Delancey

[TrueBlue]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:23)]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:19)]Though how much have the trust go to offer?

It's not what they've currently got to offer but what they could potentially offer.

As I said, a well presented and marketed business plan with, crucially, something in return for a donation (eg shares in the club or Fossets Farm, discounted season tickets for x years etc) could bring significant results.

I'd be very surprised if we're talking about Russian Billionaire sums of money so it could be possible.

How do we get things in motion

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:24)]

Quote[/b] ]There is no clique, and even if there is, I'm certainly not in it.

bet your the ring leader!

Yeah, whatever mate...

 

[Smiffy]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:23)]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:19)]Though how much have the trust go to offer?

It's not what they've currently got to offer but what they could potentially offer.

As I said, a well presented and marketed business plan with, crucially, something in return for a donation (eg shares in the club or Fossets Farm, discounted season tickets for x years etc) could bring significant results.

I'd be very surprised if we're talking about Russian Billionaire sums of money so it could be possible.

Exactly, first step though has to be a representative from the Trust arranging a meeting with Ron to discuss what sort of figure we are talking about and whether we, the supporters have enough financial clout between us and potential outside backers to raise the figure in question.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:19)]

Quote[/b] (Smiffy @ Oct. 04 2005,13:13)]Brentford supporters have managed to find £800,000 or so....

That gives us some hope at least.

As UB pointed out...maybe we should find out from Uncle Ron, what exactly the short fall is and see if we can come to some sort of solution and agreement over the supporters finding the funds, in exchange for a share of the club.

Anyone here from the Trust willing to comment?

If a viable business propostion is put together that is well presented and marketed to the Southend public and businessess, raising a significant sum should be possible.

There is of course a precedent for this at this club, Roots Hall being it.

 

[Upminster Blue]

Quote[/b] (Smiffy @ Oct. 04 2005,13:28)]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:23)]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:19)]Though how much have the trust go to offer?

It's not what they've currently got to offer but what they could potentially offer.

As I said, a well presented and marketed business plan with, crucially, something in return for a donation (eg shares in the club or Fossets Farm, discounted season tickets for x years etc) could bring significant results.

I'd be very surprised if we're talking about Russian Billionaire sums of money so it could be possible.

Exactly, first step though has to be a representative from the Trust arranging a meeting with Ron to discuss what sort of figure we are talking about and whether we, the supporters have enough financial clout between us and potential outside backers to raise the figure in question.

I was thinking of sending an email to the Trust, not that they know me from adam, but wont have time to do it until this evening (must do some work

)

 

[Smiffy]

Same here,

where's Shrimpers Trust when you need him?...

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Oct. 04 2005,12:20)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Oct. 04 2005,11:44)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Oct. 04 2005,11:28)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Oct. 04 2005,11:26)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Oct. 04 2005,11:20)]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ Oct. 04 2005,11:11)]Personally I wouldn't want to cheese Delancy off too much at the moment considering the fact that, as part owners of the company that owns Roots Hall, all they have to do to cause an extremely difficult financial situation is to ask for a court order for the sale of the ground on the issue of non payment of rent.

They cant do that as it is protected by covenant.

I haven't seen the covenant, but I would imagine that the covenant deals with use of the land, rather than the ownership of the land.

If anyone (terryinthewest?) has a copy of the covenant, I should be grateful if they could PM me.

It does. But there would be no value in someone buying that land unless they had an interest in the club - as they couldn't do anything with it.

I think fbm's point was that the club owes large amounts of money to Delancey and that if Delancey decided to call in this debt, it would cause huge problems for the club.

The fact that there is a covenant restricting the use of Roots Hall is going to be of little comfort if there isn't a football club to benefit from it.

Of course.

However I was responding to the suggestion that a court could order the sale of roots hall to cover the debt - while there is still a club.

Of course Roots Hall could be sold, but no-one would buy while's still a club. If there's no longer a club, it wont be necessary to get a court order to sell the ground.

Spiff, I still can't see what your point is.

1. The football club's interest in Roots Hall is leasehold. ie the club leases Roots Hall (and Boots and Laces) from SEL Ltd (or whoever owns the freehold) at a rent reportedly in the region of £0.55m per annum.

2. Without that lease the club has no right to play at Roots Hall.

3. The club is believed not to be paying the rent due under the lease at the moment. If so it will be in breach of its obligations under the lease.

4. If a tenant is not paying its rent, the Landlord will normally have various remedies available including suing for the contractual debt (which I believe runs into millions and would probably make the club go under) and forfeiture.

5. Forfeiture extinguishes the interest: it is not dependent on there being a willing purchaser. If the lease is forfeited the club has no interest in Roots Hall and is not able to play there.

 

[Shrimperstrust]

Don't worry folks, we are taking this all on board and comments noted.

We will issue something later, however several of us are a bit tied up at work at present (yes we do have proper jobs

)

 

[Smiffy]

Quote[/b] (Shrimperstrust @ Oct. 04 2005,13:39)]Don't worry folks, we are taking this all on board and comments noted.

We will issue something later, however several of us are a bit tied up at work at present (yes we do have proper jobs  

)

Good stuff.

Will look forward to a statement later from the Trust then.

 

[Upminster Blue]

Quote[/b] (Shrimperstrust @ Oct. 04 2005,13:39)]Don't worry folks, we are taking this all on board and comments noted.

We will issue something later, however several of us are a bit tied up at work at present (yes we do have proper jobs  

)

Excellent and much appreciated.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Shrimperstrust @ Oct. 04 2005,13:39)]Don't worry folks, we are taking this all on board and comments noted.

We will issue something later, however several of us are a bit tied up at work at present (yes we do have proper jobs  

)

Well done guys, shame about the day jobs mind.

 

[Fish]

Cracking idea getting the Trust involved,I think it's the appropriate organisation to head this anyway. Would be very surprised if the Trust have the sort of money we're talking about - if they have then no wonder Supreme have been struggling

More sensibly, though, I think a useful port of call should be significant employers in the town who have an active interest in the lifestyle and quality of life of their employees (no jokes please). Companies like KeyMed and RBOS have been very supportive in general of community projects, and a new stadium for the town would certainly count as one of those, especially if it could double as a local sports club for the companies concerned, executive boxes, stadium sponsorship etc etc.

Alison Moyet could do a comeback tour starting at the new stadium. If it's big enough.

For her.

Talking of banners, how about '8 on the trot' or 'Stuff THAT up your Layer Road' or something like that.

 

[Smiffy]

With the right proposals there is no reason why we couldnt get significant financial backing from some of the local organisations.

There is some big fish out there in Southend who turn over many many millions of benjamin's...

If anyone on here work's in one of these companies...

You know what to do!...

 

[TrueBlue]

Hi-Tec is one!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:37)]The football club's interest in Roots Hall is leasehold. ie the club leases Roots Hall (and Boots and Laces) from SEL Ltd (or whoever owns the freehold) at a rent reportedly in the region of £0.55m per annum.

2. Without that lease the club has no right to play at Roots Hall. Wrong! There is a covenant that says we do, for so long as the club exists. If there is no club, the issue of where to play is irrelevant.

3. The club is believed not to be paying the rent due under the lease at the moment. If so it will be in breach of its obligations under the lease.
That is correct but in no way impacts the covenant, for so long as the club exists

5. Forfeiture extinguishes the interest: it is not dependent on there being a willing purchaser. If the lease is forfeited the club has no interest in Roots Hall and is not able to play there.
The covenant protects the club from forfeiting Roots Hall unless part of the forfeiture includes SUFC ceasing to exist. After which the issue of where to play is irrelevant. This is my point

See above

 

[Firestorm]

The Trust will not be able to do anything without the money.
They work their socks off to try and raise funds, whilst providing the coaches and a multitude of other things and , over the past year or so, the majority of posts on here have been slagging them off. Now its a case of where are they when needed. The First thing we all should be doing in putting our hands in our pockets.
How many on here are on the Quid a goal scheme, or are life members ?

Unfortunately this whole scenario is one of " money talks" and for the trust to be able to Help out Ron (should Ron and the Trust so wish) they will need capital and loads of it.

How about "buying the trust a beer" . Before every game you add the trust to your round, 2.50 to the trust, 16 games 3,000 do it and we are 120k better off by the end of the season. (A direct debit for a tenner a month (thats a Pint a week) would see each person donating 80 quid by May get 3000 fans to do that and we have nearly Quarter of a million.

I suppose , at the risk of offending anyone (and apologies if I do) it may be a case , doth Delancey to Ron and the Trust to the Fans, of "put up or shut up" , money talks !!!

 

[Firestorm]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Oct. 04 2005,13:59)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Oct. 04 2005,13:37)]The football club's interest in Roots Hall is leasehold. ie the club leases Roots Hall (and Boots and Laces) from SEL Ltd (or whoever owns the freehold) at a rent reportedly in the region of £0.55m per annum.

2. Without that lease the club has no right to play at Roots Hall. Wrong! There is a covenant that says we do, for so long as the club exists. If there is no club, the issue of where to play is irrelevant.

3. The club is believed not to be paying the rent due under the lease at the moment. If so it will be in breach of its obligations under the lease.
That is correct but in no way impacts the covenant, for so long as the club exists

5. Forfeiture extinguishes the interest: it is not dependent on there being a willing purchaser. If the lease is forfeited the club has no interest in Roots Hall and is not able to play there.
The covenant protects the club from forfeiting Roots Hall unless part of the forfeiture includes SUFC ceasing to exist. After which the issue of where to play is irrelevant. This is my point

See above

SS and HKB, I think you are talking at crossed purposes.

SS the covenant (which, as I said before, I don't think exists in the form you think) only prevents RH being developed without there being an alternative place for them to play (as it is linked to Planning permission). I don't belive it protects the club from a winding up order on the grounds of unpaid debt.

However, the unpaid rent has already been written off so the issue of the lease being withdrawn on the grounds of unpaid rent doesn't come into it either.

Basically if Delancey want to develop RH they will wind up the club first, by asking for the 5.5 m back, then they can do what they want with RH as there is no pro team in the borough.
However due to the the B&L site being designated as for Sports stadia use only in the borough plan I would hope that the council would block any planning applications for that site, which would seriously hamper the development of the remainder of the FF site. As this site is worth more money to Delancey than RH (both per acre and in the size of the site) I would hope that this would be enough to encourage continued dialogue.

 

[Kent Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ Oct. 04 2005,12:59)]I'm surprised that the Trust haven't been mentioned so far.  It strikes me that RM wants to buy Delancey out and presumably Delancy want out provided they get a reasonable deal.  After all, they're property developers who will want to realise their investment at some stage to move onto the next deal - Roots Hall is currently tying up a lot of their capital with no return (ie rental income) on their investment.  The current impasse means the RM and the club are losing out (no new ground) as is Delancy (a dead duck of an investment).

Presumably an increased offer from RM for Delancy's stake would do the trick but it appears he does not have the funds.  So, how about the Trust and/or supporters bridging the gap in return for a stake in the club?  

I have no idea what sums of money would be involved, and am not saying it would be easy, but other supporters trusts have done something similar so it must be possible.  The Trust's current fighting fund means there's some cash already available and I'm sure fans and local businesses would be willing to contribute.  I certainly would be willing to contribute for some shares in the club if it means we can get Fossets Farm.

Strikes me as a way of meeting everyone's objectives:

* new ground for the club;
* Delancy can move on to their next deal;
* the Trust and supporters get part ownership of the club; and
* RM maintains his (majority) interest in the club and Fossets Farm.

I hope this is something that the Trust is looking into urgently.

I like this idea alot and maybe has some miles, If you look at what Brentford have done then dreams can be realised.

Brentford buy Club


Bees United

 

[Stig Purple]

Saw another idea mentioned in The Sunday Telegraph the other day. Bournemouth FC are putting together a deal with Standard Life for Supporters' Pension Schemes. What this entails is supporters investing in a self-invested personal pension (Sipp).  On top of fans' contributions the scheme can borrow additional funds to purchase land and stadium. The details for SUFC would take some working out but for example, Bournemouth are looking for 40 fans to put in £50k each to raise £2m, then the scheme can borrow another £3.6m; so £5.6m is available for the purchase. The scheme then receives £360k per annum in rent from the club. Bournemouth already have 35 out of the 40 required. Brighton and Chesterfield are also considering doing something similar.

More info on Bournemouth scheme

Couple of things to note:
1) Some transfer of funds into the sipp from existing pension schemes is required
2) Transferring from a current occupational pension scheme would mean you would miss out on employer contributions.

Obviously full independent financial advice should be taken before taking up this option but for those that can afford it this sounds far more interesting an investment than some random, faceless unit trust.

 

[Upminster Blue]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ Oct. 04 2005,14:02)]The Trust will not be able to do anything without the money.
They work their socks off to try and raise funds, whilst providing the coaches and a multitude of other things and , over the past year or so, the majority of posts on here have been slagging them off. Now its a case of where are they when needed. The First thing we all should be doing in putting our hands in our pockets.
How many on here are on the Quid a goal scheme, or are life members ?

Unfortunately this whole scenario is one of " money talks" and for the trust to be able to Help out Ron (should Ron and the Trust so wish) they will need capital and loads of it.

Certainly my posts were not intended in any way shape of form to be "where are the Trust when you need them". I hope no one took them that way - I was just trying to offer some positive ideas on what is a very, very important issue.

Similarly, any past comments I've made in relation to the Trust have been from a constructive ideas point of view and to seek clarification on some issues - I hope they've been seen that way. Again, I appreciate and value what they do - no doubt a thankless and time consuming task at times.

However, the RM/Delancey issue is just the sort of reason (securing the future of the club) the Trust, I believe, was set up to try to address. It's good to know the Trust have already taken comments on this thread on board.

As for money talking, I couldn't agree more. And yes, a lot will be needed. However, what we are talking about here is a bit more fundamental than, dare I say it, raising a few quid for new physio equipment or buying a free kick wall for Tilly. Hence, I'm firmly of opinion, with a proper business plan, marketing etc, it could be possible. Other clubs have raised vast sums of money so why can't we?

In terms of raising money, I think people and businesses would be more willing to get invloved in such a big issue. When I first joined the Trust I made the conscious decision not to go OTT on donations/financial support (I still make a small donation with my subs, buy all the raffle tickets sent to me and make sure that I and all my friends/family use the shopping link on the website to get the Trust commission) but to instead be prepared to make a decent contribution when the future of the club depends on it. I would guess many people may think along similar lines (as evidenced by the sums Brentford have rasied), hence raising a large sum may not be the impossible dream it might seem.