Brexit negotiations thread

[GBJ]

Three years if that is relevant. I certainly do not love the bigotry, the insularity and the implicit racism that the likes of Farage, Johnson and Rees-Mogg have given a veneer of respectability to.

Please give examples of where Farage & JRM have used racist language, encouraged racist language or excused racist language.

Also, when doing so, please bare in mind your defence and excuses for Dianne Abbott’s racism, so we can compare and contrast.

I’ll wait...

Before giving credence to anything I see on the internet I like to know something about the person, to be able to judge if he is worth taking seriously. In the case of this person, apart from his self promotion there is nothing available to suggest he is of any repute or status, just the same as you or me hence my judgement. No doubt his data is accurate, it's his prognosis that is the question.

Or in other words, a theory based on accurate data, that you can’t refure, can’t actually be given credence because it goes against what you believe.

 

[dcblue]

Three years if that is relevant. I certainly do not love the bigotry, the insularity and the implicit racism that the likes of Farage, Johnson and Rees-Mogg have given a veneer of respectability to.

I would suggest that mass immigration, encouraged by Merkel, Blair and their cohorts had much more to do with any perceived increase in so called racism, than anything the three people you mention had. Remember any person who voted brexit has been referred to as a racist by certain members of the community.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Funny but the only one out of the three I’ve any time for is Vince Cable. Not sure Andy Burnham is the man but someone like Dan Jarvis in charge and Labour would be streets ahead. Instead they’re stuck with this divisive loon.

 

[rigsby]

Three years if that is relevant. I certainly do not love the bigotry, the insularity and the implicit racism that the likes of Farage, Johnson and Rees-Mogg have given a veneer of respectability to.

Italy has a long history of financial crises which predate the Euro and the EU. How do you suppose leaving the Euro wouldmake any difference?
What on earth are you talking about when you state 'the country you hate most'? Perhaps you would care to explain or justify such an assertion. The England I love is totally different from your militaristic, colonial and insular little island certainly.

Todays leftie bingo winner with these six gems is of course Exile.

Don't forget its great game to play, especially if you cant argue your point. Throw out the standard insults and virtue signal while your at it.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Another reason I voted leave...

A recent video but the causes and symptoms go back years.

Link

Bielzibubz, as an adherent of this chappie, I presume you no longer keep money in the bank (stuff it under your mattress?) You've heavily invested in precious metals; have an enormous reserve of baked beans; (can you tell the difference between Tesco and Heinz? ) Litres and litres, or should I say pints and pints of bottled water which you keep in the underground, nuclear proof, bunker you've constructed, for a rainy day.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Nobody, not even Barna, could have predicted at the time of voting, that May would end up sailing the good ship Brexit.

I mean, we get it, you don’t like Tories. But how this has gone, and how it could have gone are variables which would have been nigh-on impossible to predict.

You’re just going on instinct, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s just not a factual thing either.



Oh. I’ve been hearing for years that it was Nigel Farage’s fault.

Or was it rise of the right-wing, the xenophobics & the racists?

Or the Media. That pesky Murdoch controlling the papers & TV, infiltrating our subconscious, for his own gain.

No, I’m sure it was the oldies & Little Englanders amoung us, who were just plain anti-EU, and opposed to anything German.

It's not really to do with not liking the Tories it's to do with the magnitude of the task and the abilities needed to make that achievable. I wouldn't trust anyone to do it, but Theresa May has a long record of incompetence. With lazy arrogant David Davis heading the Brexit dept and the ridiculous promotion of Boris Johnson as Foreign Sec it was all lined up to be in the mess we are in now.
No I couldn't have known May would be PM but I knew Cameron wouldn't want to enact leaving the EU so that situation would have been majorly problematic either way.

No it's not Farage's fault, he lead a protest party who at their height were represented by 2 Tory defectors and other than that had no representation in the place where decisions are made.

Racists always exist and there is a constant battle against them but they are not responsible for this. Murdoch lies and slanders and creates division sure but he is not responsible for this.

David Cameron is responsible for calling a binary vote and only planning for one outcome, he Johnson Davis and Rabb are responsible for taking on majorly important roles and then quitting and letting the public down, and May is responsible for carrying on and on and on without the faintest idea of an end goal or how to make it happen.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Two questions:

1) Do you think Corbyn has honestly done everything he possibly could have done, in order to help the country, during his reign? Or in other words, do you think he’s played party politics at any juncture.

2) Do you think that if the other parties had better public appeal with regards to their leaders, (i.e. appeared as stronger, non-traitorous etc) Do you think this whole saga would be in the exact same situation as it is now?

1) Corbyn is not in power and not been invited by those that are to have any input in the process until a couple of weeks again when he reiterated to May what Labour policy has been all along. The only role that I'm aware of is to hold the government to account - the government have been found in contempt if Parliament and May's deal voted down by 230 votes, so the government have been held to account, but Cameron passed a law that means the government can ignore the checks and balances that would previously have toppled them.

2) I don't recognise your discription (Tory MP Ben Bradley issued an apology and paid a large out of court settlement to a food bank for making 'traitor' claims) but I think the answer to the question is yes, if Labour, LibDems, UKIP, whoever were in government they have approached negotiations with the EU very differently and pressumably focused on negotiating with the EU rather than within their own cabinet and then having that vetoed by the DUP.

Let's be honest here, if May hadn't called a General Election in 2017 this would all be done and dusted. For any Leavers that moment when Theresa May thought she could fight an election with no policies, no conviction and no personality - that was the moment it all ran out of control.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It’s worth pointing out that the growth of global economy is also down on previous forecasts.

The America-China Trade War, Italy in recession, interest rates on the rise, are all contributing factors.

Whilst Brexit can be classed as a factor, it can’t be classed as the factor.

Don’t let your opinion of Brexit, shroud the facts.

Andrew Neil had this to say:

The worst part of the poor Q4 growth figures is that biz investment fell by 3.7% — the steepest fall since 2010 and follows previous 2018 falls. In my judgment there can be no question prolonged and continuing uncertainty of Brexit process hitting private investment (bigly).

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Depends on how long you’ve been an exile for.

The England you love, may not be the same England that we live in.

I think the issue is when people are accused of hating England, presumably just an attempt to rile them.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Funny but the only one out of the three I’ve any time for is Vince Cable. Not sure Andy Burnham is the man but someone like Dan Jarvis in charge and Labour would be streets ahead. Instead they’re stuck with this divisive loon.

What is it about Dan Jarvis that makes you want him as PM?

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

What is it about Dan Jarvis that makes you want him as PM?

One word, moderate.
Would appeal to the people you need to convince to vote Labour, the middle ground which no one appears to want to occupy at the moment.
Yes you have biggest membership in Europe blah blah blah but it won’t get Corbyn into number 10.
He’s just not trusted. Folk don’t want far left or right, they want middle ground politics. Don’t believe me?
Michael Foot - Labour nowhere
Kinnock - getting there but ultimately nowhere
Smith - now you’re starting to be taken seriously
Tony Blair? Appeals to wide population and guess what???
YOU WIN!!!

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

One word, moderate.
Would appeal to the people you need to convince to vote Labour, the middle ground which no one appears to want to occupy at the moment.
Yes you have biggest membership in Europe blah blah blah but it won’t get Corbyn into number 10.
He’s just not trusted. Folk don’t want far left or right, they want middle ground politics. Don’t believe me?
Michael Foot - Labour nowhere
Kinnock - getting there but ultimately nowhere
Smith - now you’re starting to be taken seriously
Tony Blair? Appeals to wide population and guess what???
YOU WIN!!!

I could list Blairs pros and cons but it's all old news, there are various policies that we are still paying for now in terms of the set up / payment of public services.
Miliband was more centre than Corbyn and his vote was a lot less than Corbyn's.
The centre ground argument would have more weight if the LibDems had secured more than 8% of the vote in 2017.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

One word, moderate.
Would appeal to the people you need to convince to vote Labour, the middle ground which no one appears to want to occupy at the moment.
Yes you have biggest membership in Europe blah blah blah but it won’t get Corbyn into number 10.
He’s just not trusted. Folk don’t want far left or right, they want middle ground politics. Don’t believe me?
Michael Foot - Labour nowhere
Kinnock - getting there but ultimately nowhere
Smith - now you’re starting to be taken seriously
Tony Blair? Appeals to wide population and guess what???
YOU WIN!!!

I just had to Google Dan Jarvis as I'd forgotten where he had disappeared to!
I hear about the London mayor and Manchester mayor often, not sure I've heard anything about the Sheffield mayor since election (only a year ago admittedly) - anyone based in Yorkshire who can say if he is keeping busy?

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

LibDems were led by a complete **** into that election, the underside of my arse has more personality. Long long way to go but Cable will get them there.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

The bit starred out isn’t as terrible as you might think. Sorry for breaking rules but it certainly wasn’t the C or F word.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

LibDems were led by a complete **** into that election, the underside of my arse has more personality. Long long way to go but Cable will get them there.

Although he has already announced he will quit as leader soon.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I could list Blairs pros and cons but it's all old news, there are various policies that we are still paying for now in terms of the set up / payment of public services.
Miliband was more centre than Corbyn and his vote was a lot less than Corbyn's.
The centre ground argument would have more weight if the LibDems had secured more than 8% of the vote in 2017.

I'm afraid Labour screwed it up again............you got the wrong brother as leader.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm afraid Labour screwed it up again............you got the wrong brother as leader.

David ran away to a £600k charity job in another country, Ed is still an MP and speaks up for what he believes in and......he is proper bantz on Twitter!

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

David ran away to a £600k charity job in another country, Ed is still an MP and speaks up for what he believes in and......he is proper bantz on Twitter!

Good for him! You seem to say that with a degree of disdain and disapproval? IIRC he only took that job after an (unpleasant?) internecine fight for the leadership.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Good for him! You seem to say that with a degree of disdain and disapproval? IIRC he only took that job after an (unpleasant?) internecine fight for the leadership.

What was unpleasant about it?
Plenty of people suggest David coming back and 'saving' the Labour Party often without having anything to back up the suggestion. In my mind a party has one leader, if it turns out not be you and your reaction is to quit as an MP and leave British politics then that is a good indication that you weren't right for the job.

Similarly with people who want Boris Johnson to be next Tory leader - he quit the leadership race last time round and quit as Foreign Secretary mid Brexit negotiations - he is too flighty. We need politicians who don't run.