E-mail sent to club

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ Nov. 02 2006,13:49)]See my previous response to Xabia Shrimper - I couldn't care less about "mums and dads with their kids". I care very much about avoiding a repeat of what happened at Orient on a much greater scale and broadcast live on national television.

But, from what I have read, you're the only one that's getting worked up about Man Ure fans in the home areas!! Don't you think that finger-pointing is just going to make things worse?! If they're not doing anything wrong, leave them be!! I bet they couldn't give a monkey's about Southend; they just want to see their team play football!!

 

[Mick]

Quote[/b] (CSWICKFORDSHRIMPER @ Nov. 02 2006,13:54)]True fans like me missed out

SO Im going with my Florescent Jacket on then,  going to  hang outside the West Stand any  fans with Man U colours entering the west stand ( HOME END) Will have their Ticket confiscated by me, Hey

BINGO  

I HAVE A TICKET :-)

One Team In Essex
SUFC

I reckon well over 1000 Man U fans will have Tickets for the home ends... I hear Touts have had a field day yesterday...

Got a spare jacket ?

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Mick @ Nov. 02 2006,15:45)]

Quote[/b] (CSWICKFORDSHRIMPER @ Nov. 02 2006,13:54)]True fans like me missed out

SO Im going with my Florescent Jacket on then,  going to  hang outside the West Stand any  fans with Man U colours entering the west stand ( HOME END) Will have their Ticket confiscated by me, Hey

BINGO  

I HAVE A TICKET :-)

One Team In Essex
SUFC

I reckon well over 1000 Man U fans will have Tickets for the home ends... I hear Touts have had a field day yesterday...

Got a spare jacket ?

I'm sure I speak for all of Shrimperzone when I say that Shrimperzone in no way condones anyone who decides to don a bright orange jacket and stand outside the queues for the turnstiles in the West checking tickets.

I'm sure no Southend fan would try such a scam on anyone wearing Man U shirts/scarves etc trying to gain access to the home enclosures. To exploit their lack of familiarity with attending games at Roots Hall would of course be wrong.

In particular it would be very wrong for fans without tickets to carry out ticket inspections which involved the tearing off of the barcode and then trying to enter using that barcode through the unmanned ticket barriers.

 

[Groyne Strain]

The solution is simple. Limit Man ure's away allocation to Manchester reds only. Then, when their half-empty mini-bus turns up, you put the Essex and cockney reds that turned up in other parts of the ground in with them.

 

[Tilly hates yellow boots]

Quote[/b] (Lord Football @ Nov. 02 2006,10:46)]Rather than be causing problems by spending 90 mins attempting to get people ejected, the best solution is to stand up, open your lungs and for 90 mins put your heart and soul into supporting the home team.

I got told off for standing up in south lower and next time i stand i get ejected myself, so i hope you don't mind if i sit down and sing my lungs out ??

 

[Suffolk Blue]

I'm not sure why Man Utd should be treated differently from other teams' supporters at the Hall.  Tickets are sold on the Internet subject to the following T&Cs:

Quote[/b] ]All tickets sold via the internet are for home areas and supporters only. Away team supporters purchasing these tickets risk rejection from the ground with no refund.

That suggests to me that the club have a general policy of ejecting away fans from home ends.  The "risk ejection" bit implies to me that this would happen if they are spotted.  I've seen mouthy Yeovil, Swansea, and Orient fans ejected from the East Stand and would expect Man U fans to be treated the same if they make themselves visible by chanting, taunting etc.

The bad old days of football were confined to the past (I hope) in great part due to the enforced segregation of home and away fans, and improved policing and crowd control that this enabled.

Let's ask a hypothetical question.  What would we think if we got Millwall, or Cardiff at home in the FA Cup Quarter-Final; still happy about letting them sit wherever they like in whatever numbers they decide to bring?

 

[TrueBlue]

Quote[/b] (Smiffy @ Nov. 02 2006,09:34)]Well done SS...

I haven't got a problem with Mancs in our end, they have queued like everyone else etc etc....as long as they respect the fact they are in the home end...

If I hear or see a Manc openly singing or celebrating in our end, there's going to be a few words said....

Quote[/b] ]If I hear or see a Manc openly singing or celebrating in our end, there's going to be a few words said....

by you hahahahaha you would sh!t urself fella

 

[TrueBlue]

I see any man utd fan in the home end I will take him out... Why? because hes a man utd fan? NO!

Because he inturn has caused sombody a SOUTHEND supporter from getting a ticket and for me that is not on

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Suffolk Blue @ Nov. 03 2006,07:32)]I'm not sure why Man Utd should be treated differently from other teams' supporters at the Hall.  Tickets are sold on the Internet subject to the following T&Cs:

Quote[/b] ]All tickets sold via the internet are for home areas and supporters only. Away team supporters purchasing these tickets risk rejection from the ground with no refund.

That suggests to me that the club have a general policy of ejecting away fans from home ends.  The "risk ejection" bit implies to me that this would happen if they are spotted.  I've seen mouthy Yeovil, Swansea, and Orient fans ejected from the East Stand and would expect Man U fans to be treated the same if they make themselves visible by chanting, taunting etc.

The bad old days of football were confined to the past (I hope) in great part due to the enforced segregation of home and away fans, and improved policing and crowd control that this enabled.

Let's ask a hypothetical question.  What would we think if we got Millwall, or Cardiff at home in the FA Cup Quarter-Final; still happy about letting them sit wherever they like in whatever numbers they decide to bring?

Exactly, and put rather more eloquently than I managed.

Now you'll doubtless be subjected to a barrage of straw man bullsh*t about how you're advocating the ejection of families peacefully trying to watch the game, all in an attempt to deflect from the real issues. It's almost enough to make me miss CS J - at least when he wanted to disrupt a discussion solely for his own amusement he didn't try to pretend otherwise.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ Nov. 03 2006,13:08)]Now you'll doubtless be subjected to a barrage of straw man bullsh*t about how you're advocating the ejection of families peacefully trying to watch the game, all in an attempt to deflect from the real issues.

Look - it's the perceived witch-hunt that I objected to. Why on earth write to the club? To try to stir things up yourself?! Why can't you just concentrate on the excitement of the the game with the rest of us, rather than try to whip up confrontation before it has even started (if it ever would)? If someone is being abusive or provocative - Southend or Man Ure - then they should be dealt with and they will be dealt with. Leave it to the club to decide.

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Nov. 03 2006,12:19)]

Quote[/b] (Sussex Shrimper @ Nov. 03 2006,13:08)]Now you'll doubtless be subjected to a barrage of straw man bullsh*t about how you're advocating the ejection of families peacefully trying to watch the game, all in an attempt to deflect from the real issues.

Look - it's the perceived witch-hunt that I objected to. Why on earth write to the club? To try to stir things up yourself?! Why can't you just concentrate on the excitement of the the game with the rest of us, rather than try to whip up confrontation before it has even started (if it ever would)? If someone is being abusive or provocative - Southend or Man Ure - then they should be dealt with and they will be dealt with. Leave it to the club to decide.

I wrote to the club for clarity on ground rules, so that if, and only if, there were away fans in the home end behaving in a manner likely to provoke a reaction, rightly or wrongly, from our fans I would be ready to raise the matter with stewards with confidence that I would be correct in asserting that the WUM's should be removed for the safety of everyone around. If you think that I'm wrong on that then by all means tell me why, but I just don't see what constructive purpose it serves to accuse me of starting witch-hunts or persecuting innocent families when I've very clearly stated that I want nothing of the sort.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Nov. 02 2006,15:26)]

Quote[/b] (Einstein @ Nov. 02 2006,13:02)]Sorry Mike, in my opinion you are intent on looking to stir things up here on comments which nobody actually made.  

That was not my intention. What I am trying to work out is why we shouldn't accept other fans into the home areas of our stadium when our own fans have done the same thing at many other ground around the country over the past few years. It just smacks of double-standards and that's what annoys me. If there are hundred or a thousand Man Ure fans in the home areas, does it matter? What gives someone the right to tell these people how they should act? What gives someone the right to encourage witch-hunts to dig out these people? If they put as much effort into supporting Southend United as they did writing bleating letters to the club heirarchy then maybe our club will have a chance next Tuesday. However, from where I'm sitting, it all looks rather pathetic ...

Mike stop fishing please. We've asked you about this before. I'm not even going to go into your post above because I know that you are not lacking in the intelligence required to see the point that you are continually 'missing'

Kindly give it a rest

 

[Andu]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Nov. 03 2006,12:31)]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Nov. 02 2006,15:26)]

Quote[/b] (Einstein @ Nov. 02 2006,13:02)]Sorry Mike, in my opinion you are intent on looking to stir things up here on comments which nobody actually made.  

That was not my intention. What I am trying to work out is why we shouldn't accept other fans into the home areas of our stadium when our own fans have done the same thing at many other ground around the country over the past few years. It just smacks of double-standards and that's what annoys me. If there are hundred or a thousand Man Ure fans in the home areas, does it matter? What gives someone the right to tell these people how they should act? What gives someone the right to encourage witch-hunts to dig out these people? If they put as much effort into supporting Southend United as they did writing bleating letters to the club heirarchy then maybe our club will have a chance next Tuesday. However, from where I'm sitting, it all looks rather pathetic ...

Mike stop fishing please. We've asked you about this before. I'm not even going to go into your post above because I know that you are not lacking in the intelligence required to see the point that you are continually 'missing'

Kindly give it a rest

I don't think your being entirely fair with Mike.
I understand that Sussex Shrimper is concerned about Man U fans causing trouble in the home end, but he hasn't exactly done himself any favours by his choice of wording, the very title " Manure scummers in the home end" could be considered provocative, and does lead you to think he is on some kind of mission. I know Mike likes to play devils advocate and has done his usual slightly OTT replies, but there are some points to his argument which are correct.

 

[chadded]

I think Mikes got a point. Whether we like it or not, Man U fans will be in the home end. C'est la vie. Life goes on. It is only a game, and there is more to life than football.

Personally, I couldn't do it. When we played Col******r away last year, I thought about going in the home end. But I don't believe I'd be able to keep quiet. Now Einstein is, IMO, correct. If you are in the home end and you celebrate, the chances are, you may get filled in. And the person doing it could get away with it, because you could be seen as inciting him/her. It's not right, but it's true.
On the other hand, it shouldn't happen, because as Mike said, football (hopefully) has come a long way since the 70's and 80's. This was before my time I hasten to add.

Mike is, I think, merely playing devils advocate. Even Mike will agree, that if he was in his seat in the East Greens completely surrounding by Man ure fans, he'd be slightly aggrieved.

 

[Bielzibubz]

After reading this thread through I feel I should put my two penneth worth in, if for no other reason than I'm just bored and couldn't resist.

SS makes a valid point and if I've read his posts correctly he in no way wants to start a whitch hunt, or whatever you want to call it. He makes the point of Man Ur fans possibly provoking in some way the Southend supporters situated in the home areas and has asked the club via email what its position is as far as the stewards resposibilities to deal with this situation (should it arise). I don't see anywhere in his posts where he advocates ejecting ALL Man Ure fans that happen to be sitting in a home area of the ground.....which, if he did would indeed constitute some sort of possible whitch hunt against them but seeing as he isn't I cannot see why that term should be used in the first place.

I have two season card seats virtually right next to me that aren't being used by the card holders and should a couple of Manure supporters be sitting there enjoying the game and joining in with a bit of friendly banter I for one wouldn't be to bothered (except possibly by the point Scott makes that a Southend supporter has missed out on those two tickets). if on the other hand said two Mancs are giving it the biggun and doing their level best to goad and wind everyone in the vicinity up with cheap jibes and insults then I sure as hell would expect them to be carted off by the short and curlies by a steward and promptly set light to in the car park. After all, it is bonfire weekend and what better way to celebrate than one or two smouldering northern types in the car park

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

I'm not fishing; don't treat me like an idiot, Steve; I'm merely pursuing an opinion that this is all very sad and pathetic.

The email stated that "I would be grateful if you could please clarify the club's position on the potential situation of seats allocated to home supporters being taken by away fans for next Tuesday's game [and] that you can provide assurance that the club will fulfil its obligation to remove any such fans identified and pointed out to stewards. In particular, could you please outine the club's policy on what constitutes support for the away team (e.g. colours, chanting, etc)."

What happens if families and kids (all wearing "colours") start supporting Manchester United (all "chanting") in the home areas? Does the writer of the original email really advocate that stewards wade in and remove those families and kids (and quite possibly ruining the whole experience for those kids) just because their fathers happened to get them tickets in the home areas for the biggest game of their lives? Really?!

Instead of worrying about the vocal support of opposition fans, he should be concerned about lifting the atmosphere in the home areas which, by all accounts, has been quite pathetic this season. Or is that the real reason of his complaint? That plastic Man Ure fans are going to show more passion for their team that the home fans?!

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (chadded @ Nov. 03 2006,13:47)]Mike is, I think, merely playing devils advocate. Even Mike will agree, that if he was in his seat in the East Greens completely surrounding by Man ure fans, he'd be slightly aggrieved.

Devil's advocate? Maybe. But if I was surrounded by Man Ure fans, I wouldn't go squealing to the nearest steward snatch squad. I lift my own support and make the most of what should be the most fantastic night of our lives for many years.

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Nov. 03 2006,12:48)]I'm not fishing; don't treat me like an idiot; I'm merely pursuing an opinion that this is all very sad and pathetic.

The email stated that "I would be grateful if you could please clarify the club's position on the potential situation of seats allocated to home supporters being taken by away fans for next Tuesday's game [and] that you can provide assurance that the club will fulfil its obligation to remove any such fans identified and pointed out to stewards. In particular, could you please outine the club's policy on what constitutes support for the away team (e.g. colours, chanting, etc)."

What happens if families and kids (all wearing "colours") start supporting Manchester United (all "chanting") in the home areas? Does the writer of the original email really advocate that stewards wade in and remove those families and kids (and quite possibly ruining the whole experience for those kids) just because their fathers happened to get them tickets in the home areas for the biggest game of their lives? Really?!

I want to know where the boundaries lie so that in the event of half-arsed stewarding, such as claims from stewards that they haven't personally heard any taunting, I know whether or not the fact that a person has been heard to do so by others, or that they are clearly displaying the oppositions colours is grounds for ejection. I've explained how I intend to use that information, and I've explained that I don't intend to use it against those who I don't believe intend to stir things up. Let me make this crystal clear - I'm not seeking the ejection of every man, woman and child who gives the slightest indication of support for Manchester United, I want to be ready to try to diffuse nasty situations, which HAVE occurred elsewhere with Manchester United fans, before they develop.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

The original emal didn't make that clear. You regarded any away fan in the home areas as "scummers" and advocated the removal of said "scummers" for supporting their team from the home areas. My concern is that such communication can be construed as encouragement for those less tolerant people (I won't call them Southend "fans") in the home areas to engage in their own "nasty situation". If families and kids are openly chanting for Manchester United without any hint of provocation towards home fans (i.e. their support is directed towards the players on the pitch), I can't see anything wrong with that and, in anything, it will enhance the atmosphere. And if any Neanderthal decides to provoke an incident, I dare say the club security staff will be on them like a shot whether or not they've been asked to do so by a fan. But, please remember: provocation and banter are entirely separate factors (or at least they should be). Good-spirited banter in the stands promotes the electric atmosphere we all so yearn for at Roots Hall; let's not spoil it with stamps of feet and cries of "s'not fair" ...

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Nov. 03 2006,13:07)]The original emal didn't make that clear. You regarded any away fan in the home areas as "scummers" and advocated the removal of said "scummers" for supporting their team from the home areas. My concern is that such communication can be construed as encouragement for those less tolerant people (I won't call them Southend "fans") in the home areas to engage in their own "nasty situation". If families and kids are openly chanting for Manchester United without any hint of provocation towards home fans (i.e. their support is directed towards the players on the pitch), I can't see anything wrong with that and, in anything, it will enhance the atmosphere. And if any Neanderthal decides to provoke an incident, I dare say the club security staff will be on them like a shot whether or not they've been asked to do so by a fan. But, please remember: provocation and banter are entirely separate factors (or at least they should be). Good-spirited banter in the stands promotes the electric atmosphere we all so yearn for at Roots Hall; let's not spoil it with stamps of feet and cries of "s'not fair" ...

I regard Southend fans who look to incite trouble as "scummers", or whatever else you want to call them, too. Where exactly did I say that all of their fans fit this description?