Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[rigsby]

70%. Seventy percent. 7 out of every 10. 70%. Utter failure!

Remember that's 70% of people who still vote labour. I wonder how many of the 17m people who voted out, previously did vote Labour. Or are working class but will never vote Labour whilst it continues to despise them.

 

[Gremlin]

The Failure to make any in roads in Scotland.

In roads? You don't have to be very old to remember Scotland being a Labour heartland. The Scottish vote has been lost on Miliband & Corbyn's watch.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Remember that's 70% of people who still vote labour. I wonder how many of the 17m people who voted out, previously did vote Labour. Or are working class but will never vote Labour whilst it continues to despise them.

That's new level stuff right there, just trying to agree that for Remain Labour got 70% of their vote and if that is utter failure or not - I'm thinking not.

 

[rigsby]

That's new level stuff right there, just trying to agree that for Remain Labour got 70% of their vote and if that is utter failure or not - I'm thinking not.

The very fact that Labour backed the remain campaign shows how out of touch you are with ordinary people. I love the way people like Emily (£3m north London house, mock the people of Chatam) Thornbury says "We didn't listen".

No Emily you never do, you never will and we all know it. That's why you have already lost the next election.......I hope you are listening because I don't like the Bullingdon Boys any more than you.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The very fact that Labour backed the remain campaign shows how out of touch you are with ordinary people. I love the way people like Emily (£3m north London house, mock the people of Chatam) Thornbury says "We didn't listen".

No Emily you never do, you never will and we all know it. That's why you have already lost the next election.......I hope you are listening because I don't like the Bullingdon Boys any more than you.

Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dem, SNP, Plaid, the current PM all backed Remain - by your rationale only UKIP are listening, but then the result was 52/48 so by picking Leave or Remain you would only be listening to little over or little under half of the population - by your rationale.
My issue was less about listening and more about lying - £350m a week for NHS, world war 3, the entire population of Bulgaria moving here, a punishment budget - whole thing was run on lies. Not our nation's finest hour.

 

[rigsby]

Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dem, SNP, Plaid, the current PM all backed Remain - by your rationale only UKIP are listening, but then the result was 52/48 so by picking Leave or Remain you would only be listening to little over or little under half of the population - by your rationale.
My issue was less about listening and more about lying - £350m a week for NHS, world war 3, the entire population of Bulgaria moving here, a punishment budget - whole thing was run on lies. Not our nation's finest hour.

I would agree with that.

I'm surprised by how many people (from both sides) were fooled by such lies.

Whether you like it or not many people have had enough of the play ground politics of Westminster. The next election is all about Brexit. The party with the best deal will win.

So don't rule out UKIP having a say in the next GE. They are capable of winning more seats.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I would agree with that.

I'm surprised by how many people (from both sides) were fooled by such lies.

Whether you like it or not many people have had enough of the play ground politics of Westminster. The next election is all about Brexit. The party with the best deal will win.

So don't rule out UKIP having a say in the next GE. They are capable of winning more seats.

UKIP have been polling badly in recent by-elections and council elections - I would imagine most people see UKIP as having served their purpose.


Though if the realities of the EU exit deal seem poor then they may well have a resurgence - and I think this may well be the case.


It's an odd situation as personally I don't see it reflecting on Labour or LibDems too much as they are not involved in the negotiations. For me it is for the Tories to come out as heroes with a great deal, or villains with a bum deal.


So I agree EU exit will influence the next general election but I think mainly just in terms of how the Tories have managed it.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

In roads? You don't have to be very old to remember Scotland being a Labour heartland. The Scottish vote has been lost on Miliband & Corbyn's watch.

I think it's fair to say it was diluted much before that.Try Blair/Brown.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I think it's fair to say it was diluted much before that.Try Blair/Brown.

Labour votes in Scotland in general elections over the last 30 years...

1987 - 1.25m
1992 - 1.14m
1997 - 1.28m
2001 - 1.01m
2005 - 922k
2010 - 1.03m
2015 - 707k

So a gradual decline during the Blair years - from a high mark - a bounce back under Brown and then a fair drop under Miliband.

Yes, Miliband was faced with an emboldened SNP and devolution certainly changed the whole landscape but the raw figures don't support the view that Blair and Brown messed up Scotland for Labour.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Labour votes in Scotland in general elections over the last 30 years...

1987 - 1.25m
1992 - 1.14m
1997 - 1.28m
2001 - 1.01m
2005 - 922k
2010 - 1.03m
2015 - 707k

So a gradual decline during the Blair years - from a high mark - a bounce back under Brown and then a fair drop under Miliband.

Yes, Miliband was faced with an emboldened SNP and devolution certainly changed the whole landscape but the raw figures don't support the view that Blair and Brown messed up Scotland for Labour.

I think the Scottish referendum set SNP up. Pretty much all of the 'No' parties vanished at the next election. Only when SNP mess up significantly will any others get a sniff IMO

 

[rigsby]

UKIP have been polling badly in recent by-elections and council elections - I would imagine most people see UKIP as having served their purpose.


Though if the realities of the EU exit deal seem poor then they may well have a resurgence - and I think this may well be the case.


It's an odd situation as personally I don't see it reflecting on Labour or LibDems too much as they are not involved in the negotiations. For me it is for the Tories to come out as heroes with a great deal, or villains with a bum deal.


So I agree EU exit will influence the next general election but I think mainly just in terms of how the Tories have managed it.

There you go ***. Different thread but same message for the most important and influential 5 years in our lives.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

I think the Scottish referendum set SNP up. Pretty much all of the 'No' parties vanished at the next election. Only when SNP mess up significantly will any others get a sniff IMO

apart from the Tories pushing Labour into a distant third in May of this year

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

I admire your loyalty to the Labour party.

However,Iraq will go down on Blair's headstone.

Like you, I certainly wouldn't call the start of tuition fees, (which went against an election pledge), a good thing, either.

Some would argue, (not necessarily me), that the uncontrolled immigratrion which started on his watch should be on your bad list too.

i was never a fan until i saw how they've open access to poorer kids like never before while in Scotland, with no tuition fees, it is far harder for a poor kid to go to uni than in England.
uni education has to be paid for somehow and, sadly, the research shows that in Scotland as in England, tuition fees are better for poorer kids accessing university education.

I'd tweak it a bit personally to make the system act more like income tax but it's pretty clear. Reported:
https://www.theguardian.com/educati...tland-benefits-wealthiest-students-most-study

"The worst place for poor students in the UK? Scotland. Free education in Scotland: a bung for the middle class, paid for by the poor."




http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2015/12/worst-place-poor-students-uk-scotland

http://www.independent.co.uk/studen...-despite-having-no-tuition-fees-a7051521.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36392857

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

apart from the Tories pushing Labour into a distant third in May of this year

But the Tories didn't get a sniff of unseating SNP - as I said!
For me SNP are a broadly socialist party so when their vote increases it would largely be at the expense of Labour and Tory vote I would expect to hold up.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

There you go ***. Different thread but same message for the most important and influential 5 years in our lives.

I don't know what your post means.

 

[callan]

But the Tories didn't get a sniff of unseating SNP - as I said!
For me SNP are a broadly socialist party so when their vote increases it would largely be at the expense of Labour and Tory vote I would expect to hold up.

So going from 2nd to 3rd is a progress then for Labour in Scotland?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So going from 2nd to 3rd is a progress then for Labour in Scotland?

Clearly not what I said so a pointless post.

 

[callan]

Clearly not what I said so a pointless post.

Not at all, you have continued to attack the Tories as a form of defence against Labours short comings in Scotland.
Are you prepared to admit that that you have gone backwards in Scotland?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Labour votes in Scotland in general elections over the last 30 years...

1987 - 1.25m
1992 - 1.14m
1997 - 1.28m
2001 - 1.01m
2005 - 922k
2010 - 1.03m
2015 - 707k

So a gradual decline during the Blair years - from a high mark - a bounce back under Brown and then a fair drop under Miliband.

Yes, Miliband was faced with an emboldened SNP and devolution certainly changed the whole landscape but the raw figures don't support the view that Blair and Brown messed up Scotland for Labour.

Votes don't equal MP's in a first-past-the-post system.Selective use of statistics worthy of Mrs Blue.

I never suggested that that Blair/Brown had "messed up Scotland for Labour".

Merely that the decline of Labour's Parliamentary representation in Scotland could be traced back to their watch.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

But the Tories didn't get a sniff of unseating SNP - as I said!
For me SNP are a broadly socialist party so when their vote increases it would largely be at the expense of Labour and Tory vote I would expect to hold up.

they're tartan Tories mate!
they want to cut corporation tax and have a low-tax off shore haven like Ireland.
It all feeds into this thing about us losing coz we're not left wing enough, which is a nice line but not true