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High Court hearing v Charterhouse 14/07/2010

Even if we go into admin, the common feeling is Martin will buy the club back anyways for a massively reduced price like Ken Bates did at Leeds.

It is possible, but I also think it is as likely for Sainsbury's to buy us and sell us to the Consortium, or the administrators realising that to sell back to the man who just proved he can't run a football club, would be madness.
 
This has probably been covered, and I've missed it, but to summarise:
The embargo won't be lifted until
1) HMRC case is settled and closed
2) Charterhouse case is settled and closed
3) both and any others that may appear in the meantime?
4) We have gone it and come out of admin (if that happens)
 
7,000 was at the lower end of our average crowd last season, and taking the season ticket holders out of the equation and using a ballpark figure of 15 quid for each of the 7,000 would give gate receipts of 105,000 per match . . . . while that alone won't cover pay and expenses, there is still merchandising, sponsorship, advertising, TV money and transfer money. Maybe i am looking past the obvious, but to me it doesn't seem to add up.

The 105k per match would equate to around 2.7m per season which is about 750k less than what our wage bill was running at for the last couple of sets of accounts. And that 105k would need to be reduced substantially to take into account VAT (make your own joke there), policing, catering and other costs involved in the staging of the match. Plus most of that income came in through season ticket sales rather than gate receipts which again reduces the cash coming into the business for 11 months out of 12.
 
If Bates can regain control then who knows.

Dont forget that this relates to the club only, the ground and new stadium are owned by other companies, Ron Martin as far as I can see will still own pretty much everything if SUFC go into admin.

But the planning conditions make it hard for him to do anything with it if the club don't exist. This is why I thought he was fighting tooth and nail to keep the club out of admin, and possibly lose control?

Not sure, but maybe Bates was the only one offering to take the club on?
 
This has probably been covered, and I've missed it, but to summarise:
The embargo won't be lifted until
1) HMRC case is settled and closed
2) Charterhouse case is settled and closed
3) both and any others that may appear in the meantime?
4) We have gone it and come out of admin (if that happens)

PAYE/VAT and Football related debts (PFA Loan, Loan signing commitments, player salaries etc) need to be paid up.

Anything else will not be taken into account.
 
This has probably been covered, and I've missed it, but to summarise:
The embargo won't be lifted until
1) HMRC case is settled and closed
2) Charterhouse case is settled and closed
3) both and any others that may appear in the meantime?
4) We have gone it and come out of admin (if that happens)

Charterhouse has nothing to do with the embargo.
 
See there's the problem.

Mezcal for starters (Who are top of the pile I believe) are based in the British Virgin Isles?

Just seen this on a Grimsby forum. Details things quite well I think...

1] Sainsburys supplied a loan of £2.5m to the club to enable them to pay their recent debt to HMRC.

2] Sainsburys supplied a further loan of £3m to pay part of a £7.7m debt to the local council. The club still owes the other £4.7m.

3] Sainsburys also loaned the club a further £1.8m to pay other debts.
These are interest-bearing loans which, if not repaid, would lead to Sainsburys taking 76% of South Eastern Leisure Ltd. [prop. Ron Martin] and therefore a controlling interest in the club. Sainsburys would then be free to sell the company to whomever they wished.

4] Southend currently lease a 10 acre training ground from the council through South East Leisure Ltd. [prop. Ron Martin] and the council has agreed to sell this site to Roots Hall Ltd [prop. Ron Martin] but has not yet received the money. This site is a key part of the new stadium development and would also, therefore, become the property of Sainsburys should they take control of that company.

4] Roots Hall Ltd has also agreed to buy 2.3 acres of council land containing a number of properties around the Roots Hall site in order to allow the construction of Sainsburys new store to go ahead. The council has not yet received a penny of that money.

5] The 32 acre site which forms the balance of the new stadium development was purchased from the council for £1,76m in 2007 by Tribeca Property Southend [prop. Ron Martin]. This company is registered in the British Virgin Islands and is owned by another Britsh Virgin Islands company Mezcal Investments [prop. Ron Martin] .

6] Prospects College, which stands in a crucial position as it's site will form the entrance to the car park of the proposed superstore, has refused to have any dealings with any Ron Martin company and is negotiating the sale of its site directly with Sainsburys.

7] Sainsburys also own the land on which the club shop and the entrance to the Roots Hall ground are situated.This was sold to them for £578,000 by Roots Hall Ltd. in return for a £1.2m loan.

8] The club now have just 9 contracted first-team players, some of whom have not been paid recently.

9] A transfer embargo is in place as the club has not repaid a loan of £120,000 to the PFA used to pay outstanding wages last season and also owes loan fees to other clubs.

10] The club has 4 CCJs aginst it, any one of which could lead to a winding-up petition. These resulted from non-payment of money to Deloittes, who did the Fossets Farm feasibility study, a hospitality company. a loan company and a local conference venue - they did not pay for their Player of the Year function! These six-figure debts are in addition to money owed to various directors, past and present, and The Shrimpers Trust.

11] Martin Dawn plc [prop. Ron Martin] owns 50% of South Eastern Leisure UK [prop. Ron Martin] which owns 76% of the club's shares. Martin Dawn plc has debts of £7.6m and is facing a winding-up order from HMRC.The club pays Martin Dawn plc £60,000 per annum as a 'management fee' but what it does for this money has never been specified.
Between 2006 and 2009 Mr Martin took interest-free loans from Martin Dawn plc amounting to £4.7m.

12] Southend United owes £1m to South Eastern Leisure which in turn owes more than £3m to Martin Dawn. Mezcal Investments is owed £1m by Southend United, £3.58m by South Eastern Leisure UK Ltd. and £930,000 by Roots Hall Ltd. It is not known how these debts are linked to Ron Martin's other companies in the British Virgin islands, Cyprus and Jersey! In total, Ron Martin owns 29 companies - 12 of which are registered in this country. The 12 registered here are in debt to the tune of £22m!




Anyone have any idea what these massive loans were for?

When it says that Mr.Martin took interest-free loans , it makes it sound as he took personal loans of £4.7m from Martin Dawn plc.
 
But doesn't the administrator get the say on who should take over?
1 which claims it will clear the debts if it takes over
and the other claiming he will clear the debts but has a track record of not doing so?
Hell of a risk on Rons part. Maybe its his only option now. I guess hes still in Crete? How can he be relaxing knowing his and our future is balanced on a pin head?

An Administrator doesn't run the business in the interests of the business (Southend United) or it's customers (us). It runs it in the interests of it's creditors, of which Ron Martin, through various companies, is by far and away the biggest.
 
But the planning conditions make it hard for him to do anything with it if the club don't exist. This is why I thought he was fighting tooth and nail to keep the club out of admin, and possibly lose control?

Not sure, but maybe Bates was the only one offering to take the club on?


Oh Ron Martin wants to keep control alright, so again what does that mean if he just loses the football club ?

People who are saying administration is the best option now dont know what that could lead to and are often assuming that the consortium come in, get the whole package and save the day.

Administration could lead to far bigger problems, who knows.
 
Anyone have any idea what these massive loans were for?

When it says that Mr.Martin took interest free loans , it makes it sound as he took personal loans of £4.7m from Martin Dawn.

Good question. It does not necessarily mean that he's been doing anything wrong/illegal. As has been said the finances of all of these companies have become so intertwinned that it could be anything.
 
I think the FA would have their say in it too if Ron tried to buy back the club he put into admin
 
An Administrator doesn't run the business in the interests of the business (Southend United) or it's customers (us). It runs it in the interests of it's creditors, of which Ron Martin, through various companies, is by far and away the biggest.

So the fact that Ron, dispite being the largest creditor has demostrated on more than 1 occasion, he cannot settle the debts, as he is the largest creditor, he gets to take power again? Even if another party claim to be able to settle? Surely that would be in the best interests of the other creditors?
 
An Administrator doesn't run the business in the interests of the business (Southend United) or it's customers (us). It runs it in the interests of it's creditors, of which Ron Martin, through various companies, is by far and away the biggest.

True but I suspect the real reason he's tried to avoid administration at all costs is that the complex web of deals and companies is far from legit, the administrator will dig deep and uncover some nasty stuff in my opinion. I really think it's the best way to protect the club now, does anyone think the terms of these deals are fair and transparent ? The only agenda RM has ever had is to get his filthy hands on Roots Hall and sell it at a massive profit.
 
I think the FA would have their say in it too if Ron tried to buy back the club he put into admin

Why? He wouldn't be the first and such moves are pretty common in business. Ron Martin wouldn't be the first owner of a business which ran out of cash. It happens up and down the Country every single day.
 
12] Southend United owes £1m to South Eastern Leisure which in turn owes more than £3m to Martin Dawn. Mezcal Investments is owed £1m by Southend United, £3.58m by South Eastern Leisure UK Ltd. and £930,000 by Roots Hall Ltd. It is not known how these debts are linked to Ron Martin's other companies in the British Virgin islands, Cyprus and Jersey! In total, Ron Martin owns 29 companies - 12 of which are registered in this country. The 12 registered here are in debt to the tune of £22m!

In reading this part "Southend United owes £1m to South Eastern Leisure which in turn owes more than £3m to Martin Dawn" Does that mean we owe £1m or £4m?

"Mezcal Investments is owed £1m by Southend United, £3.58m by South Eastern Leisure UK Ltd" Same again, I am a little confused.
 
True but I suspect the real reason he's tried to avoid administration at all costs is that the complex web of deals and companies is far from legit, the administrator will dig deep and uncover some nasty stuff in my opinion. I really think it's the best way to protect the club now, does anyone think the terms of these deals are fair and transparent ? The only agenda RM has ever had is to get his filthy hands on Roots Hall and sell it at a massive profit.

Once an Administrator comes in they essentially run that company but it's ties to the previous owners are, I would have thought, severed. The Administrator would have no knowledge of, or interest in, the network of Companies that own the Company that used to own the Company now in Administration.

We're not in this bother because of some tangled web of off-shore companies. We're in this bother because we're a very bad business who happen to be owned by someone without the resources to cover that up any more.
 
According to Ron at the Q&A Mezcal & Tribeca were set up to deal with the building and development of the stadium and Fossets Farm. Further according to RM Southend United haven't paid a penny towards any costs of planning / development thus far, so I'd like to know how we owe Mezcal 1 million quid.
 

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