meetings that were.....public anyway! The only revelation was that Momentum - a group set up to support Corbyn have been....supporting Corbyn. Was like a GCSE project rather than investigative journalism.
The party membership has doubled and within the extra 300,000 members there will be a handful from SWP but they are being purged along with people that have retweeted the Greens and bizarely someone for stating the '****ing love the Foo Fighters'!

Totally agree ***, thought Panarama let its self down. What I find funny is in any political party you will have supporters from a different angle, look at the Tories with UKIP links and in the "old days" National Front.
Whether you believe or distrust JC, he is offering something different to the political front, and simple you vote for Labour, boycott your vote (Shameful), vote for an alternative party, or try and set up a new party with people who have your beliefs.
I don't agree with everything JC states nor do I disagree on all of TM Tory policies, however for my own belief and the future of country, I honestly believe JC should be given a chance.
You must remember we are a slanted country controlled by Right wing papers/media outlets, fact not fiction, and if you are stupid enough to be swayed by The Sun /Mail newspaper articles, then there is no hope for you or the country.
Easy to blame immigrants on to-days world problems, when really its laying on our own door step much of the time.
I agree with Tories that family values make the person, but they seem to forget the mess they created in the 1980's "Where Greed was good ", everyone had their noses in the golden trough and a many paid the price with higher interest rates, unemployment, towns abandoned.
Quotes like Tebbitt "Get on your bike and find work" summed up their views. Personally feel this Government is a Wolf in sheep's clothing, and Mr Cameroon and Mr Osborne should hold their heads in shame, Brexit was an easy exit for them and they will be known as the Two who fell on their Brexit sword, rather than two imbeciles who could not manage a **** up in a brewery


UTS

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Zac Goldsmith 'Dispatches was weak. It will only reinforce the view that the Establishment wants to trash Corbyn. Suspect it'll have the opposite effect.'

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37413848

SEE JC intends to put Labour on an election footing when he wins this uncessary leadership contest at the weekend.

Good.That should concentrate a few hearts and minds.

 

[londonblue]

as he would be stating the words as his own it would make sense that he would change things to fit in with how he wanted to say it. I understand what you are saying about the word I making it come from him, but that is generally not his style he generally talks from an 'us' point of view than an 'I' point of view - that fits in better with his overall stance on policy as a whole - an all in it together angle.

Correct. He's not leadership material.

 

[londonblue]

Kinnock had 9 years to prove his worth and he lost two elections. I'm not criticising him I'm just pointing out that you wouldn't turn to him for advice on winning elections. Corbyn had 9 months before the internal election distraction and that is not long enough to assess. On announcing a scheme to remove him the amount of extra people who paid £25 to vote was more than the whole of the Tory membership - it took 48 hours for that number to want to get involved - extras on top of the January membership. So with that backing the party has no choice but to give him a fair shot.

No, but he knows only too well what loses an election. His views (whatever they are - I haven't seen any interviews with him) are therefore very relevant.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

No, but he knows only too well what loses an election. His views (whatever they are - I haven't seen any interviews with him) are therefore very relevant.

Maybe dig out the interviews first then.

 

[Napster]

and if you are stupid enough to be swayed by The Sun /Mail newspaper articles, then there is no hope for you or the country.

UTS

Intellectual snobbery of the highest order.

 

[londonblue]

Maybe dig out the interviews first then.

My point isn't about what he said. My point is about his credibility, which you've dismissed because he had the temerity to lose two elections. I guess you'll be reminded of that when Corduroy does the same.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

My point isn't about what he said. My point is about his credibility, which you've dismissed because he had the temerity to lose two elections. I guess you'll be reminded of that when Corduroy does the same.

but you are agreeing with what Kinnock said despite not knowing what he said

 

[londonblue]

but you are agreeing with what Kinnock said despite not knowing what he said

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said. I saying whatever he says has credibility because he knows what it takes to lose an election. I assume from your reaction you don't agree with what he says, and are therefore dismissing his views. I'm saying don't dismiss his views because he knows what he's talking about, whatever that is, although you've now made that pretty obvious!