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Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

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Outcome of HMRC court case 1 March

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Tilly Lover said:
So if the football club is in administration any buyer has to pay these debts but will be fairly small in the big picture.

Still does not explain why Martin would put the football club into administration as other Companies he owns will have to recognise the huge bad debts.
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Because whilst this would not be as advantageous to him, the club will survive. If he wanted the club out of business he could have done that 20 years and £20m ago.
 
fbm said:
This to me is the key phrase in that article -

"A Southend club spokesman said: “We will soon be in much better financial health and we are not selling players.”"

For those with long memories, this is the key point I said a few weeks ago that didn't make sense; if the club was only in desperate need of money, the whole squad would be up for sale, and it isn't.

The closer we get to March 1st the more we panic, naturally, but I am keeping my nerve and rolling back to this point.

I do believe now that he has the money (or the vast majority of it) and we will not be wound up.
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Alternatively, they might not coming into that money. The offers are so small they won't make an impact and selling players would impact performances. It would be quite something to have a points deduction and still make the play offs
 
fbm said:
Because whilst this would not be as advantageous to him, the club will survive. If he wanted the club out of business he could have done that 20 years and £20m ago.
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No he couldn't. He didn't have planning 20 years ago and funny enough he still hasn't got it.
 
I try to go through life not 'hating' anyone.
It's a very strong emotion and over used IMO.
Does what Ron Martin is doing to our club make him close to that for me - maybe.
BUT , protesting outside someones home , however well meaning and peaceful that may be, is over stepping the mark in a big way.
As DWB said, wife , grandchildren etc are all innocent parties in this situation and shouldn't be subjected to any form of fear or intimidation.
I know some will disagree and probably come back with 'valid' arguments.
I'm all for differing opinions , but this is one that I will never be swayed from.
 
Tilly Lover said:
Thanks for helping but still not clear, my point is that when the football club debts are written off either through administration or winding up, the creditors will have to recognise the bad debt on their accounts. As it is Martin’s companies that are the main creditors then it is their balance sheet that will take the hit.

Your first point - the buyer of the club either has to take on the debts (which I assume no one would) or the Administrator tells the creditors they are getting next to nothing so the creditors will suffer the loss.

The second point is mute as I am not referring to any legal issues against other Companies, just that they will have to write off huge sums as bad debt.

Agree on the 3rd point.

Still does not seem advantageous to Martin to go into administration.
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Through winding up there are no assets and creditors get zero. In administration a return is realised for the creditors so they get something. HMRC for PAYE and VAT (not corporation tax) come first. Administration suits them. Then there is the chance other creditors including Ron might get something in the £ dependent on the sale and whether there is active interest from more than one party etc.

Yes Ron’s companies take the hit on the debt where at very best the vast majority is written off. BUT this does not have any effect on RHL and it parent Elounda LLP where all the assets are held. And the situation would be exactly the same or worse on winding up. And the club not being wound up means he has a tenant for the stadium, and no stadium would be a massive issue for all the planning as approved.

So for creditors administration better for than winding up. In particular, for Ron administration much better than winding up -no downsides only upsides (where have I head that before?)

The new buyer normally takes on none of the debt. They agree a price and that’s what the administrator uses less expenses to mitigate the losses (normally) the creditors suffer.

The only difference here is the new buyer I believe will remain responsible for settling the outstanding footballing debts only. Conditions of league membership.

BUT, avoiding both admin & winding up better still for Ron as the club with assess to the shiny new stadium and it’s potential revenue streams will maximise sale price and it won’t be a distressed sale. And he will get to write down his debts later when hopefully profits from the development will allow him to absorb them without placing those companies in jeopardy either.

My opinion anyway. Warranties neither implied or given but hopefully brings the points together.
 
Cricko said:
No he couldn't. He didn't have planning 20 years ago and funny enough he still hasn't got it.
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Yes, fair point... but without a club, I'm not sure how strong the covenant on RH would be. All ifs and buts anyhow... we are where we are. And we do have planning for something, just not for what we now want and the fact that the stadium keeps changing with the economic state of the country indicates to me that he is more bothered about the stadium than the housing (which I am sure is not what some people think on here).
 
kentblues said:
Through winding up there are no assets and creditors get zero. In administration a return is realised for the creditors so they get something. HMRC for PAYE and VAT (not corporation tax) come first. Administration suits them. Then there is the chance other creditors including Ron might get something in the £ dependent on the sale and whether there is active interest from more than one party etc.

Yes Ron’s companies take the hit on the debt where at very best the vast majority is written off. BUT this does not have any effect on RHL and it parent Elounda LLP where all the assets are held. And the situation would be exactly the same or worse on winding up. And the club not being wound up means he has a tenant for the stadium, and no stadium would be a massive issue for all the planning as approved.

So for creditors administration better for than winding up. In particular, for Ron administration much better than winding up -no downsides only upsides (where have I head that before?)

The new buyer normally takes on none of the debt. They agree a price and that’s what the administrator uses less expenses to mitigate the losses (normally) the creditors suffer.

The only difference here is the new buyer I believe will remain responsible for settling the outstanding footballing debts only. Conditions of league membership.

BUT, avoiding both admin & winding up better still for Ron as the club with assess to the shiny new stadium and it’s potential revenue streams will maximise sale price and it won’t be a distressed sale. And he will get to write down his debts later when hopefully profits from the development will allow him to absorb them without placing those companies in jeopardy either.

My opinion anyway. Warranties neither implied or given but hopefully brings the points together.
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That is very helpful, thanks. I can see an advantage of administration over winding up but is still not a good outcome for Martin.

Which of Martin’s Companies will have to recognise the bad debt from the football club if is goes into administration or is wound up? No one may know as accounts not been published recently.
 
Tilly Lover said:
That is very helpful, thanks. I can see an advantage of administration over winding up but is still not a good outcome for Martin.

Which of Martin’s Companies will have to recognise the bad debt from the football club if is goes into administration or is wound up? No one may know as accounts not been published recently.
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Yes indeed - of course admin not at all a good outcome based on my reading. Just less worse than winding up.

Southend United Football Club is owned by South Eastern Leisure plc, that is jointly owned by Martin Dawn plc and Mezcal Investments (offshore company).
 
kentblues said:
Yes indeed - of course admin not at all a good outcome based on my reading. Just less worse than winding up.

Southend United Football Club is owned by South Eastern Leisure plc, that is jointly owned by Martin Dawn plc and Mezcal Investments (offshore company).
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I have just spent half an hour looking at Companies House website and saw that these two Companies are the ones affected. These are the Companies that I guess would fail if the football club go into administration or is wound up. I guess that just affects Martin’s paper wealth.

His real wealth depends upon Elounda I guess.
 
kentblues said:
No I don’t think so. Apart from the fact he is clearly leveraging everything he can not to get wound up incl. getting MPs onside etc etc, if he does get past 1st March and then either the bridging loan or funds from the development starting this summer come in he will keep the show on the road much more comfortably until that sale. He’s been going through maximum pain up to this point - in theory his life gets easier after March 1 (or at least I think way more likely that’s the plan).
Of course he may be dreaming- but he’s been doing that for most of the 20 years…
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I hope your right and sufc future gets brighter after 1st March and these off field issues are put to bed. Currently their is 1.4 or potentially 2 million debt owed to HMRC which is stated as final...... the bridging loan hasn't happened and looks unlikely before the 1st so the question is where can that sort of money be found in time to save the club? From the outside looking in he pretty much used all his life lines as such up, so he really is running out of options now. if he does put the club into admin instead of the club being wound up in court, he is then giving the club fighting chance of survival. He screwed this club up big time in my opinion.
 
The best option for Ron right now if bridging loan isn't already sorted, is to sell up or take external investment from a third party, but he's too much of a ****wit to do that!
 
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