Gerrard Again

[Einstein]

:zzzzz:


:chill:

Clearly, good debating skills there. I'd expect a more intelligent post from a 5 year old.

 

[Beefy]

And yes, I'm sure had Revell done that in the 94th minute against Col Ewe some of you would still be saying the same.

There was clearly contact. Had there been no contact at all and he had dived like an Italian/Ronaldo does then I could understand the uproar. I am totally shocked by several of these comments.

Beefy, quite how you can call a midfielder who scored twenty one goals in 51 appearances in the best competitions of the world, "overrated" is totally beyond me. Yes, he may not perform for England in the same way he performs for Liverpool, however you clearly do not ever watch him in a Liverpool shirt.

Laurent dived on saturday. It was a blatant dive and we all screamed for a pen in the circumstances. But that doesn't make it right. Steven Gerrard is a serial diver. He's conned referee after referee and yet somehow he's still perceived by the public to be an honest Pro. Presumably because he's English and it's only those nasty foreigners who dive.

I call him overrated because he IS overrated. He scores lots of goals for Liverpool (although not as many as Lampard or Ronaldo score from similar advanced positions) but if you believe the crap that our media spout about him then he's one of the best midfielders in the World when he's clearly not. He rarely dominates games, he can't tackle, he has no discipline and he's not half the passer that he thinks he is.

But whether he's any good or not isn't the issue. Maradona was the best player in the World but he was still a cheat and so is Gerrard. Athletico Madrid are just the latest in a long line of teams who he has stolen penalties off of for next to nothing.

You going to neg-rep me again now for daring to have a different opinion to yours?

 

[sufcintheprem]

And yes, I'm sure had Revell done that in the 94th minute against Col Ewe some of you would still be saying the same.

There was clearly contact. Had there been no contact at all and he had dived like an Italian/Ronaldo does then I could understand the uproar. I am totally shocked by several of these comments.

Beefy, quite how you can call a midfielder who scored twenty one goals in 51 appearances in the best competitions of the world, "overrated" is totally beyond me. Yes, he may not perform for England in the same way he performs for Liverpool, however you clearly do not ever watch him in a Liverpool shirt.

Sorry mate but if I had gone up for a header (chance would be a fine thing) and taken a nudge, I'd have gone down all arms and legs. Gerrard is a professional footballer who has been out heading balls most of his working life.

If you watch that clip carefully, the defender's contact is with his leading shoulder and hits Gerrard's left side. I can't think of any explanation for why his right arm is flailing other than more of the theatrics he so regularly condemns.

 

[Einstein]

if you believe the crap that our media spout about him then he's one of the best midfielders in the World when he's clearly not.

Would be quite hard to believe the media stuff. I've probably read an English paper only twice in over two years.

He rarely dominates games, he can't tackle, he has no discipline and he's not half the passer that he thinks he is.

That is without a doubt, the worst post I've read on SZ for a long long time. I'm sorry, but I'd even go as far as saying it's worse than any post I've read from Wiggy or TTK this season. Unbelievable.

 

[Einstein]

Sorry mate but if I had gone up for a header (chance would be a fine thing) and taken a nudge, I'd have gone down all arms and legs. Gerrard is a professional footballer who has been out heading balls most of his working life.

If you watch that clip carefully, the defender's contact is with his leading shoulder and hits Gerrard's left side. I can't think of any explanation for why his right arm is flailing other than more of the theatrics he so regularly condemns.

I've not stated anywhere that it actually was a penalty though. Gerrard will know he has been very lucky to get a penalty and yes, he made a meal of it. But if I was a Liverpool supporter and in the 94th minute of a major European game, I'd expect a player who is paid $100,000 a week, should do whatever he can for the club. If that includes making a meal of it (which is not cheating!) then so be it. I'm quite happy if Laurent makes a meal of a challenge every week, if he clearly dives without any sign of contact then it's a totally different situation IMO.

As I said, there was clearly contact and IMO he was entitled to go for a penalty. Had there been no contact and he had gone down in that circumstance then there is not a hope in hell I'd defend him. (Or any player for that matter).

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

He certainly made the most of it, but to be fair Liverpool had a very good penalty shout turned down, a possible one with the "tackle" opening minutes, and I seem to recall another handball not given in the first half. Add this to the two corners they didn't get and i think you have to say they deserved that soft penalty at the end

 

[The General]

He was looking for it. Not a pen IMO. Seen them given. Seen them not given.

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Gerrard has been voted into the last two FIFPro teams by fellow professionals around the world, so he's evidently rated by a lot of people who know a fair bit about the game.

 

[Stats]

Very soft penalty decision IMHO but Liverpool had a good shout for one turned down beforehand, they do say luck evens itself out.

Thing is had this challenge of been made on the halfway line and a free kick given then no one would say anything, just because its in the box its now livened up into a debate.

Other thing we have to take into account here is that challenge in real time would of probably looked like a stone certain penalty to the ref and assistant. They dont have the benefit of super slomo's from 1000's of angles.

And in regards to the question would you be happy if a Southend player did that and won a penalty then I'd say yes, its smart play and its the case of if you dont ask you dont get. At the end of the day if that won us a cup or promotion then your not gonna complain, every other team does it so why shouldnt we look to follow suit.

 

[Alexis_SUFC]

I'm not the biggest fan of Gerrard and think he made a meal out of it, but the defender really has to think about the challenge. Where was Gerrard going when he won the header? he was being pushed out wide and it probs would have gone for a goal kick/throw.

The thing I really dont lilke about Gerrard are the lunging tackles he seems to get away with because of who he is.

 

[shrimper4life]

He rarely dominates games, he can't tackle, he has no discipline and he's not half the passer that he thinks he is.
?

So Gerrard can't tackle?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gskfOKv3SSM&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PLb0O5XwpNE&feature=related


And he can't pass?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OccUnZ1s8Xs&feature=related

And he has no discipline, even though he's had one red card in 5 years?

Shows how much you know about football

 

[Harold Bishop Killer]

That is soft. No question that Gerrard had contact when jumping but still that is a soft penalty. 50/50 ball and not really deserving of a penalty.

And Gerrard is better than Fat Frank!

 

[shrimp to 11]

Absolutely a dive! The guy's a cheatin ****. He should be brought to book for that.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Haven't read all of this so apologies if someone else has said it, but that's no more a penalty than Laurent's against Gerken was on Saturday - both dives.

 

[* ORM *]

It was more of a penalty than one I saw given last night. I forget which game but there was ZERO contact. I never thought I would here myself saying this but I'm starting to believe in video technology being used for key moments. In this instance play had already been stopped so I don't see how it would disrupt the flow of the game. Where there is NO contact a yellow card for the cheater works.

Did Gerrard dive ? I don't think so. Was there any need for the defender to make contact ? Probably not. Was it a pen ? On the basis that it would have been a free kick anywhere else on the pitch then, reluctantly, yes.

I hate cheating and I'd quite happily see an SUFC player carded and fined for conning a referee. The fact that others do it does not make it a reason to join in. FIFA/UEFA should start to come down harder on players and refs for not enforcing the laws of the game.

 

[sufcintheprem]

I've not stated anywhere that it actually was a penalty though. Gerrard will know he has been very lucky to get a penalty and yes, he made a meal of it. But if I was a Liverpool supporter and in the 94th minute of a major European game, I'd expect a player who is paid $100,000 a week, should do whatever he can for the club. If that includes making a meal of it (which is not cheating!) then so be it. I'm quite happy if Laurent makes a meal of a challenge every week, if he clearly dives without any sign of contact then it's a totally different situation IMO.

As I said, there was clearly contact and IMO he was entitled to go for a penalty. Had there been no contact and he had gone down in that circumstance then there is not a hope in hell I'd defend him. (Or any player for that matter).

The line is such a fine one though.

Getting your body in the way of a player going to challenge for the ball is fine for me.

Throwing your arms in the air at a routine aerial challenge is like hanging your leg out when a defender has mistimed his challenge.

 

[fredheim_holm]

If that includes making a meal of it (which is not cheating!) then so be it.

I disagree mate. Clearly been out in Holland too long, making a meal of something is cheating in my eyes. If you're running along and someone trips you should you do multiple rolls on the floor before taking ages to get up? It's wrong.



Also, I think Gerrard didn't 'dive'. He made a massive deal out of not much and cheated Atletico though.

 

[Beefy]

So Gerrard can't tackle?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gskfOKv3SSM&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PLb0O5XwpNE&feature=related


And he can't pass?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OccUnZ1s8Xs&feature=related

And he has no discipline, even though he's had one red card in 5 years?

Shows how much you know about football

I was referring to tactical discipline. Of which he has none, hence why he never stays out wide when put there for club and country and needs two holding players behind him for Liverpool to do his tackling for him. Of course he hasn't been sent off much in the past five years - he's a model pro, remember. A role-model for kids everywhere to follow.

You've found a couple of decent tackles from him. Well done. I'm sure you could find a couple of decent tackles from Paul Scholes and Che Wilson too. I doubt even Gerrard would consider tackling to be his forte. As for passing, I said that he's not half the passer that he thinks he is. Yeah he does pop up with a lot of good, long-range passes but he thinks he's as good at it as David Beckham is. In just about every England game I've seen him in he's attempted Hollywood pass after Hollywood pass and inevitably they end up twenty yards ahead of the player that he's aiming for.

Steven Gerrard is clearly a very good footballer. For Liverpool at least. He's both a good goalscorer and a scorer of good goals. But he's not as good as he's hyped up to be and yet apparently it's considered sacrilegious to question whether there are flaws in his game. It's like having Kevin Maher back here again. But my point wasn't primarily that he's no good it's that he's a cheat and a hypocrite and I note that no one has argued with the evidenced that I supplied to both of those accusations.

 

[Beefy]

That is without a doubt, the worst post I've read on SZ for a long long time. I'm sorry, but I'd even go as far as saying it's worse than any post I've read from Wiggy or TTK this season. Unbelievable.

Because I dared to disagree with you? Because I dared to suggest that Steven Gerrard isn't the best player in the World and shouldn't be cheating Clubs and Countries alike? Wow, you can't read many posts.

 

[Einstein]

Because I dared to disagree with you? Because I dared to suggest that Steven Gerrard isn't the best player in the World and shouldn't be cheating Clubs and Countries alike? Wow, you can't read many posts.

Not at all.

Perhaps you need to read your post again.

He rarely dominates games, he can't tackle, he has no discipline and he's not half the passer that he thinks he is.

That's been stated as a fact, not an opinion, which is exactly why I jumped on it.

You've clearly backtracked in the above post. How can a midfielder be a very good player when;

a) He cannot dominate a game from central midfield (IMO the one position it's easiest to)
b) He cannot tackle (quite an important attribute for a midfielder I'd say)
c) He is not tactically disciplined (I'd say positioning is another one of the biggest things playing centre midfield)
d) He cannot pass the ball (probably the biggest attribute required for a central midfielder!)

I'm wondering what attributes you believe you need to become a very good footballer then? And yes, that's a genuine question. I'd say half the League One central midfielders can do the above to a very good standard so wondering why he is playing in the Premiership and they are League One.