Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[Fish]

Another thing to bear in mind with players not being paid, is that their pension schemes will also have not been paid into by the club for a couple of months now. It might not seem much to begin with, but that 'few hundred quid' when not invested will miss out on future years of compounding and investment growth, and could easily wipe £x,000 off their final pension value when they come to retire.

That’s the kind of issue that the PFA should be supporting with. For example, providing legal and professional support to help the players petition for a bill payment to compensate for this.

 

[MK Shrimper]

So by logic, you are saying that Kevin Maher is lying?

Kev's hands are tied. Should a miracle happen and this loan appears, he's not going to bite the hand that (is supposed) to feed. Criticising your employer in public is never a good idea.

 

[RHB]

Kev's hands are tied. Should a miracle happen and this loan appears, he's not going to bite the hand that (is supposed) to feed. Criticising your employer in public is never a good idea.

You've been doing it for years with Network Rail, not done you any harm

 

[Smiffy]

approximately how much longer did they survive afterwards?

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2019-12-18/bury-fc-hmrc-debts-paid-off-as-winding-up-petition-against-the-club-dismissed

About 11 months after this particular petition (there was a couple more after this) the board of directors appointed an Administrator.

It then took around 18 months for the "fans" to buy the club and Gigg Lane and take it out of Administration (May '22)

They have since been having squabbles with the Phoenix club (Bury AFC) that was started, even though the original was essentially still alive. Perhaps they will come to some agreement to merge, I don't know.

 

[Grayson]

It is not in Maher's interest, or anyone's for that matter, for any player's handing in of their notice to be made public. Our best case scenario is it makes Ron Martin pay the wages before they can walk away and all of these guys remain our players.

If a player has handed in their notice, they have done the right thing for themselves. If Maher is covering it up, he has done the right thing for himself, the player(s), and the club.

None of this makes anybody a liar or any other over-the-top description over the past few pages.

 

[kentblues]

It is not in Maher's interest, or anyone's for that matter, for any player's handing in of their notice to be made public. Our best case scenario is it makes Ron Martin pay the wages before they can walk away and all of these guys remain our players.

If a player has handed in their notice, they have done the right thing for themselves. If Maher is covering it up, he has done the right thing for himself, the player(s), and the club.

None of this makes anybody a liar or any other over-the-top description over the past few pages.

Like everyone else I don't know the situation in this case.

However, this point worries me. It is clearly deeply unhelpful to Kev and team on the playing side for this to come out (even to the extent some are suggesting its a motivation to say something that's not correct).

The question then is should we (I say we because I don't want this personalised and it's a general point) be posting stuff that actually just undermines Kev and the playing staff?
Do we not sometimes get shared information that actually it would be best if we kept to ourselves?
If a senior person in the club were to leak information (inadvertently or otherwise) that hurts the playing side/Kev would they want it shared and if so what would their motivation be? (really makes you wonder who such a person would be).

Again not for discussion in relation to any specific post. I do wonder more generally if, in an effort to "get Ron" the needs of Kev and the team become collateral damage. Even if we all say what a fantastic job they are doing and that we want to support them.

 

[Rob1920]

I have no idea if the rumours are true or not, but sadly the fact the team are playing well to me is no indicator either way. They are pro's, and quite good ones at this level. If they don't stay here, they'll want to be showing what they can do to get the best move away.

 

[in the know]

To be fair I'm not 100% on it, so I would love to be corrected by anyone with hard facts on it.
I agree with your views on it

 

[blues exile]

I have no idea if the rumours are true or not, but sadly the fact the team are playing well to me is no indicator either way. They are pro's, and quite good ones at this level. If they don't stay here, they'll want to be showing what they can do to get the best move away.

With considerable interest in the football media, this is a big chance in the shop window to show other clubs what they can do.

 

[fbm]

Like everyone else I don't know the situation in this case.

However, this point worries me. It is clearly deeply unhelpful to Kev and team on the playing side for this to come out (even to the extent some are suggesting its a motivation to say something that's not correct).

The question then is should we (I say we because I don't want this personalised and it's a general point) be posting stuff that actually just undermines Kev and the playing staff?
Do we not sometimes get shared information that actually it would be best if we kept to ourselves?
If a senior person in the club were to leak information (inadvertently or otherwise) that hurts the playing side/Kev would they want it shared and if so what would their motivation be? (really makes you wonder who such a person would be).

Again not for discussion in relation to any specific post. I do wonder more generally if, in an effort to "get Ron" the needs of Kev and the team become collateral damage. Even if we all say what a fantastic job they are doing and that we want to support them.

Great post and this is what also concerns me... I do think people underestimate the damage that may be done to the club and players by airing dirty linen in public and whilst I understand the need for accountability and for everything to be more transparent with things being done properly, I guess this is the other edge to that particular sword.

Sadly I think it's probably unavoidable though.

 

[TrevorFitzpatrickHattrick]

It's the trap that I sometimes find myself falling into - thinking that the players should have as deeper affinity for SUFC as I do. This group are easily the most relatable, hard-working and likeable group that we've had in recent times, especially when you compare them to the wasters we've had in the last few years. But that doesn't mean they should have to put up with the level of ill-treatment they've been exposed to lately by Ron. Playing football isn't a life-long career and wages in the lower leagues, whilst comparatively good in the grand scheme of things, aren't exactly going to allow these players to retire early. Therefore, if any have handed their notice in, I wouldn't blame them one bit as they have bigger priorities at play - supporting their families, keeping a roof over their head and protecting their careers.

 

[united we stand]

To be fair I'm not 100% on it, so I would love to be corrected by anyone with hard facts on it.
I agree with your views on it

From the PFA website

If you are at a Premier League, FA WSL or English Football League club on a full contract, your club delegate and the club secretary will coordinate your annual PFA membership. You will pay a one-off joining fee of £20 when you first become eligible

 

[in the know]

Thanks for that. The bit that's unclear is it says you join for life, so it's unclear whether any of ours who are already members from joining while in the EFL would be covered, while those who've never played in the EFL couldn't join. It's all a bit cloudy and seems unfair, but explains why I was told the pfa stuff doesn't apply to the NL.

 

[dannypav]

From the PFA website

If you are at a Premier League, FA WSL or English Football League club on a full contract, your club delegate and the club secretary will coordinate your annual PFA membership. You will pay a one-off joining fee of £20 when you first become eligible

I wonder how it works for members transferred from Football League to National League ?
Also if you've been a member for say 15 years and you get relegated to National League it seems a bit unfair to not be covered.
I don't know the answer to these questions but just thought they were interesting

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

About 11 months after this particular petition (there was a couple more after this) the board of directors appointed an Administrator.

It then took around 18 months for the "fans" to buy the club and Gigg Lane and take it out of Administration (May '22)

They have since been having squabbles with the Phoenix club (Bury AFC) that was started, even though the original was essentially still alive. Perhaps they will come to some agreement to merge, I don't know.

That is something I don’t want happen to us, trying to set up a new club, while Southend Utd still sleeping in a coma like Bury FC did, it’s caused splits.

 

[teabee1]

On earing the local MP .The lady is doing all she can to aid the life of Southend united .From what she said on the zoom meetin .I comend her for all the efforts she is doing to save the club .

Did anyone ask her if she was in contact with SBC to ask them to pull their fingers out to get the outstanding planning permission sorted?

 

[danbowen]

Ron is a massive issue for Southend United and needs to get the funds asap or allow urgent investment in to the club from elsewhere BUT the fact that the council appear to be getting away with killing our club because of their constant incompetence is clearly overlooked by most fans. Ron isn't the only one killing this club. This whole process of getting us the new stadium has been massively delayed due to them too. Look at other councils they have been so much quicker to approve and support their local teams SBC or whatever they go by now are ****ing useless.

 

[GBJ]

Like everyone else I don't know the situation in this case.

However, this point worries me. It is clearly deeply unhelpful to Ken and team on the playing side for this to come out (even to the extent some are suggesting its a motivation to say something that's not correct).

The question then is should we (I say we because I don't want this personalised and it's a general point) be posting stuff that actually just undermines Kev and the playing staff?
Do we not sometimes get shared information that actually it would be best if we kept to ourselves?
If a senior person in the club were to leak information (inadvertently or otherwise) that hurts the playing side/Kev would they want it shared and if so what would their motivation be? (really makes you wonder who such a person would be).

Again not for discussion in relation to any specific post. I do wonder more generally if, in an effort to "get Ron" the needs of Kev and the team become collateral damage. Even if we all say what a fantastic job they are doing and want to support them.

I’ll never be in favour of suppressing any news, regardless if its good or bad. It’s demonstrable that the club isn’t in the habit of breaking news so let’s be honest here, if it weren’t for the fans sharing tidbits of info from time-to-time, we wouldn’t have a clue what was going on.

Would we know about players wages not being paid? Staff not being paid? Winding up orders? So far, all the evidence points towards we’d have been kept in the dark about all of it. Does it help anyone within the club that we know about these indiscretions? No, not really. But do we have aright to know?

I’m sure the argument could be raised about how “it’s none of our business”. It’s been made perfectly clear by Martin that this isn’t “our” club, it’s his club, and whilst we may not have a right to know all of the ins and outs, we are still paying customers & we do have a right to know where our money is going so we can make an informed decision on whether to keep investing or not.

The nature of the beast is, some fans info will be wrong on occasion, and on other times it’ll be spot on. We don’t have to start labelling or highlighting which people are really ITK & whether their sources can be trusted. It’s quite easy to separate those who are genuine and those who are not, because their records will speak for themselves.

 

[GBJ]

Great post and this is what also concerns me... I do think people underestimate the damage that may be done to the club and players by airing dirty linen in public and whilst I understand the need for accountability and for everything to be more transparent with things being done properly, I guess this is the other edge to that particular sword.

Sadly I think it's probably unavoidable though.

I think there is greater damage being done from the top of the hierarchy. The fans discussing those side effects, pails in comparison.

 

[kentblues]

I’ll never be in favour of suppressing any news, regardless if its good or bad. It demonstrable that the club isn’t in the habit of breaking news so let’s be honest here, if it weren’t for the fans sharing tidbits of info from time-to-time, we wouldn’t have a clue what was going on.

Would we know about players wages not being paid? Staff not being paid? Winding up orders? So far, all the evidence points towards we’d have been kept in the dark about all of it. Does it help anyone within the club that we know about these indiscretions? No, not really. But do we have aright to know?

I’m sure the argument could be raised about how “it’s none of our business”. It’s been made perfectly clear by Martin that this isn’t “our” club, it’s his club, and whilst we may not have a right to know all of the ins and outs, we are still paying customers & we do have a right to know where our money is going so we can make an informed decision on whether to keep investing or not.

The nature of the beast is, some fans info will be wrong on occasion, and on other times it’ll be spot on. We don’t have to start labelling or highlighting which people are really ITK & whether their sources can be trusted. It’s quite easy to separate those who are genuine and those who are not, because their records will speak for themselves.

That is different point of view and perfectly valid.

Now, again, like everyone else I don't know the truth. No-one on here gets it 100% right, a long term contributor mentioned 50% in this case. I don't know. There is no fact checking service on here so most will have no idea if its 50% or 75%...

It's a shame that the openness doesn't extend to the person at the club who is, it could be argued, undermining Kev and the playing side by leaking/inadvertently sharing this information (they say don't shoot the messenger). What their motivation may be?
Mention was made of very senior contacts in the club hierarchy? That would be very disturbing if that was assumed?. Or it might be a single player (in which case people might assume the one named)? I feel by your same argument some may feel that it is also our business?

People may think the detail raises more questions than it answers and yet those answers are not to be shared? Kev would probably like to know who it is? Or at least their area of employment at the club?

Problem is perhaps with all this is that often, when we talk about openness, we only mean limited openness...

But in the spirit of such openness who do you think is leaking this information? Afterall, the truth or otherwise belongs to the originator not the messenger? You might say its none of our business but if its hurting Kev and the team some might beg to differ...