Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[mrsblue]

The current government will have the next 4 and a bit years to do whatever they are going to do. Whatever they do will be on behalf of democracy. Why then are you so extremist towards the Labour Party? They are the next largest democratic party in the UK and therefore have a part to play in parliament. Or do you subscribe to a one party state as long as it is Tory?

Where do i start ?

Illegal war,
The invasion of Iraq has led to the ME being completely unstable and every single one of us has become a target.That war had no outcome apart from killing SH,pointless and downright dangerous.

Open door immigration,
What a disaster !,workers wages have been driven into the ground,prisons overflowing,the welfare bill has burdened every single taxpayer,this policy was designed just to win votes IMO.

National debt,
You cannot make it up,the level of debt reached outrageous proportions yet Labour left their calling card "no money left".

Labour IMO destroyed this country with their madcap schemes and policies,many millions agree with this view hence why they were battered in the GE,Scotland gave them such a kicking that they will never regain power there.

Corbyn is now the favourite which is all good as it guarantees they will never be in power again.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Where do i start ?

ME being completely unstable

I'm sure we all did wonder sometimes......

 

[mrsblue]

I'm sure we all did wonder sometimes......

Haha you got me!

Nice work.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Since when did any prospective voters opinion not count?....I suspect its this kind of elitist thinking that has damaged Labour almost beyond repair.
Drop the holier than thou attitude and start listening to voters concerns and Labour might stand a chance....

It's not elitist it's making the point that there is no point having parties that are indistinguishable from each other. The Blair / Brown governments had a lot of 'Labour' policies but a lot of policies that did not fit the tradition of the party and in doing so frustrated a lot of party volunteers and lost that support.
The party has not been damaged beyond repair - it lost one election so narrowly that it lost to a coalition, then increased its vote at the next election in England but lost in Scotland - to a left wing party.
Offering something different and not trying to be a bit Tory a bit UKIP a bit Lib could well be what the public wants.

 

[mrsblue]

It's not elitist it's making the point that there is no point having parties that are indistinguishable from each other. The Blair / Brown governments had a lot of 'Labour' policies but a lot of policies that did not fit the tradition of the party and in doing so frustrated a lot of party volunteers and lost that support.
The party has not been damaged beyond repair - it lost one election so narrowly that it lost to a coalition, then increased its vote at the next election in England but lost in Scotland - to a left wing party.
Offering something different and not trying to be a bit Tory a bit UKIP a bit Lib could well be what the public wants.

I just watched dear old Darren with his 30 year membership claim that the party will probably split,he added Corbyn will make the party unelectable and the public are now at the point of refusing to listen to anymore of their waffle.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I just watched dear old Darren with his 30 year membership claim that the party will probably split,he added Corbyn will make the party unelectable and the public are now at the point of refusing to listen to anymore of their waffle.

Darren is just being a bit dramatic right now, he'll no doubt calm down. His membership pre-dates Blair so he just needs to remember it hasn't always been this way.

 

[mrsblue]

Darren is just being a bit dramatic right now, he'll no doubt calm down. His membership pre-dates Blair so he just needs to remember it hasn't always been this way.

So far you have dismissed the electorate ,Darren,Blair,where will it all end :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It's not as though Labour lost the last election (or even the one before) by being too left-wing.

They lost because all they were offering the electorate was austerity-lite.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So far you have dismissed the electorate ,Darren,Blair,where will it all end :winking:

Not at all. I said that we shouldn't listen to Tories, Kippers and the ignorant. The majority of the electorate don't fit into those three. Darren is the equivalent to 'my mate down the pub knows this guy who said we never landed on the moon'. Blair was what we accepted as a route in, we should consider not having to take that kind of route in as we have the option to offer something different.
My guess is that the Tories will be split nationally over the EU and in London over airports more than Labour will over a new leader.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

They certainly do, which is why Tony Blair conjured up new Labour to appeal to the middle ground. If, as *** mentions, there is an upsurge of the left wing, return to roots in the party, I can see a new group forming from the centre right of the existing party. Sounds remarkably like the SDP of the 80s?

I can see why you say this but new parties are not breaking through and I don't think many would want to set up a new SDP when they have seen the Lib Dems fall apart and UKIP manage one MP after being given unprecedented media coverage. A new party with politics similar to SNP would make more sense as that has been seen to work at the last election but even that needs to achieve in 2020 to be considered a success rather than a one hit wonder.
I'm not saying ignore the undecided voter who opted for Tory I'm saying ignore the voter who has always voted Tory or switches from the Tories to UKIP and back again - they already have parties representing them.

 

[mrsblue]

Not at all. I said that we shouldn't listen to Tories, Kippers and the ignorant. The majority of the electorate don't fit into those three. Darren is the equivalent to 'my mate down the pub knows this guy who said we never landed on the moon'. Blair was what we accepted as a route in, we should consider not having to take that kind of route in as we have the option to offer something different.
My guess is that the Tories will be split nationally over the EU and in London over airports more than Labour will over a new leader.

Corbyn,Kendal,Mrs Balls,Burnham !

Which one could you see as PM?

 

[EastStandBlue]

I tell you what, for someone whose objective on this thread - in his/her own admission - is to point out "they're all as bad as eachother", mrsblue doesn't half come out with a lot of posts about Labour.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I tell you what, for someone whose objective on this thread - in his/her own admission - is to point out "they're all as bad as eachother", mrsblue doesn't half come out with a lot of posts about Labour.

He/she will literally post about anything with a zero knowledge / interest start point. Calling Cooper 'Mrs Balls' is making me think that the gender gossip may be right.
I think his / her purpose in life is to break the forum by swamping it with disinformation.

 

[mrsblue]

I tell you what, for someone whose objective on this thread - in his/her own admission - is to point out "they're all as bad as eachother", mrsblue doesn't half come out with a lot of posts about Labour.

Come on ESB,which one of the four can you see as PM.

 

[mrsblue]

Margaret Beckett has just admitted she was wrong in voting for Corbyn !

Chaos is the new in word for Labour:smile:

 

[RHB]

Where do i start ?

Illegal war,
The invasion of Iraq has led to the ME being completely unstable and every single one of us has become a target.That war had no outcome apart from killing SH,pointless and downright dangerous.

Open door immigration,
What a disaster !,workers wages have been driven into the ground,prisons overflowing,the welfare bill has burdened every single taxpayer,this policy was designed just to win votes IMO.

National debt,
You cannot make it up,the level of debt reached outrageous proportions yet Labour left their calling card "no money left".

Labour IMO destroyed this country with their madcap schemes and policies,many millions agree with this view hence why they were battered in the GE,Scotland gave them such a kicking that they will never regain power there.

Corbyn is now the favourite which is all good as it guarantees they will never be in power again.

Wow, that's a lot of headlines there.....

Illegal War - What was illegal about it? Parliament voted to enter into the conflict, which appeared to be the right course at the time. I don't recall any Tory opposition to it. Nobody can dispute that the end outcome did help to de-stabilise Iraq but that was more about how the allies tried to manage the peace rather than the military invasion.

Open door immigration - The government of the day, Labour, signed up to Immigration policies presented by the European Union, of which we are full members. Again, I doubt whether a Tory Government at that time would have said no, nor did the Tories go mad at the decision at the time.

National Debt - Not quite sure what you mean with this one. Are you suggesting that our level of national debt had no connection with the financial problems which were world wide at the time? As for the "no money left" comment, well that was a childish parting shot from a ****ed off Chancellor who should have known better. As for your last statement, nothing is ever guaranteed in politics.

I'm still waiting to hear whether you are up for a one party state rather than democracy.

 

[callan]

Wow, that's a lot of headlines there.....

Illegal War - What was illegal about it? Parliament voted to enter into the conflict, which appeared to be the right course at the time. I don't recall any Tory opposition to it. Nobody can dispute that the end outcome did help to de-stabilise Iraq but that was more about how the allies tried to manage the peace rather than the military invasion.

Open door immigration - The government of the day, Labour, signed up to Immigration policies presented by the European Union, of which we are full members. Again, I doubt whether a Tory Government at that time would have said no, nor did the Tories go mad at the decision at the time.

National Debt - Not quite sure what you mean with this one. Are you suggesting that our level of national debt had no connection with the financial problems which were world wide at the time? As for the "no money left" comment, well that was a childish parting shot from a ****ed off Chancellor who should have known better. As for your last statement, nothing is ever guaranteed in politics.

I'm still waiting to hear whether you are up for a one party state rather than democracy.

One wonders having read this why Labour apologised for immigration, and belatedly the economy.
And of course the UN were absolutely wrong to call the Iraq war illegal, heaven help us if Saddam had set off all those WMDs he didn't have.

The truth is Labour were unelectable at the last 2 elections as they are too right wing for Scotland and untrusted in England.

Labour are between a rock and a hard place on where they go from here.

 

[mrsblue]

Wow, that's a lot of headlines there.....

Illegal War - What was illegal about it? Parliament voted to enter into the conflict, which appeared to be the right course at the time. I don't recall any Tory opposition to it. Nobody can dispute that the end outcome did help to de-stabilise Iraq but that was more about how the allies tried to manage the peace rather than the military invasion.

Open door immigration - The government of the day, Labour, signed up to Immigration policies presented by the European Union, of which we are full members. Again, I doubt whether a Tory Government at that time would have said no, nor did the Tories go mad at the decision at the time.

National Debt - Not quite sure what you mean with this one. Are you suggesting that our level of national debt had no connection with the financial problems which were world wide at the time? As for the "no money left" comment, well that was a childish parting shot from a ****ed off Chancellor who should have known better. As for your last statement, nothing is ever guaranteed in politics.

I'm still waiting to hear whether you are up for a one party state rather than democracy.

Firstly I don't support the Tories.
The Iraq war was illegal as parliament were hoodwinked in believing the dossier of WMD,hence why the current enquiry has had smokescreen upon smokescreen and still after 6 years hasn't been concluded.

Immigration,
Labour concluded themselves it would be good for the country ,Labour did create 1 million jobs with 950,000 going to immigrants,I and many millions never wanted such a policy yet they arrived in their millions,Labour insisted they expected around 30,000 from the Eastern Bloc yet how many arrived 700,000.

One party state,
Definately not,what we require IMO is good sound fair policies for the masses,decent medical care,good justice system,yet they all fail again and again,

 

[EastStandBlue]

Firstly I don't support the Tories.

Could've fooled me.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Firstly I don't support the Tories.
The Iraq war was illegal as parliament were hoodwinked in believing the dossier of WMD,hence why the current enquiry has had smokescreen upon smokescreen and still after 6 years hasn't been concluded.

Immigration,
Labour concluded themselves it would be good for the country ,Labour did create 1 million jobs with 950,000 going to immigrants,I and many millions never wanted such a policy yet they arrived in their millions,Labour insisted they expected around 30,000 from the Eastern Bloc yet how many arrived 700,000.

One party state,
Definately not,what we require IMO is good sound fair policies for the masses,decent medical care,good justice system,yet they all fail again and again,

Made up figures of course. Much quicker than research but not ideal for winning arguments.