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Hard or Soft Brexit?

What should happen?

  • Hard Brexit

    Votes: 31 46.3%
  • Soft Brexit

    Votes: 9 13.4%
  • Another referendum on the terms of the Brexit deal

    Votes: 14 20.9%
  • Forget it all and remain

    Votes: 11 16.4%
  • Bart

    Votes: 2 3.0%

  • Total voters
    67
Barna I thought about replying to your post saying that negotiations hadn't started yet in a repost to me saying I was quite happy with the way things have gone so far but couldn't be bothered. However I've changed my mind.
Since the vote which I personally disagreed with the following has happened.

The pound has fallen - predicted. A bit of a double edged sword as it makes us more competitive for exports but could increase inflation and costs.
Shares have risen - I thought they'd fall. Great to be proved wrong
Unemployment - still falling This was given by the experts as a critical benchmark. If it fell we were in trouble.
Referendum only advisory - if this had been accepted I fear there would have been violence on the streets. Everyone knew what the referendum was about.
The Bill has been passed and we are leaving
Democracy has been supported no matter how painful. Tim Farron has made himself look a fool not withstanding.
Our pre negotiating position has been made clear. If no free trade deal then it's WTO rules which no one wants. Perfect. You don't go to a market and offer the asking price. If you do you are a fool.
Theresa May has shown great statesmanship and leadership things I doubted she had in her arsenal..
More importantly Nissan, Toyota, Deutsche Bank etc have shown they are remaining and investing in the future in the UK. Even Schäuble has accepted that the City of London will remain the financial capital of Europe. Make no mistake all companies with have a Brexit plan to make the most and best of the crisis/opportunities.
And so you have it. It may not work out but so far it's far from the predicted disaster. I know you are very upset about this.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...sche-bank-city-london-brexit-eu-a7647571.html

Well, of course, this is only an opinion and I for one very much hope that it doesn't happen, as I would personally lose out. I'm no economist but I assume that the falling pound would be positive for exports but on the other hand, as Barna suggested, inflation risks rising. Thus people will feel less well off and it will come as a shock to holidaymakers if they find their pound at parity with the euro.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...sche-bank-city-london-brexit-eu-a7647571.html

Well, of course, this is only an opinion and I for one very much hope that it doesn't happen, as I would personally lose out. I'm no economist but I assume that the falling pound would be positive for exports but on the other hand, as Barna suggested, inflation risks rising. Thus people will feel less well off and it will come as a shock to holidaymakers if they find their pound at parity with the euro.

To counter that visitors to the UK are at record levels thus boosting the economy and offsetting a possible slowdown in spending.
 
I see.

Do you not think then that a diminishing EU market, yet increased costs of membership played a part?

Or perhaps that outside of the EU we will be able to make our own trade deals far quicker than the EU can ever hope to.

To have the ability to pursue our own immigration policies, without the EU discriminating....is something I'm sure you fully support.

What I find truly astonishing though is that you think it is the UK's economy that is doomed post Brexit
....I would look closer to home if I were you.

Absolutely not.I'm 100% in favour of open borders within the EU.

Don't think I've ever said or suggested the UK economy was "doomed" post Brexit.Worse off, (relatively perhaps), would be nearer the mark.
 
To counter that visitors to the UK are at record levels thus boosting the economy and offsetting a possible slowdown in spending.

Inevitably, (as there was in France after the terrorist outrages there), there will be a drop in tourist numbers coming to visit the UK (and London in particular) in future.
 
Barna I thought about replying to your post saying that negotiations hadn't started yet in a repost to me saying I was quite happy with the way things have gone so far but couldn't be bothered. However I've changed my mind.
Since the vote which I personally disagreed with the following has happened.

The pound has fallen - predicted. A bit of a double edged sword as it makes us more competitive for exports but could increase inflation and costs.
Shares have risen - I thought they'd fall. Great to be proved wrong
Unemployment - still falling This was given by the experts as a critical benchmark. If it fell we were in trouble.
Referendum only advisory - if this had been accepted I fear there would have been violence on the streets. Everyone knew what the referendum was about.
The Bill has been passed and we are leaving
Democracy has been supported no matter how painful. Tim Farron has made himself look a fool not withstanding.
Our pre negotiating position has been made clear. If no free trade deal then it's WTO rules which no one wants. Perfect. You don't go to a market and offer the asking price. If you do you are a fool.
Theresa May has shown great statesmanship and leadership things I doubted she had in her arsenal..
More importantly Nissan, Toyota, Deutsche Bank etc have shown they are remaining and investing in the future in the UK. Even Schäuble has accepted that the City of London will remain the financial capital of Europe. Make no mistake all companies with have a Brexit plan to make the most and best of the crisis/opportunities.
And so you have it. It may not work out but so far it's far from the predicted disaster. I know you are very upset about this.

Let's see how things pan out over the next two years or so (and probably beyond) before assuming that the worst is already over.
 
this comment from Liam Fox scares the hell out of me. Plenty of people say that Corbyn's acceptance of the referendum result and focus on workers rights for the end deal is not the way forward. But Liam Fox was a major player in the Leave campaign and is a major player in the deal negotiations and this comment from him in the Financial Times is battle lines being drawn. In order to 'take back control' Liam will throw your working rights under a bus (even if the bus doesn't have a misleading slogan on it):


To restore Britain’s competitiveness we must begin by deregulating the labour market. Political objections must be overridden. It is too difficult to hire and fire and too expensive to take on new employees. It is intellectually unsustainable to believe that workplace rights should remain untouchable while output and employment are clearly cyclical.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/25/eu-leaders-mark-60th-anniversary-with-rome-declaration

The UK's Brexit vote is described as "closed nationalism that belongs in the past" on the day that EU leaders celebrate the EU's 60th anniversary.

"The UK was barely mentioned by any of the EU leaders at the summit, except as an example of the dangers of populism:"

Irrelevant, we'dhave not been mentioned if Brexit had never happened. The EU Leaders were never keen on Britain (if you read between the lines and body language) or our people, although very keen on our financial contributions. Glad we're moving away from that glorified Masonic Lodge.
 
Irrelevant, we'dhave not been mentioned if Brexit had never happened. The EU Leaders were never keen on Britain (if you read between the lines and body language) or our people, although very keen on our financial contributions. Glad we're moving away from that glorified Masonic Lodge.

I'd say it was more the other way around.

BTW,there's a double negative in your opening sentence.Are you saying we would have been mentioned (and presumably invited ) if Brexit hadn't happened? :winking:
 
Inevitably, (as there was in France after the terrorist outrages there), there will be a drop in tourist numbers coming to visit the UK (and London in particular) in future.

Perhaps I'm being a bit dim here but what has tourist numbers post a terrorist outrage in France got to do with a possible drop in tourist numbers coming to Britain post Brexit? Surely you're not equating the two?
 
I'd say it was more the other way around.

BTW,there's a double negative in your opening sentence.Are you saying we would have been mentioned (and presumably invited ) if Brexit hadn't happened? :winking:

Mentioned no, invited yes. The same way you have to invite the black sheep of the family to Christmas parties.

The same people marching today wouldn't be out celebrating the EUs 60th anniversary either. Street parties for jubilees and VE day, doubtful anyone would be doing the same to celebrate the EU.
 
Perhaps I'm being a bit dim here but what has tourist numbers post a terrorist outrage in France got to do with a possible drop in tourist numbers coming to Britain post Brexit? Surely you're not equating the two?

Not post Brexit as such, rather post the terrorist outrage in London last Wednesday.

Similar outrages in France were followed by a fall in tourism (especially from highly security conscious American and Japanese tourists).
 
Perhaps I'm being a bit dim here but what has tourist numbers post a terrorist outrage in France got to do with a possible drop in tourist numbers coming to Britain post Brexit? Surely you're not equating the two?

Not post Brexit as such, rather post the terrorist outrage in London last Wednesday.

Similar outrages in France were followed by a fall in tourism (especially from highly security conscious American and Japanese tourists).

So nothing then. :thumbsup:
 
So nothing then. :thumbsup:

dloman;1949321[B said:
]To counter that visitors to the UK are at record levels thus boosting the economy and offsetting a possible slowdown in spending[/B].

Inevitably, (as there was in France after the terrorist outrages there), there will be a drop in tourist numbers coming to visit the UK (and London in particular) in future.

The original post from dloman suggested that "visitors to the UK" are currently "at record levels ,partly because the pound has effectively been devalued since Brexit, thus "offsetting a possible slowdown in spending". I pointed out that, inevitably, after last Wednesday's terrorist attack this was unlikey to continue, at least in the short term,based on the French example.

I wouldn't call that "nothing." I'd call it a sad consequence of today's interrelated global econonmy.
 
Last edited:
The possible drop in tourist numbers due to the latest terrorist outrage in London is really quite inconsequential. A sad consequence yes, a tragedy for the tourist trade that will affect the overall prosperity of the UK going forward, certainly not.
 
The possible drop in tourist numbers due to the latest terrorist outrage in London is really quite inconsequential. A sad consequence yes, a tragedy for the tourist trade that will affect the overall prosperity of the UK going forward, certainly not.

We'll have to wait and see about that.

In any case personally, I don't think that any "drop in tourist numbers" in future is likely to be "really quite inconsequential."

As I said, it wasn't he case for France in general, (and Paris in particular ) last year.

It could well have a negative impact on the balance of payments, in the short term, since tourism is so important to the UK economy.
 

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