High Court hearing v Charterhouse 14/07/2010

[Norfolkshrimp]

So why did he plan a massive stadium and pay high salaries to key players?

If he wanted profit and didnt care about the club he would have built a cheap stadium and not invested in the team.

Its the fact he was over ambitious with his plans for the club that are a factor in our current woes!

Some basic understanding of business is required to understand his motives, the club would not ever have owned the stadium, the Sainsbury deal would have netted him a fat profit and don't be fooled into thinking he was ploughing all that into the new stadium, he was trying to finance that and would have retained ownership of not only the stadium but everything else like shops, hotel etc. (had he repaid the mortgage / loan on it, which based on the current situation seems highly unlikely)

The money from the sale of Roots Hall would NOT have been used to build the stadium it would have been pocketed by RM and / or his companies.

The net result would have been we still had no assets but get to rent a shiny new stadium from RM.

If FF get's built and he gets the loan can he be trusted to make the repayments ?

 

[Jam_Man]

Some basic understanding of business is required to understand his motives, the club would not ever have owned the stadium, the Sainsbury deal would have netted him a fat profit and don't be fooled into thinking he was ploughing all that into the new stadium, he was trying to finance that and would have retained ownership of not only the stadium but everything else like shops, hotel etc. (had he repaid the mortgage / loan on it, which based on the current situation seems highly unlikely)

The money from the sale of Roots Hall would NOT have been used to build the stadium it would have been pocketed by RM and / or his companies.

The net result would have been we still had no assets but get to rent a shiny new stadium from RM.

If FF get's built and he gets the loan can he be trusted to make the repayments ?

Whats the source of that information as its completely contrary to what has been stated in the past?

Why would he want to build all the hotels and stadium and be left with loan repayments if he wanted to make money? Surely he would want the build to be as cheap as possible.

Just because he wanted to make profit from the development doesnt mean he didnt want the club to succeed. Why did he pay Barrett such a large contract if he didnt care about the football side ?

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

Whats the source of that information as its completely contrary to what has been stated in the past?

You should pay more attention to what he's said in the past, he has stated numerous times that financing is required.

 

[Jam_Man]

You should pay more attention to what he's said in the past, he has stated numerous times that financing is required.

Thats not what you said.

You said he wouldnt be spending any money from the Roots Hall sale on the development, which is the opposite of what he said.

Of course there will be additional financing, the failure to obtain it when the credit crunch hit is the reason it was delayed....

 

[lombard]

Jam man,you always support Ron (the ego maniac) Martin.Most of what you have posted i tend to disagree with.Uncle Ron wanted the club to do well so as to get the kudos as well as a nice fat juicy profit.Under the chairmanship of John Main,the ground was transferred out of ownership of SUFC into Ron's company control.Ron then criticised Mr Main for his stewardship of the club(strings being pulled by Martin and his lacky Geoffrey King),eventually forcing John Main to resign.In the meantime Rons favourite solicitor,Paul Robinson had resigned from the SUFC board citing being uneasy with the financial situation.This also helped oust Main.Funny that Paul Robinson rejoined the board after RM was installed as chairman !!He has since resigned again,I wonder for the same reason ? All through these times I have been cynical of this regime,to even being harranged by some other supporters over the years.I do not take any pleasure in being proved right.Like most on here i have supported SUFC, for over fifty years, and i desperately do not want to see the club sink any lower.Please could anybody tell me that if you owned a business and it was encountering large financial and logistic problems,would you just swan off on a holiday ? Would i heck.Even if the new ground was magically produced,i still feel you could not trust this situation as to ground rent etc.Even though Uncle Ron verbally assured us all that we (SUFC) would be protected.The way the club has been run is a disgrace.Staff have been treated abysmally and shoddy.Players and admin staff.I hold no faith and even with a development completion we are in dire straits..God help us.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Good question. It does not necessarily mean that he's been doing anything wrong/illegal. As has been said the finances of all of these companies have become so intertwinned that it could be anything.

Yes you're right Beefy, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong or illegal. But does anyone know what this £4.7m was used for?
I bet nobody on ShrimperZone can answer this question.

As S.U.F.C. are now in bed and intertwined with Martin Dawn plc, this is a very important question.

 

[Jam_Man]

Jam man,you always support Ron (the ego maniac) Martin.Most of what you have posted i tend to disagree with.Uncle Ron wanted the club to do well so as to get the kudos as well as a nice fat juicy profit.Under the chairmanship of John Main,the ground was transferred out of ownership of SUFC into Ron's company control.Ron then criticised Mr Main for his stewardship of the club(strings being pulled by Martin and his lacky Geoffrey King),eventually forcing John Main to resign.In the meantime Rons favourite solicitor,Paul Robinson had resigned from the SUFC board citing being uneasy with the financial situation.This also helped oust Main.Funny that Paul Robinson rejoined the board after RM was installed as chairman !!He has since resigned again,I wonder for the same reason ? All through these times I have been cynical of this regime,to even being harranged by some other supporters over the years.I do not take any pleasure in being proved right.Like most on here i have supported SUFC, for over fifty years, and i desperately do not want to see the club sink any lower.Please could anybody tell me that if you owned a business and it was encountering large financial and logistic problems,would you just swan off on a holiday ? Would i heck.Even if the new ground was magically produced,i still feel you could not trust this situation as to ground rent etc.Even though Uncle Ron verbally assured us all that we (SUFC) would be protected.The way the club has been run is a disgrace.Staff have been treated abysmally and shoddy.Players and admin staff.I hold no faith and even with a development completion we are in dire straits..God help us.

Where am I supporting Ron ?

Just because Im not taking the extreme view that he is out to intentionallyruin us does not mean I support him. I fully believe that after getting into the club to make money from the development he subsequently bought into the football side (backed up by ambitious stadium plans and over ambitious contracts to get us back in to the CCC) and that he genuinely wanted the best for the club.

I however see that he has made a total mess of the whole situation due to the lack of financial clout that he has and that he is desperately scrambling around trying to meet all of the financial commitments of SUFC and also his own companies.

Whilst I 100% believe he went into Fossetts Farm with the best intentions I do not believe he is dealing with the situation in an acceptable manner and once the project is complete I also dont believe he is the man to take the club forward anymore. As said already, his biggest crime is not having the wealth required for this project and was relying on the credit that was available pre-credit crunch.

As for going on holiday this is the information age, he has a phone and email and staff and can deal with issues anywhere, however Id rather he was here and that the club were being more informative, but Im guessing that sadly they have nothing positive to say.

Apologies for trying to take a balanced view....

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Jam man,you always support Ron (the ego maniac) Martin.Most of what you have posted i tend to disagree with.Uncle Ron wanted the club to do well so as to get the kudos as well as a nice fat juicy profit.Under the chairmanship of John Main,the ground was transferred out of ownership of SUFC into Ron's company control.Ron then criticised Mr Main for his stewardship of the club(strings being pulled by Martin and his lacky Geoffrey King),eventually forcing John Main to resign.In the meantime Rons favourite solicitor,Paul Robinson had resigned from the SUFC board citing being uneasy with the financial situation.This also helped oust Main.Funny that Paul Robinson rejoined the board after RM was installed as chairman !!He has since resigned again,I wonder for the same reason ? All through these times I have been cynical of this regime,to even being harranged by some other supporters over the years.I do not take any pleasure in being proved right.Like most on here i have supported SUFC, for over fifty years, and i desperately do not want to see the club sink any lower.Please could anybody tell me that if you owned a business and it was encountering large financial and logistic problems,would you just swan off on a holiday ? Would i heck.Even if the new ground was magically produced,i still feel you could not trust this situation as to ground rent etc.Even though Uncle Ron verbally assured us all that we (SUFC) would be protected.The way the club has been run is a disgrace.Staff have been treated abysmally and shoddy.Players and admin staff.I hold no faith and even with a development completion we are in dire straits..God help us.

Great post lombard. I've told that bloomin Jam Man before to stop sticking up for Ron Martin. Then again it's a democratic forum and that's his choice.

 

[palexander]

Where am I supporting Ron ?

Just because Im not taking the extreme view that he is out to intentionallyruin us does not mean I support him. I fully believe that after getting into the club to make money from the development he subsequently bought into the football side (backed up by ambitious stadium plans and over ambitious contracts to get us back in to the CCC) and that he genuinely wanted the best for the club.

I however see that he has made a total mess of the whole situation due to the lack of financial clout that he has and that he is desperately scrambling around trying to meet all of the financial commitments of SUFC and also his own companies.

Whilst I 100% believe he went into Fossetts Farm with the best intentions I do not believe he is dealing with the situation in an acceptable manner and once the project is complete I also dont believe he is the man to take the club forward anymore. As said already, his biggest crime is not having the wealth required for this project and was relying on the credit that was available pre-credit crunch.

As for going on holiday this is the information age, he has a phone and email and staff and can deal with issues anywhere, however Id rather he was here and that the club were being more informative, but Im guessing that sadly they have nothing positive to say.

Apologies for trying to take a balanced view....

The sort of common sense view you would hear from FBM or Beefy and one that I on the whole subscribe to as well.

 

[united we stand]

Where am I supporting Ron ?

Just because Im not taking the extreme view that he is out to intentionallyruin us does not mean I support him. I fully believe that after getting into the club to make money from the development he subsequently bought into the football side (backed up by ambitious stadium plans and over ambitious contracts to get us back in to the CCC) and that he genuinely wanted the best for the club.

I however see that he has made a total mess of the whole situation due to the lack of financial clout that he has and that he is desperately scrambling around trying to meet all of the financial commitments of SUFC and also his own companies.

Whilst I 100% believe he went into Fossetts Farm with the best intentions I do not believe he is dealing with the situation in an acceptable manner and once the project is complete I also dont believe he is the man to take the club forward anymore. As said already, his biggest crime is not having the wealth required for this project and was relying on the credit that was available pre-credit crunch.

As for going on holiday this is the information age, he has a phone and email and staff and can deal with issues anywhere, however Id rather he was here and that the club were being more informative, but Im guessing that sadly they have nothing positive to say.

Apologies for trying to take a balanced view....

you are wasting your time. although to me your posts make a lot of sense.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Where am I supporting Ron ?

Just because Im not taking the extreme view that he is out to intentionallyruin us does not mean I support him. I fully believe that after getting into the club to make money from the development he subsequently bought into the football side (backed up by ambitious stadium plans and over ambitious contracts to get us back in to the CCC) and that he genuinely wanted the best for the club.

I however see that he has made a total mess of the whole situation due to the lack of financial clout that he has and that he is desperately scrambling around trying to meet all of the financial commitments of SUFC and also his own companies.

Whilst I 100% believe he went into Fossetts Farm with the best intentions I do not believe he is dealing with the situation in an acceptable manner and once the project is complete I also dont believe he is the man to take the club forward anymore. As said already, his biggest crime is not having the wealth required for this project and was relying on the credit that was available pre-credit crunch.

As for going on holiday this is the information age, he has a phone and email and staff and can deal with issues anywhere, however Id rather he was here and that the club were being more informative, but Im guessing that sadly they have nothing positive to say.

Apologies for trying to take a balanced view....

OBD posted this earlier.......


What If I was to say this, and that I know this to be true??

The court case last week for HMRC - Brunning was sent there with no back up, nothing at all, he is completely ****ed off with situation, and is being completely kept in the dark by Ron Martin...



If that's true, then Ron Martin didn't do the phone and email thing very good, if at all.
So yes, he should have been here. He could have gone on holiday after the season started and after some of this mess is sorted out. Has the importance of our situation not sunk in yet.

 

[Jam_Man]

OBD posted this earlier.......


What If I was to say this, and that I know this to be true??

The court case last week for HMRC - Brunning was sent there with no back up, nothing at all, he is completely ****ed off with situation, and is being completely kept in the dark by Ron Martin...



If that's true, then Ron Martin didn't do the phone and email thing very good, if at all.
So yes, he should have been here. He could have gone on holiday after the season started and after some of this mess is sorted out. Has the importance of our situation not sunk in yet.

....which is why I said Id rather he was here.

 

[Beefy]

Yes you're right Beefy, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong or illegal. But does anyone know what this £4.7m was used for?
I bet nobody on ShrimperZone can answer this question.

As S.U.F.C. are now in bed and intertwined with Martin Dawn plc, this is a very important question.

Does anyone (Firestorm?) have a copy of the relevant set of Martin Dawn's accounts?

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

It's quite laughable now that I think about it.
I spoke Dave Scriven last week at the training ground, and I was asking what about this, what about that. And he said at the end, Ron only has the best interests of the club at heart, he has funds available and everything will be sorted. He said he wouldn't be in the job if that was not the case. Don't worry, things are going to start happening for the better.

Er, & apologies if it wasn't you, but I thought you said last week - "I just spoke to a member of staff, not Scriven, at the training ground and..."?

Etc, etc, etc as above.

:dizzy:

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

With hindsight, not going into Administration in 1997 was the worst decision that this Club has probably ever taken.

Sssshhhh, or you'll have Our Glorious Leader trawling out that as an excuse & blame Uncle Vic for this latest episode of mismanagement when he dares to surface...

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

and once the project is complete I also dont believe he is the man to take the club forward anymore. ...

I wish i had your faith, unfortunately i can see the whole complex collapsing like a pack of cards. If Ron gets out of this mess and still delivers, then it will be a bigger blockbuster than 'The great escape'.

 

[DTS]

Charterhouse are based three streets from my house. *******s only just realised.

 

[Jam_Man]

I wish i had your faith, unfortunately i can see the whole complex collapsing like a pack of cards. If Ron gets out of this mess and still delivers, then it will be a bigger blockbuster than 'The great escape'.

I dont have any faith or confidence.

With no cash flowing in any of RM's companies I cant see how he will deliver it.

MaybeI should have said "if" not "when"....

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

I dont have any faith or confidence.

With no cash flowing in any of RM's companies I cant see how he will deliver it.

..

Regretfully i agree with you. You know, in 1997 when Sunderland moved to their new 'home', Roker Park was being demolished. I happened to pass there one day (up there on buisness) and looked in. There was a fan crying at the state of the ground, and several others walking away with slabs of concrete from the open end terrace behind the goal. God forsake we dont witness the same scenes, with the difference being that we dont have a new ground to move into.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Er, & apologies if it wasn't you, but I thought you said last week - "I just spoke to a member of staff, not Scriven, at the training ground and..."?

Etc, etc, etc as above.

:dizzy:

That was me.
I spoke to Two members of staff.
I heard some things about how skint Southend were and they couldn't pay for some basic things. This was from someone I didn't want to name or get in trouble. I said in one of the posts that it wasn't Scriven.

Then at the end of training I spoke to D.Scriven, and told everyone what he said as I though it was in the fans interest.