Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[Kat_r]

Just wondering if someone can do the maths and understands current interest rates on bridging loans - from a business perspective Ron knows that the embargo won’t be cleared until the next court date and so a loan to pay the HMRC won’t achieve anything until then. So if he lines one up surely he’ll only want one at the last possible moment. What would be the cost from now until the hearing date of having what he would consider an unnecessary loan?

I can’t see Ron selling anything until his big prize is secure. At that point I’m sure he’ll happily sell the club. I wouldn’t even be surprised if the deal is already in place with a new buyer or consortium but will only happen when a key milestone is achieved in the wider development.

Yeah, agreed.

So the structure and agreed commitment mutually was 20 years, if it was 5 years the yield etc would have to be higher, of of course we'd have had to explore debt finance which just isn't suitable in our opinion - just need to see where we are today.

From a football side of things, clubs are screwed. During the early stages of the takeover of Hungerford, we spoke to the National League about the initially projected shortfall which was a really small amount now I know more - something like £50k - and the response was that they laughed about us being concerned by such a small amount! The financial holes in clubs are horrendous, but some are doing it really well. Thankfully we did really well with building community engagement and in turn sponsorships, plus of course doing common sense stuff that made it easier for people to firstly spend money, and then spend more.

Andy Holt was a great support up at Accrington. It was staggering, when speaking to him, to learn about the ratio of revenue to players costs at clubs. This is the reason for the FFP rules, it spreads throughout football.

I wouldn't be able to point to any surveys, but you could probably guess the financial position of many clubs.

Frankly, football and anciliary sales alone are insufficient to make a profit at the lower levels - my belief (a personal belief) is that clubs that are run in the way they are run now in conference / League 2 (and probably half of League 1) should really be semi pro as they can't justify the costs of running a full time professional club - it takes a number of factors to make it, demographics and supporter base is just one, but the bigger driver IMO is commercial revenue outside of football. That's why getting the stadium build right, by someone who will take the club forward rather than someone who'll sell up soon after, is critical.

You want the property and the stadium. It isn’t happening.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Just wondering if someone can do the maths and understands current interest rates on bridging loans - from a business perspective Ron knows that the embargo won’t be cleared until the next court date and so a loan to pay the HMRC won’t achieve anything until then. So if he lines one up surely he’ll only want one at the last possible moment. What would be the cost from now until the hearing date of having what he would consider an unnecessary loan?

I can’t see Ron selling anything until his big prize is secure. At that point I’m sure he’ll happily sell the club. I wouldn’t even be surprised if the deal is already in place with a new buyer or consortium but will only happen when a key milestone is achieved in the wider development.

Agreed with your first paragraph, however, I believe Martin Dawn is in court on a WUO early in February, so I tend to think the loan needs to be available then to go through the group companies and to the Club.

I do think that pressure is being applied now on Ron to give up a "slice of the pie" - because some of the pie is better than none of it. This is something that he needs a little time to adjust to as if he does so, he can no longer be seen as the benevolent owner that I think he always wanted to, in handing the Club back once it is all done.

Ron always flies by the seat of his pants, we've seen that countless times over the years, but I really think that now, he might just listen to the right offer for a share of what's planned.

We're in the Last Chance Saloon and the clock is ticking.

 

[Holy Joe]

Agreed with your first paragraph, however, I believe Martin Dawn is in court on a WUO early in February, so I tend to think the loan needs to be available then to go through the group companies and to the Club.

I do think that pressure is being applied now on Ron to give up a "slice of the pie" - because some of the pie is better than none of it. This is something that he needs a little time to adjust to as if he does so, he can no longer be seen as the benevolent owner that I think he always wanted to, in handing the Club back once it is all done.

Ron always flies by the seat of his pants, we've seen that countless times over the years, but I really think that now, he might just listen to the right offer for a share of what's planned.

We're in the Last Chance Saloon and the clock is ticking.

Indeed, hadn't heard this before but Martin Dawn in court 8 Feb 1030. Hmrc are the creditors seeking winding up

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4266701/

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Indeed, hadn't heard this before but Martin Dawn in court 8 Feb 1030. Hmrc are the creditors seeking winding up

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4266701/

If this is the first hearing will he not just kick the can down the road with paperwork suggesting the bridging loan is “imminent” like he did at our last hearing? I’ll be surprised if the funds are in place, as @borehamblue said, if interest rates on a bridging loan to someone with Ron’s sketchy credit history are exorbitant and calculated daily I can see it that cleared funds won’t be in HMRC’s account until 28th February.

 

[lreed567]

Apologies if this has been said , but there's alot of posts to read through.

Alot of this stuff goes over my head a bit but was thinking about something yesterday, if by some miracle the club was to be sold, would the HMRC still be owed money or would that be on Ron?? So basically is it Southend United that owe the HMRC or Ron Martin?

 

[Its Only A Game]

Just wondering if someone can do the maths and understands current interest rates on bridging loans - from a business perspective Ron knows that the embargo won’t be cleared until the next court date and so a loan to pay the HMRC won’t achieve anything until then. So if he lines one up surely he’ll only want one at the last possible moment. What would be the cost from now until the hearing date

With Ron’s dodgy credit history, and bridging loans being expensive anyway, I’d expect a £5M loan to be in the region of 1.5% interest per month.

That would be around £75,000 interest per month.

 

[hlane17]

Apologies if this has been said , but there's alot of posts to read through.

Alot of this stuff goes over my head a bit but was thinking about something yesterday, if by some miracle the club was to be sold, would the HMRC still be owed money or would that be on Ron?? So basically is it Southend United that owe the HMRC or Ron Martin?

The debt is Southend United’s.

 

[lreed567]

The debt is Southend United’s.

Thank you

 

[Shrimperjohn]

Re supporters meeting tomorrow night I posted this on another chat this morning but no reply as yet.. is it a secret

I’ve looked at the trusts communication re the meeting tomorrow evening. Unless i’ve Missed it I can’t see where the location is and what time it starts please. Also is a meeting open to all supporters?

Report

 

[Cricko]

Re supporters meeting tomorrow night I posted this on another chat this morning but no reply as yet.. is it a secret

I’ve looked at the trusts communication re the meeting tomorrow evening. Unless i’ve Missed it I can’t see where the location is and what time it starts please. Also is a meeting open to all supporters?

Report

It is a Zoom meeting attended by the following groups. @Shrimperjohn


Trust
SOS
TBV
Splat
BOT
Exiles
SZ
AAS
Proud Shrimpers
Echo
BBC Essex

 

[Shrimperjohn]

It is a Zoom meeting attended by the following groups. @Shrimperjohn


Trust
SOS
TBV
Splat
BOT
Exiles
SZ
AAS
Proud Shrimpers
Echo
BBC Essex

Thanks Cricko so is this an open meeting ie any supporter can join the zoom call? I’d be interested in the dial in details if so..

 

[Medway Blue]

Agreed with your first paragraph, however, I believe Martin Dawn is in court on a WUO early in February, so I tend to think the loan needs to be available then to go through the group companies and to the Club.

I do think that pressure is being applied now on Ron to give up a "slice of the pie" - because some of the pie is better than none of it. This is something that he needs a little time to adjust to as if he does so, he can no longer be seen as the benevolent owner that I think he always wanted to, in handing the Club back once it is all done.

Ron always flies by the seat of his pants, we've seen that countless times over the years, but I really think that now, he might just listen to the right offer for a share of what's planned.

We're in the Last Chance Saloon and the clock is ticking.

And this is why I think that Wednesday's statement had a different feel about it. It was missing that bravado, the pig-headedness and the ego that usually accompanies statements and Ron-isms. There was an air of.....resignation about it?

 

[Cricko]

Thanks Cricko so is this an open meeting ie any supporter can join the zoom call? I’d be interested in the dial in details if so..

It isn't ATM i am sorry to say, it is just reps of certain groups. I am sure there will be others soon fans can join in with.

 

[OldBlueLady]

And this is why I think that Wednesday's statement had a different feel about it. It was missing that bravado, the pig-headedness and the ego that usually accompanies statements and Ron-isms. There was an air of.....resignation about it?

I think you probably have a good idea of why it felt different!

 

[danbowen]

It isn't ATM i am sorry to say, it is just reps of certain groups. I am sure there will be others soon fans can join in with.

How are details being shared with the wider supporter groups after asIt seems you have to be part of these groups to be allowed to know all the secret information.

Will the minutes be posted on here shortly after?

 

[Cricko]

How are details being shared with the wider supporter groups after asIt seems you have to be part of these groups to be allowed to know all the secret information.

Will the minutes be posted on here shortly after?

There is no secret information, we haven't even talked yet. It was said an update would be posted after the chat.

 

[Medway Blue]

I think you probably have a good idea of why it felt different!

Ha indeed, although I suspect it would have felt different anyway.

I make you right. I think he's painted himself so far into the corner now that it's give up a slice of the pie, or there's no pie left at all and I suspect that some of the people around him are cranking up the pressure on him to that effect. Like I said in another post, I think he'll only be open to a fairly narrow selection of potential investors. Business knowledge and money won't be enough. The person needs to be in the property development game and be willing/interested in funding club and project in return for a slice of the pie and without wanting to change anything in RM's and the council's project vision. Any approaches which don't tick those boxes and involve anything more than funding for a slice of the pie (Ferdinands), including a different vision for the plans which will involve buying the development and submitting amended plans (Carl and Co.) are non-starters.

 

[OldBlueLady]

How are details being shared with the wider supporter groups after asIt seems you have to be part of these groups to be allowed to know all the secret information.

Will the minutes be posted on here shortly after?

I doubt there will be minutes. It's a chat to formulate plans using correct channels. I expect there will be outline notes.

 

[TJC]

Lets just say that they don't entertain deals below what is a mindblowing number for most people, and yes £1m in sterling would be a tiny number for them.

Having said that, the plan was to work towards true profitability rather than just breakeven / continual losses / hope for a good year through player sales and a few plum cup draws, through the strength of the facilities that the city could benefit from over and above a half empty stadium and a community hall.

Also, I know the value of a pound having not always had the life I have now, so making a loss just isn't in me. Knowing the grim reality of finances of the lower levels of professional / higher levels of semi professional football, the plan always had far more than just gate receipts at 3pm on Saturday and a few programmes / scarves / drinks in it.

As for why bother with SUFC, it isn't the only project that is being worked on so it's part of a wider relationship I guess? But the wider plans certainly met their minimum criteria so that is probably why, when it comes down to it.

Again, sorry for being so cryptic!

I know it's irrelevant now as you are no longer pursuing the purchase of the club, but I'm curious on how you planned to turn the club profitable when only 10 European clubs turn a profit in excess of £1m, a few break even and most make a loss. How did you convince backers of this when the evidence suggests it's highly unlikely.
Please don't take this as a dig, just curious.

 

[Blue43]

Agreed with your first paragraph, however, I believe Martin Dawn is in court on a WUO early in February, so I tend to think the loan needs to be available then to go through the group companies and to the Club.

I do think that pressure is being applied now on Ron to give up a "slice of the pie" - because some of the pie is better than none of it. This is something that he needs a little time to adjust to as if he does so, he can no longer be seen as the benevolent owner that I think he always wanted to, in handing the Club back once it is all done.

Ron always flies by the seat of his pants, we've seen that countless times over the years, but I really think that now, he might just listen to the right offer for a share of what's planned.

We're in the Last Chance Saloon and the clock is ticking.

I think it’s going to have to be a much larger piece of that pie that he’ll have to give up, if not the whole pie itself with the mess he’s now in financially!!