Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[RHB]

It's going to be a very, very difficult two weeks.

Oh, and I think there should be a third option on the poll - adjourned. Because I think it will be (even though it's been marked "Final").

And as if, by magic, an 'Adjourned' option has appeared.

 

[Bromley Blue]

And as if, by magic, an 'Adjourned' option has appeared.

God I really hope it’s not adjourned. I suppose it would be semi-good news as we’d still have a club for a while longer. But the endless discussion/worry/panic on here would continue. The players probably still wouldn’t be paid and we’d start to see our season fall apart.

The only positive from this situation is if Ron finds someone mad enough to lend him significant funding until Boots and Laces is truly vacated.

 

[dannypav]

God I really hope it’s not adjourned. I suppose it would be semi-good news as we’d still have a club for a while longer. But the endless discussion/worry/panic on here would continue. The players probably still wouldn’t be paid and we’d start to see our season fall apart.

The only positive from this situation is if Ron finds someone mad enough to lend him significant funding until Boots and Laces is truly vacated.

I agree.
No way do I want my club 'die' on 1st March , but a small part of still prefers that to an 'adjournment'.
Doesn't feel right typing that , but that's the reality.

 

[Boreham Blue]

I guess I’d take an adjournment as long as Ron can secure money to pay staff and suppliers. Hmrc can cope with cash flow issues for a little longer but staff and small businesses and charities can’t.

What will be criminal is if we are wound up and they don’t get a penny and Ron goes on and manages to deliver his get rich scheme.

 

[basilrobbie]

I know this is going to be very unpopular and I've donned my helmet and flak jacket in readiness. But no, removing him at this stage would in my opinion be absolutely the wrong thing and would kill the club.
I'm all for making things uncomfortable and bringing national attention to issues like non payment of wages. I read on here statements like "His position is untenable". Look, his position it's that it is his club, he's not an elected MP or Councillor, if he hands his notice in, who does he give it to? Himself! It's not going to happen.
He isn't going to step down at this delicate stage and it's a complete waste of time focusing energy on trying to remove him.
If there is a chant we want to all get behind, rather than just W block and a few others, how about "Pay the staff" or something that actually could be achieved?
Once this is all done, my guess is he'll go of his own volition, but if we want to unify the fan base now, then pick something like the running of the club to focus on rather than something that is not possible.
I've read on here how Brighton, for instance, have done marvellously under their new ownership but - whilst it's not quite the same as in our situation - people need to read a bit about their history in the 1990s and how their original home, The Golstone Ground, was sold off. For years they ground shared until the Amex was built.
After the sale, the fans protested like mad - I remember it all over the news - and eventually the owners, William Archer, David Bellotti and Greg Stanley, sold the club to a consortium. But that was when all that existed was a club and it still took a few years.
There is an article here about Greg Stanley, parts of which could also apply to Ron Martin actually.
But at this particular point in time, the fans wanting Martin out are hamnering on the wrong door. That time will come, and if he delivers FF and the club is on a level playing field, THEN start the "Martin Out" protests. I would imagine we will all be behind them at that point.

Former Brighton and Hove Albion chairman Greg Stanley dies

The much-reviled former chairman of Brighton and Hove Albion, Greg Stanley, has died at the age of 75. Along with

www.brightonandhovenews.org

I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't think a chant, how ever loud, will take you anywhere.

I don't think the Brighton analogy stands up either. Bloom has put £400m into club, stadium and even a new railway station there.

I know Martin seems entrenched, and prising him out might seen difficult. But assuming you get past 1 March, do you want to carry on like this for as long as he is alive? I wouldn't, in your position.

 

[palexander]

I know this is going to be very unpopular and I've donned my helmet and flak jacket in readiness. But no, removing him at this stage would in my opinion be absolutely the wrong thing and would kill the club.
I'm all for making things uncomfortable and bringing national attention to issues like non payment of wages. I read on here statements like "His position is untenable". Look, his position it's that it is his club, he's not an elected MP or Councillor, if he hands his notice in, who does he give it to? Himself! It's not going to happen.
He isn't going to step down at this delicate stage and it's a complete waste of time focusing energy on trying to remove him.
If there is a chant we want to all get behind, rather than just W block and a few others, how about "Pay the staff" or something that actually could be achieved?
Once this is all done, my guess is he'll go of his own volition, but if we want to unify the fan base now, then pick something like the running of the club to focus on rather than something that is not possible.
I've read on here how Brighton, for instance, have done marvellously under their new ownership but - whilst it's not quite the same as in our situation - people need to read a bit about their history in the 1990s and how their original home, The Golstone Ground, was sold off. For years they ground shared until the Amex was built.
After the sale, the fans protested like mad - I remember it all over the news - and eventually the owners, William Archer, David Bellotti and Greg Stanley, sold the club to a consortium. But that was when all that existed was a club and it still took a few years.
There is an article here about Greg Stanley, parts of which could also apply to Ron Martin actually.
But at this particular point in time, the fans wanting Martin out are hamnering on the wrong door. That time will come, and if he delivers FF and the club is on a level playing field, THEN start the "Martin Out" protests. I would imagine we will all be behind them at that point.

Former Brighton and Hove Albion chairman Greg Stanley dies

The much-reviled former chairman of Brighton and Hove Albion, Greg Stanley, has died at the age of 75. Along with

www.brightonandhovenews.org

If there was a "best poster" award on SZ, you'd be in the running every time. Sensible arguments and obviously helps I 100% agree with your sentiment. Its a very divisive and emotional issue that not everyone is going to agree with, but the level headed amongst us can see the bigger picture and whilst its not the pitchforks at Martin's house type of emotion some want, it doesnt mean we care or are hurting any less.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

I am surprised we didn’t do a bucket collection, has we did, we would raise enough money for staffs and players wages, over the last 5 home games.

 

[Cricko]

I am surprised we didn’t do a bucket collection, has we did, we would raise enough money for staffs and players wages, over the last 5 home games.

You really think we would of got in 200K. I doubt that very much..Make that 400k in a week or so's time.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

You really think we would of got in 200K. I doubt that very much..Make that 400k in a week or so's time.

We should done it, if we known that players not going to get paid for January wages, against Solihull, I blame that on RM for not admitting that he need help.

 

[Shrimper]

I am surprised we didn’t do a bucket collection, has we did, we would raise enough money for staffs and players wages, over the last 5 home games.

We would not raise anywhere near enough

The bucket collection would be lucky to get 10k

 

[JAL]

I am surprised we didn’t do a bucket collection, has we did, we would raise enough money for staffs and players wages, over the last 5 home games.

Wouldn’t get anywhere near the amount, if you think so, I want to do bucket collections where you live

 

[tommy tucker]

If van .wesiel has a massed fortune .And he is ment to be a director of the club .Why cant he at least pay the players wages .There fore not giveing Ron a helping hand .But he could at least spare a few k to pay the players wages .He is ment to have a fortune surly as a director he can help a little .

 

[GJShrimper]

What I'm personally confused and concerned about is that if we get the bridging loan and our hero RM saves us from extinction then pays off HMRC, pays all wages and all the other silly things he hasn't. Then what? Is this money going to last 5 years?
If he's struggling now how will this loan cover him until everything is built and we move stadiums?
Sorry if it's obvious to some, I just can't see how this loan will solve anything except getting wound up in 2 weeks. I can see us in this situation every year personally..

 

[dusterman]

Thank you for respectfully disagreeing and putting your points across. I see the art of reasonable and proper debate is not dead yet - other posters, take note please. A great response from @Medway Blue, even if it differs from my own view. And that's fine.

Which is the point of opinion... we all think we're right until persuaded or shown otherwise.

I totally understand the viewpoint and I don't actually disagree with most of it. I think it's the method of how we get there I'm at odds with. I just feel that if the main focus was on something like paying the staff - which actually seems to be the thing that people are the most cheesed off about - there would be a lot more enthusiasm and traction for the cause.

I don't see the same chink in Ron's armour I'm afraid and haven't interpreted his statements in the same way as you (unless I've missed something, which is quite possible). But I cannot believe that Ron would be so, so brazen as to just take this club to the brink with absolutely no plan B. Aside from anything else, everyone knows where he lives. That is not an incitement to violence and I would absolutely not support it by the way, but can you imagine? It would be horrific.

It's going to be a very, very difficult two weeks.

Oh, and I think there should be a third option on the poll - adjourned. Because I think it will be (even though it's been marked "Final").

I think it’s hard to be rational at the current time to be honest.

Hearing what was probably said to these players is so disrespectful and shameful.

All this while we wait painfully to find out if we still have a club to support.

I’m fully in @Medway Blue camp as my blood has boiled over, I’m afraid.

 

[tommy tucker]

What I'm personally confused and concerned about is that if we get the bridging loan and our hero RM saves us from extinction then pays off HRMC, pays all wages and all the other silly things he hasn't. Then what? Is this money going to last 5 years?
If he's struggling now how will this loan cover him until everything is built and we move stadiums?
Sorry if it's obvious to some, I just can't see how this loan will solve anything except getting wound up in 2 weeks. I can see us in this situation every year personally..

As you full well know if he get the money to pay off HRMC .Then the new ground can go ahead and moneys will be released before the stadium opens .

 

[Cricko]

As you full well know if he get the money to pay off HRMC .Then the new ground can go ahead and moneys will be released before the stadium opens .

The new works are now scheduled for pre-season timing to start and it seems they are awaiting planning approval anyway (fair wind etc) There are no guarantees atm on all that. Hopefully it will be resolved soon as will the loan. Again we just don't know on that score either.

We were of course told that it would be full steam ahead once the new training pitches were ready but that is not happening timescale wise either.

 

[Medway Blue]

What I'm personally confused and concerned about is that if we get the bridging loan and our hero RM saves us from extinction then pays off HRMC, pays all wages and all the other silly things he hasn't. Then what? Is this money going to last 5 years?
If he's struggling now how will this loan cover him until everything is built and we move stadiums?
Sorry if it's obvious to some, I just can't see how this loan will solve anything except getting wound up in 2 weeks. I can see us in this situation every year personally..

Supposedly.....there are certain milestones in the construction of the Fossetts Farm development which, when hit, will release a lot of money to RM. I'm not sure exactly what the milestones are - possibly the sale of land to the developers just before development on that part of the land begins.

The first milestone is allegedly the club vacating Boots & Laces and moving into the new training facilities, as that will release B&L and the land it sits on to be sold to the developers, who will then bulldoze it and begin construction on the stadium phase of the development.

The bridging loan is just that - a bridge which RM hopes will pay off the immediate debts and bridge the funding gap at the club until such time as that first wedge of funds is released.

However, B&L vacation and stadium construction start date for the stadium have been pushed back several times over the last half a year or so. Latest assumption was that we are just waiting for the new training pitches to be deemed suitable to begin use, likely in close season. Now it seems that's not the case and that there are outstanding issues with SCC, not least the fact that the revisions to the planning application which remove the hotel and replace it with more residences hasn't even been approved yet.

RM sounded less confident about a close season start date for the stadium in his email to Glenn Speller last week so there is a concern now in my mind as to how long any delay could be and whether what is left of the bridging loan after debts are paid would be enough to cover that delay. If not then we could well be back in this position in 5-6 months time, with a cashflow crisis and a WUP for tax debts.

 

[rigsby]

Supposedly.....there are certain milestones in the construction of the Fossetts Farm development which, when hit, will release a lot of money to RM. I'm not sure exactly what the milestones are - possibly the sale of land to the developers just before development on that part of the land begins.

The first milestone is allegedly the club vacating Boots & Laces and moving into the new training facilities, as that will release B&L and the land it sits on to be sold to the developers, who will then bulldoze it and begin construction on the stadium phase of the development.

The bridging loan is just that - a bridge which RM hopes will pay off the immediate debts and bridge the funding gap at the club until such time as that first wedge of funds is released.

However, B&L vacation and stadium construction start date for the stadium have been pushed back several times over the last half a year or so. Latest assumption was that we are just waiting for the new training pitches to be deemed suitable to begin use, likely in close season. Now it seems that's not the case and that there are outstanding issues with SCC, not least the fact that the revisions to the planning application which remove the hotel and replace it with more residences hasn't even been approved yet.

RM sounded less confident about a close season start date for the stadium in his email to Glenn Speller last week so there is a concern now in my mind as to how long any delay could be and whether what is left of the bridging loan after debts are paid would be enough to cover that delay. If not then we could well be back in this position in 5-6 months time, with a cashflow crisis and a WUP for tax debts.

Is the Hotel being replaced by housing?.....Or a function area/ball room.

 

[overseas shrimper]

I am surprised we didn’t do a bucket collection, has we did, we would raise enough money for staffs and players wages, over the last 5 home games.

How big are your buckets?

 

[Medway Blue]

Is the Hotel being replaced by housing?.....Or a function area/ball room.

I got the impression the function area/ballroom was already in there (possibly part of the hotel complex) and that it was additional apartments that were largely taking its place. Could be wrong though.