High Court hearing v Charterhouse 14/07/2010

[Beefy]

So the fact that Ron, dispite being the largest creditor has demostrated on more than 1 occasion, he cannot settle the debts, as he is the largest creditor, he gets to take power again? Even if another party claim to be able to settle? Surely that would be in the best interests of the other creditors?

It depends on how big a percentage of the overall debt belongs to Ron Martin and his companies. If he has enough of the share of the debt (75% I think but could be wrong) then he can veto any sale that he doesn't approve of.

 

[Kestrel]

Anyone have any idea what these massive loans were for?

When it says that Mr.Martin took interest-free loans , it makes it sound as he took personal loans of £4.7m from Martin Dawn plc.

it's not only the loans . . . item 12 is just as worrying - it's just a spiralling web of companies to whom we are indebted, directly and indirectly, and quite frankly it is a total mess - why he has to own so many companies is somewhat strange, although it could probably be for tax reasons (there we go again)

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

Once an Administrator comes in they essentially run that company but it's ties to the previous owners are, I would have thought, severed. The Administrator would have no knowledge of, or interest in, the network of Companies that own the Company that used to own the Company now in Administration.

We're not in this bother because of some tangled web of off-shore companies. We're in this bother because we're a very bad business who happen to be owned by someone without the resources to cover that up any more.

Not strictly true at all, if the club had retained ownership of the ground and sold it to Sainsburys themselves we would be ok, RM grabbed it at a bargain price and the sale price to Sainsburys will net him a huge profit. It could be argued that he stepped in when nobody else did but in hindsight it was a very bad day for the club.

 

[TJC]

It depends on how big a percentage of the overall debt belongs to Ron Martin and his companies. If he has enough of the share of the debt (75% I think but could be wrong) then he can veto any sale that he doesn't approve of.

Crikey! This could go on for ages! He could just keep getting it back again and again. That makes the only option a winding up order then in the judges eyes? Can't see we would be spared winding up once all the finances are aired in public!
My head hurts now - think I'll just settled on 'we're screwed'!

 

[Beefy]

Not strictly true at all, if the club had retained ownership of the ground and sold it to Sainsburys themselves we would be ok, RM grabbed it at a bargain price and the sale price to Sainsburys will net him a huge profit. It could be argued that he stepped in when nobody else did but in hindsight it was a very bad day for the club.

That is possibly true (although Firestorm has repeatedly argued that the price that RM paid was actually above the value of the land) but makes no difference now. The reason that he was able to buy the Club and the site at Roots Hall was because of the debts that the Club had got itself into.

With hindsight, not going into Administration in 1997 was the worst decision that this Club has probably ever taken.

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

Not strictly true at all, if the club had retained ownership of the ground and sold it to Sainsburys themselves we would be ok, RM grabbed it at a bargain price and the sale price to Sainsburys will net him a huge profit. It could be argued that he stepped in when nobody else did but in hindsight it was a very bad day for the club.

A close friend of mine, in 1998 when he started (I think) , I was 8, I remember the words coming from that persons mouth into my small precious ears 'The man is a ****ing ****, we are ****ed with him'. He repeats those words most days I see him. He has dealt with him.
With Ron, we are truly in the brown stuff, even though he may bring us out of it, there is not enough brown paper and vinegar to patch up the wounds that we will have.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

With hindsight, not going into Administration in 1997 was the worst decision that this Club has probably ever taken.

Have to agree with that

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Why? He wouldn't be the first and such moves are pretty common in business. Ron Martin wouldn't be the first owner of a business which ran out of cash. It happens up and down the Country every single day.

Of course your right, but then the FA don't deal with these companies. The FA has a responsibility to check club owner’s legitimacy and can therefore stop any purchase if they are not satisfied. The FA was investigating SUFC when we were under transfer embargo last season after having to bail us out to pay the players. I've got a feeling they wouldn’t agree letting RM run the club again.

 

[TJC]

A close friend of mine, in 1998 when he started (I think) , I was 8, I remember the words coming from that persons mouth into my small precious ears 'The man is a ****ing ****, we are ****ed with him'. He repeats those words most days I see him. He has dealt with him.
With Ron, we are truly in the brown stuff, even though he may bring us out of it, there is not enough brown paper and vinegar to patch up the wounds that we will have.

Now I feel depressed and old - thanks!

 

[C C Csiders]

Do not be surprised to see an emergency meeting of the Football League called.

Agenda Item #1 Apologies for Absence - Ron Martin

Agenda Item #2. To discuss the immediate expulsion from the competition of Southend United F.C.

 

[Firestorm]

Not strictly true at all, if the club had retained ownership of the ground and sold it to Sainsburys themselves we would be ok, RM grabbed it at a bargain price and the sale price to Sainsburys will net him a huge profit. It could be argued that he stepped in when nobody else did but in hindsight it was a very bad day for the club.

The only way it appeared to be a bargain price was because the asset value of the ground had been inlated by VJ in 1995/6 in order to
A) hide a massive loss made that year
B) Make the club look more attractive to potential investors.

Considering the time difference between aquisition and disposal , I would be very surprised if he didn't make a profit.

Had I sold my house (which I bought in 1996) in 2008 I would have made a mark up of 390%

A similar mark up on what RM paid for RH - 5M would mean Sainsburies agreeing to pay 19.5M.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

The only way it appeared to be a bargain price was because the asset value of the ground had been inlated by VJ in 1995/6 in order to
A) hide a massive loss made that year
B) Make the club look more attractive to potential investors.

Considering the time difference between aquisition and disposal , I would be very surprised if he didn't make a profit.

Had I sold my house (which I bought in 1996) in 2008 I would have made a mark up of 390%

A similar mark up on what RM paid for RH - 5M would mean Sainsburies agreeing to pay 19.5M.

Well if he had done right by the club nobody would begrudge him the profit but I feel his agenda never included the survival of SUFC let alone taking the club to a higher level.

 

[Fairport]

It certainly would have been better if we had gone into administration in 1997. So many clubs have done so since, Portsmouth apparantly have to pay their creditors 20p in the pound, on that basis 80% of debts are written off. Southampton went into administration and then soon after paid 1m pounds for Lambert. It's all a bit of a racket but is legitimate.
What is confusing is that Ron is obviously by far the biggest creditor and would be lucky to get 10% of what he is owed back from SUFC. Other posters on here have mentioned the fact that he could veto a potential takeover bid from someone else. However, he is also the major shareholder of SUFC so where does that leave the situation. It's all so complicated! As other people have said, there is the FA and/or Football League to be taken into account regarding adecision on Martin's suitability to run a professional football club.
The whole scenario is confusing and deeply worrying. The guy is obviously skint, borrowing from the Trust is like raiding your childs piggy bank, the last thing to do.
Although we have knowledgable people on here including lawyers an accountants it seems none of us knows the full story.
Lets hope there is light at the end of this long dark tunnel.

 

[Jam_Man]

Well if he had done right by the club nobody would begrudge him the profit but I feel his agenda never included the survival of SUFC let alone taking the club to a higher level.

Totally disagree, he wanted the club to do well, he has just so far been unable to deliver it.

He would have been better off building a cheap Col U type stadium if all he wanted was to make a fast buck....

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

Totally disagree, he wanted the club to do well, he has just so far been unable to deliver it.

He would have been better off building a cheap Col U type stadium if all he wanted was to make a fast buck....

Correct, sick of the conspiracy's !

 

[Kestrel]

he wanted the club to do well

i wonder if he still does . . .

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

Correct, sick of the conspiracy's !

It's not a conspiracy theory it's a widely held view by many who have been supporting the club for decades, his motives really aren't that hard to work out in my opinion.

 

[Jam_Man]

It's not a conspiracy theory it's a widely held view by many who have been supporting the club for decades, his motives really aren't that hard to work out in my opinion.

So why did he plan a massive stadium and pay high salaries to key players?

If he wanted profit and didnt care about the club he would have built a cheap stadium and not invested in the team.

Its the fact he was over ambitious with his plans for the club that are a factor in our current woes!

 

[Jam_Man]

i wonder if he still does . . .

He wont want the club to go under, but I wouldnt mind betting he would be happy to get out now!

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

It's not a conspiracy theory it's a widely held view by many who have been supporting the club for decades, his motives really aren't that hard to work out in my opinion.

In my opinion it is just rubbish, he hasn't wanted to ruin us as a football club. He is just useless, and completely inept.

So why did he plan a massive stadium and pay high salaries to key players?

If he wanted profit and didnt care about the club he would have built a cheap stadium and not invested in the team.

Its the fact he was over ambitious with his plans for the club that are a factor in our current woes!

Correct chased the dream, dream is still there, causing more problems. I believe he will get us through it, I don't want him here though, and if he does stay, when we come out the other aside, as I have said, there will be deadly problems.