Brexit negotiations thread

[Bielzibubz]

I rest my case m'lud.

Completely ignore recent European history and the disgraceful and illegal (yes illegal, check their very own charter) actions the EU.

And again, medium to long term you don't know we'd 'definitely' worse off. Short term pain for long term gain.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I rest my case m'lud.

Completely ignore recent European history and the disgraceful and illegal (yes illegal, check their very own charter) actions the EU.

And again, medium to long term you don't know we'd 'definitely' worse off. Short term pain for long term gain.

Obviously nor do you.What I do know is that Keynes said he preferred short term and medium term solutions "since in the long term we're all dead."

 

[Gremlin]

Obviously nor do you.What I do know is that Keynes said he preferred short term and medium term solutions "since in the long term we're all dead."

"Screw the grandchildren, I'm in this for myself!"

 

[dcblue]

The brexit negotiation failure is the fault of the whole of parliament, not just the Tory government. How many times does it have to be said that 80 odd % of mp's are remainers and they have all been working overtime to thwart brexit. They never expected to lose the referendum and they are making sure we don't leave. Add the preference of the civil service for remain and anyone should be able to see that brexit had no real chance despite the wishes of the voters. Our political class are now the most incompetent we have ever had and I reckon that is because they no longer have any real power over the policies of this country.
The future looks very bleak as the EU will exert more and more power over us and the influence of voting will become even less than now ( is that even possible?).
As for the so called status quo, which remainers like to mention, that is pie in the sky as the Lisbon treaty comes into force.

 

[rigsby]

Obviously nor do you.What I do know is that Keynes said he preferred short term and medium term solutions "since in the long term we're all dead."

Pull the ladder up, Tangled is aboard...….

"What about the 50% of young people who don't have a job in Spain?"...…
"Let them eat cake and read Keynes"

 

[Ricky Otto]

The brexit negotiation failure is the fault of the whole of parliament, not just the Tory government. How many times does it have to be said that 80 odd % of mp's are remainers and they have all been working overtime to thwart brexit. They never expected to lose the referendum and they are making sure we don't leave. Add the preference of the civil service for remain and anyone should be able to see that brexit had no real chance despite the wishes of the voters. Our political class are now the most incompetent we have ever had and I reckon that is because they no longer have any real power over the policies of this country.
The future looks very bleak as the EU will exert more and more power over us and the influence of voting will become even less than now ( is that even possible?).
As for the so called status quo, which remainers like to mention, that is pie in the sky as the Lisbon treaty comes into force.

I may have misunderstood but wasn't the Lisbon treaty signed in 2007 and came into force in 2009? I'm no expert on it and may have missed a component not yet in force? But from what I can see this has been in force for 10 years so that wouldn't affect the remainers status quo you speak of.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

"Screw the grandchildren, I'm in this for myself!"

which is an accusation often aimed at older Leave voters.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Christ I've read some down daft replies on this thread but ladies and gentlemen, i think we have a winner.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The brexit negotiation failure is the fault of the whole of parliament, not just the Tory government. How many times does it have to be said that 80 odd % of mp's are remainers and they have all been working overtime to thwart brexit. They never expected to lose the referendum and they are making sure we don't leave. Add the preference of the civil service for remain and anyone should be able to see that brexit had no real chance despite the wishes of the voters. Our political class are now the most incompetent we have ever had and I reckon that is because they no longer have any real power over the policies of this country.
The future looks very bleak as the EU will exert more and more power over us and the influence of voting will become even less than now ( is that even possible?).
As for the so called status quo, which remainers like to mention, that is pie in the sky as the Lisbon treaty comes into force.

Just seen Nicky Morgan and Lisa Nandy on politics live.They seemed to be getting on fine.LN said she thought between 40/60 Labour MP's could be persuaded to back May's Brexit plan if it were tweaked.NM said she thought Mrs May would be very interested.She certainly was.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47196387

I defy anyone to suggest that this latest news about the UK economy is not Brexit related.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The brexit negotiation failure is the fault of the whole of parliament, not just the Tory government. How many times does it have to be said that 80 odd % of mp's are remainers and they have all been working overtime to thwart brexit. They never expected to lose the referendum and they are making sure we don't leave. Add the preference of the civil service for remain and anyone should be able to see that brexit had no real chance despite the wishes of the voters. Our political class are now the most incompetent we have ever had and I reckon that is because they no longer have any real power over the policies of this country.
The future looks very bleak as the EU will exert more and more power over us and the influence of voting will become even less than now ( is that even possible?).
As for the so called status quo, which remainers like to mention, that is pie in the sky as the Lisbon treaty comes into force.

Tories called the referendum.

Tories lied through the campaign.

Tories had no plans for how to leave.

Tory Prime Minister who called the referendum quit.

Tories went to court, called an election 3 years early, argued among themselves, anything and everything they could think of to distract them from getting in with the job in hand.

Tory Brexit secretary quit then the Foreign Secretary quit then the new Brexit secretary quit.

Tories were the first party ever to be found in contempt of Parliament and their Brexit deal was the biggest ever governmental defeat in Parliament.

Tory Leavers Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are now on different sides of the 'what Brexit means' debate.

Tory PM, with a little over a month to go is still trying to get her deal though Parliament despite the 230 vote loss.

If Labour or LibDems or UKIP or anyone else had been in charge of this it would have been done differently.

Brexit outcome on 29th March whether it is a success or a failure is 100% down to the Tories.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Just seen Nicky Morgan and Lisa Nandy on politics live.They seemed to be getting on fine.LN said she thought between 40/60 Labour MP's could be persuaded to back May's Brexit plan if it were tweaked.NM said she thought Mrs May would be very interested.She certainly was.

what changes to May's deal is Nandy expecting? As it stands EU are not budging and May doesn't seem to be embracing anyone else's input.

 

[Bielzibubz]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47196387

I defy anyone to suggest that this latest news about the UK economy is not Brexit uncertainty related.

Ohhhh no. The economy didn't grow as fast as some predicted.

That's it, I'm emigrating. I don't think I can cope with food rationing, scurvy and seeing kids suffering from malnutrition playing in the gutter.

Still, could be worse. We could be in recession!

PS, I've edited your original for a little bit of objective clarity ;)

 

[Bielzibubz]

Tories called the referendum.

Tories lied through the campaign.

Tories had no plans for how to leave.

Tory Prime Minister who called the referendum quit.

Tories went to court, called an election 3 years early, argued among themselves, anything and everything they could think of to distract them from getting in with the job in hand.

Tory Brexit secretary quit then the Foreign Secretary quit then the new Brexit secretary quit.

Tories were the first party ever to be found in contempt of Parliament and their Brexit deal was the biggest ever governmental defeat in Parliament.

Tory Leavers Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are now on different sides of the 'what Brexit means' debate.

Tory PM, with a little over a month to go is still trying to get her deal though Parliament despite the 230 vote loss.

If Labour or LibDems or UKIP or anyone else had been in charge of this it would have been done differently.

Brexit outcome on 29th March whether it is a success or a failure is 100% down to the Tories.

Constantly and incessantly whining on and on and on about this Tory government and it's failings is not getting you very far. In fact it's detracting from your otherwise respected ability to debate an issue with some sort of common sense on here. You're angry, we get it but please don't let that anger get the better of your fingers.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Tories called the referendum.

Tories lied through the campaign.

Tories had no plans for how to leave.

Tory Prime Minister who called the referendum quit.

Tories went to court, called an election 3 years early, argued among themselves, anything and everything they could think of to distract them from getting in with the job in hand.

Tory Brexit secretary quit then the Foreign Secretary quit then the new Brexit secretary quit.

Tories were the first party ever to be found in contempt of Parliament and their Brexit deal was the biggest ever governmental defeat in Parliament.

Tory Leavers Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are now on different sides of the 'what Brexit means' debate.

Tory PM, with a little over a month to go is still trying to get her deal though Parliament despite the 230 vote loss.

If Labour or LibDems or UKIP or anyone else had been in charge of this it would have been done differently.

Brexit outcome on 29th March whether it is a success or a failure is 100% down to the Tories.

And yet she's still there and Corbyn isn't. That says it all.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

And yet she's still there and Corbyn isn't. That says it all.

Cameron brought in a fixed term law, makes it almost impossible to oust a government unless its own MPs are willing to do that. Protocol / common decency dictates they would dissolve Parliament after being found in contempt and after a 230 vote defeat but protocol / common decency doesn't seem to fit the May government agenda.

 

[rigsby]

No wonder the country is divided. Someone posts.....I defy and in less than 20minutes he is defied.

If we had voted by 52% to remain, I wonder if this thread would have reached 5,600 posts
Would politicians and those that should never be defied be calling for a peoples vote?
Or how about a soft Remain because the vote was very narrow

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Constantly and incessantly whining on and on and on about this Tory government and it's failings is not getting you very far. In fact it's detracting from your otherwise respected ability to debate an issue with some sort of common sense on here. You're angry, we get it but please don't let that anger get the better of your fingers.

if someone states 'the Brexit **** up is the fault of all politicians' then obviously I will state why I don't believe that to be the case.

You say it's whining but is anything in my post inaccurate?

 

[Ricky Otto]

To be fair it is quite obvious to most remainers that the stagnation in growth is down to uncertainty. It certainly can't conclusively prove anything to fit any agenda, although it won't stop some trying.

I the event of a no deal brexit at the end of march I'd fully expect a disastrous report for Q4 2019.

 

[slapheadsteve]

As a regular poster on Shrimperzone. I enjoy reading this Brexit Forum.
It does remind me of children arguing.
People living abroad with more opnion's than us who have stayed. It makes me smile.!!
I voted remain and would again. (probably the only one in Rochford). I do think people did not realise what they were voting for. But we voted out, so that's the people choice.!!

I also have voted Lib Dem for 30 years. BUT I totally disagree that we should have a second vote. If another is held what does that say for democracy. People would lose faith in ever voting again. We just need to get on with this. A no deal would also be a disaster for the U.K.

My views on the party's. Labour, There leader wont even tell us what or how we should leave. Does he agree on a second vote. Now if we had someone like Andy Burnham in charge. I would seriously consider switching to Labour. Mrs May. I admire her stubborn ways, especially as it was Cameron who got her into this. The better of two evils.!!
Lib Dem's just need a decent leader, Vince good but too old. One before a disaster!!
Anyway I will watch this again not post, but it is a enjoyable read.