Conservative Leadership Contest

[yogi bear up the cagire]

That's quite possibly true.It's certainly not the main issue atm,though.

And there you have it in a nutshell........one of the main differences between the Labour and Conservative parties! I'm presuming 'the main issue' is, who exactly runs the Labour Party?

Both parties in absolute turmoil, backstabbing, blood-letting, recriminations vitriol.........equally as vicious the one as the other? ...............yes, but with one important difference. The Tory Party possesses something the Labour Party doesn't..................an innate sense of self-preservation. They view themselves as the 'natural party of government' it is something inherent in their psyche, they believe in their right and duty to rule. So, whenever there looks to be turmoil in the party, there is a point (like yesterday's rapid ascention of May), when reason kicks in and overrides any internal disputes, no matter how bitter they may be. I don't think Labour has that discipline, when its war its WAR and we're about to see how far that will take them............up to the precipice?......or over it??? No, with the Labour Party the IDEA is the guiding principle, governing comes some way behind.

I do have a sneaking admiration, rather like that for the defenders of The Alamo, for the bravado of the Mirror and Labour supporters, calling for a General Election. It's GOT to be bravado, hasn't it???? The party is at the moment a hospital case, it appears to be suffering severe schizophrenia. The very fact of calling for an election only illustrates more clearly its delusions. Personally I wouldn't let the party out of its padded cell at the moment, let alone open it up to the savageries of an election campaign and the will of British electorate. There are actual signs of hope. May will possibly consider that, following all the turmoil of the referendum, the country doesn't need to be subjected to a General Election. Even if she did wish for one, It is possible she could be hampered by the five year election rule. For those who would look in absolute horror at the prospect of Tory rule for the forseeable future............this can't be a bad thing, can it???!!! :smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And there you have it in a nutshell........one of the main differences between the Labour and Conservative parties! I'm presuming 'the main issue' is, who exactly runs the Labour Party?

Both parties in absolute turmoil, backstabbing, blood-letting, recriminations vitriol.........equally as viscious the one as the other? ...............yes, but with one important difference. The Tory Party possesses something the Labour Party doesn't..................an innate sense of self-preservation. They view themselves as the 'natural party of government' it is something inherent in their psyche, they believe in their right and duty to rule. So, whenever there looks to be turmoil in the party, there is a point (like yesterday's rapid ascention of May), when reason kicks in and overrides any internal disputes, no matter how bitter they may be. I don't think Labour has that discipline, when its war its WAR and we're about to see how far that will take them............up to the precipice?......or over it??? No, with the Labour Party the IDEA is the guiding principle, governing comes some way behind.

I do have a sneaking admiration, rather like that for the defenders of The Alamo, for the bravado of the Mirror and Labour supporters, calling for a General Election. It's GOT to be bravado, hasn't it???? The party is at the moment a hospital case, it appears to be suffering severe schitzophrenia. The very fact of calling for an election only illustrates more clearly its delusions. Personally I wouldn't let the party out of its padded cell at the moment, let alone open it up to the savageries of an election campaign and the will of British electorate. There are actual signs of hope. May will possibly consider that, following all the turmoil of the referendum, the country doesn't need to be subjected to a General Election. Even if she did wish for one, It is possible she could be hampered by the five year election rule. For those who would look in absolute horror at the prospect of Tory rule for the forseeable future............this can't be a bad thing, can it???!!! :smile:

Yes.

It could well be that the Labour party is in a process of realignment atm.I certainly hope so.

In any case,the PLP have no right whatsoever to hijack the Labour party leadership-in direct opposition to the clear mandate given to JC by ordinary members and the trade unions-just nine months ago.

 

[leeblue]

Yes.

It could well be that the Labour party is in a process of realignment atm.I certainly hope so.

In any case,the PLP have no right whatsoever to hijack the Labour party leadership-in direct opposition to the clear mandate given to JC by ordinary members and the trade unions-just nine months ago.

This is what has really peed me off. Clear mandate for vorbyn to lead...PLP ignoring this. Corbyn will win again....then what will the MPs do

 

[callan]

Yes.

It could well be that the Labour party is in a process of realignment atm.I certainly hope so.

In any case,the PLP have no right whatsoever to hijack the Labour party leadership-in direct opposition to the clear mandate given to JC by ordinary members and the trade unions-just nine months ago.

You could always chuck a brick through a window if you don't like it...

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This is what has really peed me off. Clear mandate for vorbyn to lead...PLP ignoring this. Corbyn will win again....then what will the MPs do

There was a clear mandate, but things have moved on dramatically in British politics since that mandate was granted. And as inevitable as Corbyn's victory in the party election so is his defeat in the wider election. Whilst in the interim the Tories are given free reign by a completely ineffective opposition leader.

As for what is next, hopefully the MPs will split away to form a new centre/progressive party with the Lib Dems and the Tory wets.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You could always chuck a brick through a window if you don't like it...

Actually,I'm quite happy for Angela Eagle to stand against JC for the leadership.I also hope she'll be deselected as an MP after she loses.

There was a clear mandate, but things have moved on dramatically in British politics since that mandate was granted. And as inevitable as Corbyn's victory in the party election so is his defeat in the wider election. Whilst in the interim the Tories are given free reign by a completely ineffective opposition leader.

As for what is next, hopefully the MPs will split away to form a new centre/progressive party with the Lib Dems and the Tory wets.

I fully expect JC's mandate to be renewed in the forthcoming leaderhip contest.

As for your last point,those of us old enough to remember the 80's know full well what happened to the SDP and the Gang of Four.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Lets hope that both Gove & Bojo get overlooked as May puts her first cabinet together.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Actually,I'm quite happy for Angela Eagle to stand against JC for the leadership.I also hope she'll be deselected as an MP after she loses.



I fully expect JC's mandate to be renewed in the forthcoming leaderhip contest.

As for your last point,those of us old enough to remember the 80's know full well what happened to the SDP and the Gang of Four.

Indeed we do Barna. :smile: Yet, IIRC three out of the four continued to make a useful contribution to the political debate for quite a while after their break. However, this time, it is not a question of a handful of disaffected MP's, it's the great majority of the Parliamentary Labour Party. Not sure where it will all lead but it ain't good for the Labour Party nor the country, which is left with no effective opposition at the moment.

 

[RHB]

As for your last point,those of us old enough to remember the 80's know full well what happened to the SDP and the Gang of Four.

I'm old enough to remember and it happened for very similar reasons. Those reasons will almost certainly create a further breakaway group during this political period. What it's make-up will be I don't know but the non aligned voters in this country are crying out for something new or different and radical left wing socialism is not the answer.

As Opposition leader Corbyn has shown a disregard for anything or anyone who is not wholly aligned to his dogma and that will always cost him ever being a leader who can influence and change politics in this country.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Indeed we do Barna. :smile: Yet, IIRC three out of the four continued to make a useful contribution to the political debate for quite a while after their break. However, this time, it is not a question of a handful of disaffected MP's, it's the great majority of the Parliamentary Labour Party. Not sure where it will all lead but it ain't good for the Labour Party nor the country, which is left with no effective opposition at the moment.

I'm old enough to remember and it happened fosimilar reasonsr very . Those reasons will almost certainly create a further breakaway group during this political period. What it's make-up will be I don't know

but the non aligned voters in this country are crying out for something new or different and radical left wing socialism is not the answer.

As Opposition leader Corbyn has shown a disregard for anything or anyone who is not wholly aligned to his dogma and that will always cost him ever being a leader who can influence and change politics in this country.

Momentum is not the same as Militant.It's a mistake to confuse them.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Momentum is not the same as Militant.It's a mistake to confuse them.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

 

[RHB]

Momentum is not the same as Militant.It's a mistake to confuse them.

I'm not confusing anything. Corbyn's socialism is not for the majority of non-aligned voters.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm not confusing anything. Corbyn's socialism is not for the majority of non-aligned voters.

Militant was a Trotskyite,entryist organisation.Momentum is not.

JC has won all 4 by-elections (3 of them with an increased majority), under his leadership.

 

[rigsby]

Actually,I'm quite happy for Angela Eagle to stand against JC for the leadership.I also hope she'll be deselected as an MP after she loses.

Surely nothing les than 20 years in the Gulag would be the appropriate punishment for such decent towards our glorious leader.

 

[RHB]

Militant was a Trotskyite,entryist organisation.Momentum is not.

JC has won all 4 by-elections (3 of them with an increased majority), under his leadership.

We are both massively off topic here so I'm withdrawing as we will never agree on this.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm not confusing anything. Corbyn's socialism is not for the majority of non-aligned voters.

Thought Gary Younge demolished this particular argument well:-


(Corbyn's)"critics argue that the membership is unrepresentative of the country as a whole. By definition most political memberships are, but that does not mean they represent nothing. In this case the Labour party membership represents two quite crucial constituencies. First, the group that will help select the Labour MPs and leaders. And second, the group that will knock on doors and staff the phones to fight for a Labour government. Those are no small things."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/13/corbyn-critics-destroying-labour-party-members

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Thought Gary Younge demolished this particular argument well:-


(Corbyn's)"critics argue that the membership is unrepresentative of the country as a whole. By definition most political memberships are, but that does not mean they represent nothing. In this case the Labour party membership represents two quite crucial constituencies. First, the group that will help select the Labour MPs and leaders. And second, the group that will knock on doors and staff the phones to fight for a Labour government. Those are no small things."

Unlike the Labour vote at the next general election should Corbyn remain as leader.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Bojo is the new Foreign Secretary. WW3 is a step closer. :facepalm:

 

[RHB]

Bojo is the new Foreign Secretary. WW3 is a step closer. :facepalm:

That seems a very strange appointment. Possibly keeping her friends near and enemies nearer? Leaving that aside I can't fathom what qualities Boris has that fit the profile.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Bojo is the new Foreign Secretary. WW3 is a step closer. :facepalm:

Gunboat diplomacy?:winking: