Hard or Soft Brexit?

[Benfleet A1]

Well, you May and all the Brexiters better believe they don't.........it's all you have to hang on to.

About liking our country of birth, it's far more, as you later allude to, disliking the government (consecutive governments) of the country of our birth. Thatcher followed by Major, Cameron and May is rather difficult to stomach. I wouldn't venture to suggest to Barna, that we had a Socialist government under Blair (yet, at least, he didn't set us on our present catastrophic course).............I think you'd be asking for trouble! :smile:

In your case, I believe you. In the others case, I don't. A curious glance into the achives will prove that beyond all reasonable doubt.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...untries-influence-uk-with-leaks-a7715851.html

HONESTLY........
..... has May lost it before the negociations even begin? Is she already starting to put responsibility for their likely failure at the door of European bureaucrats? Anyway, I thought she said that the leaks from last week's dinner were just "Brussels gossip?" Astonishing attack...........and where is it likely to get her and the country? I'm starting to think that it isn't at all a question of her or Corbyn........it's more a question, whether you can trust this women to negociate a good deal (any deal) with our European friends. She's been politely told that her approach to the Brexit negociations are illusionary...........to which she responds to by getting more and more aggressive, incredibly accusing the European negociaters of trying to influence the General Election....Ms May WHO WAS IT WHO INVITED MR JUNCKER AND HIS TEAM FOR DINNER AT N°10????.........ça commence bien!:smile:
Callan, is this megaphone diplomacy to your liking?

 

[callan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...untries-influence-uk-with-leaks-a7715851.html

HONESTLY........
..... has May lost it before the negociations even begin? Is she already starting to put responsibility for their likely failure at the door of European bureaucrats? Anyway, I thought she said that the leaks from last week's dinner were just "Brussels gossip?" Astonishing attack...........and where is it likely to get her and the country? I'm starting to think that it isn't at all a question of her or Corbyn........it's more a question, whether you can trust this women to negociate a good deal (any deal) with our European friends. She's been politely told that her approach to the Brexit negociations are illusionary...........to which she responds to by getting more and more aggresive, incredibly accusing the European negociaters of trying to influence the General Election....Ms May WHO WAS IT WHO INVITED MR JUNCKER AND HIS TEAM FOR DINNER AT N°10????.........ça commence bien!:smile:
Callan, is this megaphone diplomacy to your liking?

In short no....but perhaps not for the same reasons as you.

My take is that May is being over theatrical, and using the UK press to whip up a **** storm where there was no need too.
I suspect that as I alluded to in an earlier post she is casting herself as a modern day Boudica, which will certainly resonate well in certain quarters.

The EU of course haven't helped by casting themselves as the villain, and one does wonder how much the leak to the German press was orchestrated by them.

However two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[callan]

If the EU want £84 billion then we should put a 50% tax on all their goods until its paid.

Lets see what Germany say to Mr Junkers then. They won't be as nice as the Nazis were when they employed his Father or his Uncle to weed out Jews and strip them of their wealth and property.

We can't and we won't.....Davis has already said that we will meet our financial commitments...and I see no reason why we shouldn't.

Legally we can probably walk away from the Bill, and pay nothing...but that is in no ones interest.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

In short no....but perhaps not for the same reasons as you.

My take is that May is being over theatrical, and using the UK press to whip up a **** storm where there was no need too.
I suspect that as I alluded to in an earlier post she is casting herself as a modern day Boudica, which will certainly resonate well in certain quarters.

The EU of course haven't helped by casting themselves as the villain, and one does wonder how much the leak to the German press was orchestrated by them.

However two wrongs don't make a right.

How will it resonate in Europe? Generally, I agree with most of what you've said. Here's a Guardian (YES, I know :smile:) 'snap verdict' and riposte to May's attack.




Theresa May's No 10 speech - Snap verdict

Is Jean-Claude Juncker a Tory sleeper? Was David Cameron’s doomed attempt to stop him getting the job of European commission president just an elaborate ruse? It is starting to look like that, because it feels as if this an intervention that could move the electoral dial, and the Juncker dinner set it up.
Theresa May made a series of allegations against assorted European figures and institutions that were so inflammatory that they sounded like more like a Daily Mail editorial than a speech from a prime minister. For the most part they were also misleading or wrong.

• She claimed Britain’s negotiating position had been “misrepresented” in the “continental” press. That seemed to be a reference to the account of the dinner she hosted in Downing Street leaked to Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung. (There is a translation here.) But May and David Davis, who were both at the dinner, have refused to deny specific details of the newspaper’s account (although they have said they did not recognise its version of events.)

• She said the European commission’s negotiating stance has hardened. But it hasn’t to any significant extent. The Brexit negotiating guidelines agreed by EU leaders on Saturday were broadly similar to the draft ones issued a month or so earlier, and EU leaders have been saying for months that the UK will have to agree withdrawal terms before a trade deal is discussed.

• She said “threats” had been issued against Britain by European politicians and officials. But this just seems to be a reference to EU figures pointing out that Brexit will not be painless to Britain, an argument that the government itself used to make before the referendum. (And it is what May used to say herself too.)

• She said there were some in Brussels who don’t want the Brexit talks to succeed. But no serious figure in Brussels has said they want the Brexit talks to fail.

• She said there were some in Brussels who do not want Britain to prosper. But that is only true in the sense that EU leaders have stuck to the line they have always adopted, about how it would be unacceptable for Britain to be outside the EU while enjoying all the benefits it used to have.

• She said that these interventions were timed to affect the result of the election. She clearly implied that the intention was not to help her. But any observer with a rudimentary grasp of British politics would realise that any evidence of Brussels intransigence helps May make her case that Britain needs “strong and stable” etc etc.

May used to portray herself as a sensible moderate. This speech had a glint of the swivel-eye about it, and in a just world it would backfire. It is just possible that it could. It is also possible that it could do long-term damage to the prospects of the UK reaching a sensible Brexit deal with the EU.
But it seems more likely that people will like it. The rightwing, anti-European papers (the Mail, the Sun, the Express and the Telegraph) will certainly love it. And experience suggests that EU-bashing always goes down well, even when it is pointless, or counterproductive. In the last parliament David Cameron obtained his most significant bounce in the poll after he vetoed plans for a new EU treaty. This turned out to be a Pyrrhic victory (Cameron lost goodwill, and the reforms went through anyway), but one poll saw Tory support rise seven point afterwards.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

In short no....but perhaps not for the same reasons as you.

My take is that May is being over theatrical, and using the UK press to whip up a **** storm where there was no need too.
I suspect that as I alluded to in an earlier post she is casting herself as a modern day Boudica, which will certainly resonate well in certain quarters.

The EU of course haven't helped by casting themselves as the villain, and one does wonder how much the leak to the German press was orchestrated by them.

However two wrongs don't make a right.

she could do with looking back at what Mr Cameron achieved - he was badmouthing Junker and then went to ask to cut deals to aid the referendum and came back with nothing. She is driving into the same ditch and we are all on the back seat.

 

[callan]

How will it resonate in Europe? Generally, I agree with most of what you've said. Here's a Guardian (YES, I know :smile:) 'snap verdict' and riposte to May's attack.

• She said the European commission’s negotiating stance has hardened. But it hasn’t to any significant extent. The Brexit negotiating guidelines agreed by EU leaders on Saturday were broadly similar to the draft ones issued a month or so earlier, and EU leaders have been saying for months that the UK will have to agree withdrawal terms before a trade deal is discussed.

I think that there is another reality to all of this, which is worth considering.

At present what we have seen is two sides circling each other rather like boxers in a ring waiting to trade blows, which is all fairly meaningless as it helps neither side reach a preferred outcome....which can only come when negotiations actually start.

Having read through the EU framework for negotiation it isn't that bad at all, and yet each and every day here in the UK we see ever more preposterous headlines, lapped up by both remainers and leavers.

At the end of the day neither negotiating team have actually sat down yet, just existed in their own little bubbles....when they do...it will be incumbent on each team to see the world through the eyes of the other.

 

[callan]

she could do with looking back at what Mr Cameron achieved - he was badmouthing Junker and then went to ask to cut deals to aid the referendum and came back with nothing. She is driving into the same ditch and we are all on the back seat.

A bit off the subject....but if parliament is dissolved, how is May allowed to do a press briefing outside No 10, when in theory she is no longer Prime minister?

 

[superblue24]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...untries-influence-uk-with-leaks-a7715851.html

HONESTLY........
..... has May lost it before the negociations even begin? Is she already starting to put responsibility for their likely failure at the door of European bureaucrats? Anyway, I thought she said that the leaks from last week's dinner were just "Brussels gossip?" Astonishing attack...........and where is it likely to get her and the country? I'm starting to think that it isn't at all a question of her or Corbyn........it's more a question, whether you can trust this women to negociate a good deal (any deal) with our European friends. She's been politely told that her approach to the Brexit negociations are illusionary...........to which she responds to by getting more and more aggressive, incredibly accusing the European negociaters of trying to influence the General Election....Ms May WHO WAS IT WHO INVITED MR JUNCKER AND HIS TEAM FOR DINNER AT N°10????.........ça commence bien!:smile:
Callan, is this megaphone diplomacy to your liking?

Wow, I think all that garlic has clouded your brain.

The EU have been flapping their lips all week about this that and the other in a vain attempt to disrupt a government they know will battle hard for a good deal and have Jezza at the helm who has essentially rolled over and died by agreeing to pay their ridiculous demands should Labour get into power.

The EU have behaved disgracefully in all of this, showing us all the aggressive rhetoric of an obsessed dictatorship. Personally I'm glad I voted out, true colours being shown to us all. Good for May giving some back and I back her to the hills. I dare say a lot of the country feel the same way once the votes are counted in a month.

Strong talk at the moment from Wancker and Co, but wait until they have to start working out who needs to pay more into the budget and who will be taking less with an 8.5BN annual loss.

Yogi and Barna, you should be ashamed of yourselves. A couple of voyeurs obsessed with the prospect of the UK failing. Good job they got rid of the death penalty for treason some time back. Poor show, no fellow countryman of mine.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Wow, I think all that garlic has clouded your brain.

The EU have been flapping their lips all week about this that and the other in a vain attempt to disrupt a government they know will battle hard for a good deal and have Jezza at the helm who has essentially rolled over and died by agreeing to pay their ridiculous demands should Labour get into power.

The EU have behaved disgracefully in all of this, showing us all the aggressive rhetoric of an obsessed dictatorship. Personally I'm glad I voted out, true colours being shown to us all. Good for May giving some back and I back her to the hills. I dare say a lot of the country feel the same way once the votes are counted in a month.

Strong talk at the moment from Wancker and Co, but wait until they have to start working out who needs to pay more into the budget and who will be taking less with an 8.5BN annual loss.

Yogi and Barna, you should be ashamed of yourselves. A couple of voyeurs obsessed with the prospect of the UK failing. Good job they got rid of the death penalty for treason some time back. Poor show, no fellow countryman of mine.

She'd certainly risk doing less damage there, than at the negociating table.:smile:

 

[southendkid]

May's really starting to worry me, if she had any confidence in making a good deal she wouldn't be making these comments. These are the comments you make against an invading country, not someone you're trying to negotiate with. It feels like she's realised it's going badly and she's getting her narrative of it all being the EU's stubbornness in now so that when it all goes to hell she can deflect the blame off herself.

 

[Benfleet A1]

May's really starting to worry me, if she had any confidence in making a good deal she wouldn't be making these comments. These are the comments you make against an invading country, not someone you're trying to negotiate with. It feels like she's realised it's going badly and she's getting her narrative of it all being the EU's stubbornness in now so that when it all goes to hell she can deflect the blame off herself.

I'm seeing this differently. The EU's own rules forbid them from becoming involved in a member states elections and yes, we are still a member. They have made comment on the French Presidential Elections and now ours, breaking their own rules so I make her right for speaking out. Far too much is being leaked to the press and media with no substance from this bastion of democracy although they are beginnig to sound and act like a Stalinist dictatorship.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

A bit off the subject....but if parliament is dissolved, how is May allowed to do a press briefing outside No 10, when in theory she is no longer Prime minister?

good point, though it fits with her campaigning style - segregating herself from interested parties and making statements rather than answering questions. The aloof persona that is coming across will appeal to some and put off others, I prefer something a bit more engaging personally

 

[southendkid]

A bit off the subject....but if parliament is dissolved, how is May allowed to do a press briefing outside No 10, when in theory she is no longer Prime minister?

Government and Parliament are separate institutions, we still have a prime minister and government ministers until new ones are elected.

 

[callan]

Government and Parliament are separate institutions, we still have a prime minister and government ministers until new ones are elected.

Got it....thought she was pulling a fast one!

 

[rigsby]

Got it....thought she was pulling a fast one!

Plus you still live in number 10 until June the 8th. I wonder if JC has booked a removal lorry for the 9th, If he has hope he paid a decent non-refundable deposit.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

Plus you still live in number 10 until June the 8th. I wonder if JC has booked a removal lorry for the 9th, If he has hope he paid a decent non-refundable deposit.

He could just get his supporters to do it instead of a removal lorry. It's not like they'll have work.

 

[rigsby]

He could just get his supporters to do it instead of a removal lorry. It's not like they'll have work.

You could never trust them. I mean if they did ever have to move any furniture it would end up smashed and damaged with a huge bill to repair it.

Rather than own up to it they would blame May, Cameron, the right wing press or even Mrs Thatcher. Under no circumstances could it possibly be their fault. Guess what they would make exactly the same mistakes on the next removal job :thumbsup:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You could never trust them. I mean if they did ever have to move any furniture it would end up smashed and damaged with a huge bill to repair it.

Rather than own up to it they would blame May, Cameron, the right wing press or even Mrs Thatcher. Under no circumstances could it possibly be their fault. Guess what they would make exactly the same mistakes on the next removal job :thumbsup:

On the subject of removals, my wife is moving a piano from Béziers to Cébazan soon.I wonder if there's a firm you'd trust with the job? (Not UKIP or the Tories,obviously). :winking:

 

[rigsby]

On the subject of removals, my wife is moving a piano from Béziers to Cébazan soon.I wonder if there's a firm you'd trust with the job? (Not UKIP or the Tories,obviously). :winking:

Try Abbott's removals, they don't really know what their doing but at least they knock a couple of 0's off the bill.