Question Fix the North Bank now?

[WestyReturns]

That was Ron's plan for Championship football. It was Bury's plan as well......And ever other club that have nearly gone bust.

Yes I get there are plenty of fans who think good owner is a wealthy idiot who just wants to waste his fortune on them. Thankfully that's not COSU. If they want to look after the real fans and not just the "ill come if we are top" types then good on them..... They have made this business plan clear....So best get used to it.

I don't agree. I've witnessed a huge majority of fans just want to see us run sensibly and absolutely delighted with COSU. Always getting wrong old Riggy.

 

[Fairport]

In the 2022/2023 season of 77 EFL clubs that posted their annual accounts only 4 actually made a profit. It's worth being realistic when trying to run a football club on a sustainable basis.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

In the 2022/2023 season of 77 EFL clubs that posted their annual accounts only 4 actually made a profit. It's worth being realistic when trying to run a football club on a sustainable basis.

We all know there are "ways & means" of not showing a profit but even so 4 from 77 is a very interesting figure.

It basically means that 73 clubs are running at a loss in order to try to stay competitive & are reliant on the chairman for their future. Interesting.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

A very well written post and highlights the crucial fact.

I still don't believe it's possible for us to break even in the national league.

I'd love to be wrong.

Will infrastructure change, matchday options improve finances? Of course.

A cup run or selling a player or two will also help, but unless we regularly sell players for several 100k and or get prem sides in the cup away from home, then it still won't be enough.

This football club needs league football.

It needs the TV money and extra 1-2 million that brings.

If I were a rich man I would love to invest in the club ................ but the picture you paint above is rather sobering.

Getting out of this league was never going to be easy.

 

[Westcliff Shrimper]

I'm not suggesting we should buy players on big money but we do need to seriously hoover up the best from this division and below and find another 3 or 4 GSMs per season. He has been excellent and will have real sell on value, having only cost a small fee. This is the model we were promised and that seems to have faded.

Agree with you Tom (as I do on a lot of things as you well know) but in mitigation, M'Lud, we have been in an almost permanent embargo over the last couple of seasons. This has meant that a lot of identified targets have been missed. The next versions of GSM, Cards etc. I'm sure were out there but the football department haven't been able to do anything about it.

Am sure the next lower league gem is being watched at the moment and his signing will come out of the blue!

(pun intended).

 

[BoyWonder2]

Am sure the next lower league gem is being watched at the moment and his signing will come out of the blue!

(pun intended).

100% they are. But sometimes, there isn’t a place for them at this moment in time, so an eye is on them for the future. I’ll give you a current example…

Heybridge Swifts have just signed Vinnie Bowman, who was previously with Margate. He has scored 4 goals in just 415 minutes of senior football last season aged 16 then 17. John Still flagged his talents up, whilst watching another player.

However, at 17, he is a long way off first team ready at Southend United, as shown by his move to Heybridge Swifts. He has had trials at West Ham and Millwall and a number of Football League clubs have sent scouts to watch him.

Now, we don’t have the team for him to play in. We have no B team, no reserve team, no under 23’s. Just the Under 19’s that are ran by the community trust (that’s right isn’t it?).

He has got himself a move to play “men’s” football, whereas if he moved here, he’d be playing “kids” football.

He could move to West Ham, Millwall, or one of the football league clubs, as they have the teams for him. But we simply don’t.

We could sign him for the first team, but wouldn’t be breaking into it for a long time. When we need a striker, there would be uproar if he was someone brought in, just like there was with Bim Pepple.

He is someone I’ll be keeping an eye on, and as Heybridge Swifts are just round the corner from me, I’ll try and get over and watch him. Something may or may not happen with him in the future.

 

[* ORM *]

In the 2022/2023 season of 77 EFL clubs that posted their annual accounts only 4 actually made a profit. It's worth being realistic when trying to run a football club on a sustainable basis.

If clubs were forced to prove short and long term solvency with immediate irrevocable points deductions you’d soon see a massive sea change. That day cannot come soon enough.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

A very well written post and highlights the crucial fact.

I still don't believe it's possible for us to break even in the national league.

I'd love to be wrong.

Will infrastructure change, matchday options improve finances? Of course.

A cup run or selling a player or two will also help, but unless we regularly sell players for several 100k and or get prem sides in the cup away from home, then it still won't be enough.

This football club needs league football.

It needs the TV money and extra 1-2 million that brings.

It needs to see the away end full several times per season and or at least 500+ often, instead of 80 or so we are currently seeing.

I still maintain that regaining league status is a far better income model than any improvements we make off the pitch at national league level.

With the exception of maybe grimsby and Bromley almost all of those that have gone up and flourished in the EFL have spent money to do so.

We could have the best facilities in the league and excellent match day choices but ultimately its what's on the pitch and league position that dictates the state of finances.

I'm not suggesting we should buy players on big money but we do need to seriously hoover up the best from this division and below and find another 3 or 4 GSMs per season. He has been excellent and will have real sell on value, having only cost a small fee. This is the model we were promised and that seems to have faded away.

The thing is I can see you saying exactly the same once back we’re in L2. L2 is a much more Northern division and you’ll be complaining that Barrow, Salford, Newport, Accrington, Fleetwood, Harrogate etc don’t bring any fans. There will be less TV coverage in L2 than the NL; players will want FL wages; the youth academy will be way more expensive to run; there will be no FA Trophy etc. People won’t want to come when we’re languishing in the bottom half of the division you’ll say… we just need to get promoted to L1…

 

[kentblues]

100% they are. But sometimes, there isn’t a place for them at this moment in time, so an eye is on them for the future. I’ll give you a current example…

Heybridge Swifts have just signed Vinnie Bowman, who was previously with Margate. He has scored 4 goals in just 415 minutes of senior football last season aged 16 then 17. John Still flagged his talents up, whilst watching another player.

However, at 17, he is a long way off first team ready at Southend United, as shown by his move to Heybridge Swifts. He has had trials at West Ham and Millwall and a number of Football League clubs have sent scouts to watch him.

Now, we don’t have the team for him to play in. We have no B team, no reserve team, no under 23’s. Just the Under 19’s that are ran by the community trust (that’s right isn’t it?).

He has got himself a move to play “men’s” football, whereas if he moved here, he’d be playing “kids” football.

He could move to West Ham, Millwall, or one of the football league clubs, as they have the teams for him. But we simply don’t.

We could sign him for the first team, but wouldn’t be breaking into it for a long time. When we need a striker, there would be uproar if he was someone brought in, just like there was with Bim Pepple.

He is someone I’ll be keeping an eye on, and as Heybridge Swifts are just round the corner from me, I’ll try and get over and watch him. Something may or may not happen with him in the future.

I guess we could bring him in and then get him loans of increasing quality. This is part of why building strong relationships with other clubs is of importance- that is far more possible with our new owners and management team.

Keeping an eye on him until he attracts even more attention from teams we can’t compete with isn’t great. I think the model, if built on gems from the lower leagues, also needs us to be using our network to get players before everyone else wants them. He wouldn’t cost a lot in terms of wages and if John Still rated highly…We could bring him in and send to HS on a season long loan?

I’m guessing us having the development opportunities in house requires us to be back in the NL.

 

[BoyWonder2]

I guess we could bring him in and then get him loans of increasing quality. This is part of why building strong relationships with other clubs is of importance- that is far more possible with our new owners and management team.

Keeping an eye on him until he attracts even more attention from teams we can’t compete with isn’t great. I think the model, if built on gems from the lower leagues, also needs us to be using our network to get players before everyone else wants them. He wouldn’t cost a lot in terms of wages and if John Still rated highly…We could bring him in and send to HS on a season long loan?

I’m guessing us having the development opportunities in house requires us to be back in the NL.

We can’t do that with every single player JS rates. We don’t have the squad space, the budget or anything like that.

It’s a balancing act, and one I’m glad I’m not in charge of. What happens if we can’t shift him out on loan? What about if he fails miserably on his first loan spell, and then no one else takes him? What about if he doesn’t have progress how we like/expect?

He is studying for his A levels at the moment too, so restricts where we’d be able to send him as well.

 

[Medway Blue]

A very well written post and highlights the crucial fact.

I still don't believe it's possible for us to break even in the national league.

I'd love to be wrong.

Will infrastructure change, matchday options improve finances? Of course.

A cup run or selling a player or two will also help, but unless we regularly sell players for several 100k and or get prem sides in the cup away from home, then it still won't be enough.

This football club needs league football.

It needs the TV money and extra 1-2 million that brings.

It needs to see the away end full several times per season and or at least 500+ often, instead of 80 or so we are currently seeing.

I still maintain that regaining league status is a far better income model than any improvements we make off the pitch at national league level.

With the exception of maybe grimsby and Bromley almost all of those that have gone up and flourished in the EFL have spent money to do so.

We could have the best facilities in the league and excellent match day choices but ultimately its what's on the pitch and league position that dictates the state of finances.

I'm not suggesting we should buy players on big money but we do need to seriously hoover up the best from this division and below and find another 3 or 4 GSMs per season. He has been excellent and will have real sell on value, having only cost a small fee. This is the model we were promised and that seems to have faded.

I don't think COSU are fully factoring EFL money into their projections of breakeven.

I think you'll probably find that the vast, vast majority of the current operating deficit is anticipated to be closed through revenue generated by a new east stand, and a fully-functional facility at the new training ground.

You would think that those can and will be built whatever division the club is in, and even if they don't fully close the gap, they would come remarkably close. Relying on regaining league status for an income model is dangerous and short-termist. The improvements that we make off the pitch would be long-term, and would help the club to generate much more income so that it can better support further expenditure without relying on the gift of owners who might be willing to lose money.

I also think some people's projections of £1m-£2m more coming in just by getting promoted to the EFL is a bit of a stretch, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. And even if it were accurate, it might cover our current operating losses, but then more money will need to be spent on fees and wages to construct a squad that can stay up in League 2, so then we're losing money again........and then there will be supporters who can't stand being mid-table in League 2 and want to go for promotion, so then the losses grow again. It turns into a vicious cycle.

For the above, and several other reasons, I just don't think the bit of your post that I've put in bold is true. Promotion back to the EFL is not the financial saviour that people think it will be, and relying on more away fans is back to living week-to-week. We need the club's infrastructure invested in so that bigger away followings at Roots Hall are an added bonus, rather than relying on them.

Maybe self-sufficiency is too broad a stroke, because outgoings would have to increase if the club moved up a level or two in order to be competitive, and who knows whether the revenue-generating elements our new facilities (if completed then) could keep up?

But closing the current operating loss as much as possible is an absolute must.

If it gets back to breakeven, it's then up to the owner to decide whether they'd like to review how much of their own money they're putting in. An extra £500k per year on the playing budget from a breakeven position would see them losing £500k per year, as opposed to an extra £500k per year on the playing budget now, which would swell their losses to £2m per year.

 

[Tommy2holes]

I don't think COSU are fully factoring EFL money into their projections of breakeven.

I think you'll probably find that the vast, vast majority of the current operating deficit is anticipated to be closed through revenue generated by a new east stand, and a fully-functional facility at the new training ground.

You would think that those can and will be built whatever division the club is in, and even if they don't fully close the gap, they would come remarkably close. Relying on regaining league status for an income model is dangerous and short-termist. The improvements that we make off the pitch would be long-term, and would help the club to generate much more income so that it can better support further expenditure without relying on the gift of owners who might be willing to lose money.

I also think some people's projections of £1m-£2m more coming in just by getting promoted to the EFL is a bit of a stretch, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. And even if it were accurate, it might cover our current operating losses, but then more money will need to be spent on fees and wages to construct a squad that can stay up in League 2, so then we're losing money again........and then there will be supporters who can't stand being mid-table in League 2 and want to go for promotion, so then the losses grow again. It turns into a vicious cycle.

For the above, and several other reasons, I just don't think the bit of your post that I've put in bold is true. Promotion back to the EFL is not the financial saviour that people think it will be, and relying on more away fans is back to living week-to-week. We need the club's infrastructure invested in so that bigger away followings at Roots Hall are an added bonus, rather than relying on them.

Maybe self-sufficiency is too broad a stroke, because outgoings would have to increase if the club moved up a level or two in order to be competitive, and who knows whether the revenue-generating elements our new facilities (if completed then) could keep up?

But closing the current operating loss as much as possible is an absolute must.

If it gets back to breakeven, it's then up to the owner to decide whether they'd like to review how much of their own money they're putting in. An extra £500k per year on the playing budget from a breakeven position would see them losing £500k per year, as opposed to an extra £500k per year on the playing budget now, which would swell their losses to £2m per year.

EFL announces landmark broadcasting deal with Sky Sports

EFL clubs have unanimously approved a record domestic rights deal with broadcaster Sky Sports worth £935m over a five-year period with over 1,000 matches to be broadcast each season – a record number of games for any club football agreement.Running from season 2024/25 to season 2028/29, the...

www.skygroup.sky

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

If clubs were forced to prove short and long term solvency with immediate irrevocable points deductions you’d soon see a massive sea change. That day cannot come soon enough.

You know as well as I do that declaring profit to the tax man is the biggest avoidance act of most businesses; and that includes football clubs.
If equipment is bought, facilities up rated, wages swollen off to the owners, all to get to a net balance or sustainable deficit at the end of a trading year, then the goal is met.
It may not read as impressive as posting £££ profits but that only works (largely) for share holder dividends/ bonus payments or selling the company.

 

[Medway Blue]

EFL announces landmark broadcasting deal with Sky Sports

EFL clubs have unanimously approved a record domestic rights deal with broadcaster Sky Sports worth £935m over a five-year period with over 1,000 matches to be broadcast each season – a record number of games for any club football agreement.Running from season 2024/25 to season 2028/29, the...

www.skygroup.sky

Hmmmm, I can't find out, either from this article or from elsewhere, how much money this means clubs in each division are receiving.

 

[Westcliff Shrimper]

100% they are. But sometimes, there isn’t a place for them at this moment in time, so an eye is on them for the future. I’ll give you a current example…

Heybridge Swifts have just signed Vinnie Bowman, who was previously with Margate. He has scored 4 goals in just 415 minutes of senior football last season aged 16 then 17. John Still flagged his talents up, whilst watching another player.

However, at 17, he is a long way off first team ready at Southend United, as shown by his move to Heybridge Swifts. He has had trials at West Ham and Millwall and a number of Football League clubs have sent scouts to watch him.

Now, we don’t have the team for him to play in. We have no B team, no reserve team, no under 23’s. Just the Under 19’s that are ran by the community trust (that’s right isn’t it?).

He has got himself a move to play “men’s” football, whereas if he moved here, he’d be playing “kids” football.

He could move to West Ham, Millwall, or one of the football league clubs, as they have the teams for him. But we simply don’t.

We could sign him for the first team, but wouldn’t be breaking into it for a long time. When we need a striker, there would be uproar if he was someone brought in, just like there was with Bim Pepple.

He is someone I’ll be keeping an eye on, and as Heybridge Swifts are just round the corner from me, I’ll try and get over and watch him. Something may or may not happen with him in the future.

Found out what's wrong with him. He supports Wet Sham. In the bin.

 

[Holy Joe]

You know as well as I do that declaring profit to the tax man is the biggest avoidance act of most businesses; and that includes football clubs.
If equipment is bought, facilities up rated, wages swollen off to the owners, all to get to a net balance or sustainable deficit at the end of a trading year, then the goal is met.
It may not read as impressive as posting £££ profits but that only works (largely) for share holder dividends/ bonus payments or selling the company.

I'm not convinced there are many clubs 'massaging' the numbers to reduce profits - isn't more the other way around with FFP, clubs are hiding losses.

 

[Grayson]

Whilst we were in the EFL, the majority of fans (myself included) were completely oblivious to what successful NL clubs were doing to generate revenue. We were fixated with TV money and gate receipts, and many of these clubs had neither of that, and had to find other means.

The likes of Bromley have been able to outspend us because they have facilities generating revenue all year round, which makes up (and more) for what us 5-6k can do every fortnight. COSU are trying to get us to that position. Once we have that, and only then, will the number of fans we get through the gate becomes advantageous.

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

Whilst we were in the EFL, the majority of fans (myself included) were completely oblivious to what successful NL clubs were doing to generate revenue. We were fixated with TV money and gate receipts, and many of these clubs had neither of that, and had to find other means.

The likes of Bromley have been able to outspend us because they have facilities generating revenue all year round, which makes up (and more) for what us 5-6k can do every fortnight. COSU are trying to get us to that position. Once we have that, and only then, will the number of fans we get through the gate becomes advantageous.

This is such a good point. Whilst we were in the EFL, let's be honest, people didn't care about if there was no non-matchday revenue. Fans were content with just rocking up and seeing the likes of Cox playing. That false promise of the golden land at FF kept people at bay. It's only recently when we were nearly sent into an oblivion do people actually take stock of what is required. Even then, there are still some that are demanding big money signings instead of stability off the field.

As you quite rightly point out, we aren't trying to be like Bromley in stature, but we certainly need to try and replicate a business model like theirs.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

I don't agree. I've witnessed a huge majority of fans just want to see us run sensibly and absolutely delighted with COSU. Always getting wrong old Riggy.

What........ Have you been on this board after we lose a game. IMO Rigsby is correct, you are incorrect.

 

[kentblues]

We can’t do that with every single player JS rates. We don’t have the squad space, the budget or anything like that.

It’s a balancing act, and one I’m glad I’m not in charge of. What happens if we can’t shift him out on loan? What about if he fails miserably on his first loan spell, and then no one else takes him? What about if he doesn’t have progress how we like/expect?

He is studying for his A levels at the moment too, so restricts where we’d be able to send him as well.

Not every single player but how many have we done it with this far? If none then maybe we need to reflect. We need to commit to an approach perhaps