Brexit negotiations thread

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Looks as though high drama could be developing tonight............and I don't mean our game with Saints! Cabinet meeting over running (not proving just a rubber stamp........never was going to be!) by hours. Heightened talk of no confidence vote against May. Raab's planned rush to Brussels to hold joint press conference with Barnier............CANCELLED. Historic times????

 

[AB_Shrimper]

Hearing May might have a vote of no confidence coming her way.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The Cabinet has voted in favour of the deal Let's see what the UK parliament says now.

 

[MK Shrimper]

The Cabinet has voted in favour of the deal Let's see what the UK parliament says now.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

As our fishing expert could Rigsby give us some feedback on May's new fishing deal and if we should be for or against it?

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Oh dear. After saying many times we wouldn't be in the EU customs union and bound by EU laws, Theresa May has lied, or given in to the EU.


Rees-Mogg writes to all Conservative MPs giving four reasons why deal should be turned down
Jacob Rees-Mogg, chair of the European Research Group, which represents Tory MPs pushing for a harder Brexit, must be a speed reader. He has just released the text of a letter he is sending to all Conservative MPs urging them to reject the draft Brexit deal. He gives four reasons why.
First, he says it will involve giving the EU £39bn and getting “little or nothing in return”.
Second, he says the agreement would treat Northern Ireland differently from the rest of the UK.
Third, he says it would lock the UK into an EU customs union and EU laws.
And, fourth he says that keeping the UK bound by the rules of the customs union would contradict what was in the 2017 Conservative manifesto and that this would be “profoundly undemocratic”.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Oh dear. After saying many times we wouldn't be in the EU customs union and bound by EU laws, Theresa May has lied, or given in to the EU.


Remember it is a transition arrangement and not a permanent one.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Remember it is a transition arrangement and not a permanent one.

As Mogg said tonight, a transition or temporary arrangement can go on for years. He said the famous example is income tax. So he said you can't trust it.

 

[dcblue]

Rabb just resigned. Still hope May might be deposed.

 

[rigsby]

I hope you don't mind me giving an answer. I am not happy with such a deal, but then it was negotiated by a remain pm, remain cabinet and remain civil service. They have tried to remain but thought they would appease leavers by just saying we are leaving on 29th March.
The only happy campers are in Brussels and that sums up the complete betrayal by our whole parliament.
Civil unrest will be the result.

Only hope is, May resigns at 5pm during her statement, but I won't hold my breath.

Thanks dcblue. I would have liked to answer but the instruction was I could only say Yes or No.

Some are more equall than others on here especially if it comes to insults. So as one of the naive and easily fooled it’s only right that we should have less of a say....this whole mess is only because we had been allowed a vote in the first place

 

[Member]

 

[MK Shrimper]

3 Cabinet members resigned. More to follow? #omnishambles

 

[MK Shrimper]

I love the fact that Raab resigned because he didn't like his own deal.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Remember it is a transition arrangement and not a permanent one.

As Mogg said tonight, a transition or temporary arrangement can go on for years. He said the famous example is income tax. So he said you can't trust it.

The transition period is due to end in Dec 2020.It could be extended by mutual consent but of course that's all rather academic if it isn't approved by the UK parliament (or other EU countries), as is looking increasingly likely with today's cabinet resignations.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Raab's resignation is an absolute bombshell. It was actually creeping into my thoughts, following May's statement last night that, against all odds, she may even carry this through parliament. I could see the criticisms fading away in the harsh reality of the alternative to refusing the deal...............not any more.
Ironically, the package is so bad that Labour Brexiters will find it easier to vote against it, destroying the Tories hope that they would pick up support from the opposition benches. There certainly appear largely sufficient numbers of Tory Brexiters (now emboldened by Raab's action), to vote against the deal, not matter what the consequences.
We could really be heading for uncharted waters here, with everything plunged into chaos. There appear to three possibilities.
Firstly, Corbyn's dream of a General Election. Turkey's don't generally vote for Christmas.............but if there was a successful vote of no confidence, could it happen??? Honestly I don't see this healing a deeply divided nation and we could yet again end up with an indecisive result. Starmer had some problems this morning providing reasons to vote against the deal, when it was agreeing to the Customs union they supported.
Secondly, there are those who believe that deposing May will be the solution.........it won't. Their logic must be that her replacement would be an arch Brexiter who would push for and achieve a hard Brexit. Surely that's a delusion? Whereas there there may be a roughly equal division between Remainers and Brexiters in parliament, those favouring a 'hard Brexit' don't amount to much more than a hundred. There's surely no way the rest would sit back and let it happen.
Thirdly, in my view the most likely, we'll be obliged to go back to the country with another referendum, with the stark choices confronting us it must be the people who decide. This morning the odds of another referendum must have shortened considerably.
I don't believe for a minute, this deal is what people voted for back in 2016........if it is, then it should be confirmed. This deal clearly rubbishes all that May has always claimed. It's NOT a good deal, it's just the best deal it was possible to get. Having seen the way the exit arrangement has turned out no one should have any illusions about our final trade deal. Quite simply, if we remain outside the single market and customs union, it won't be good and it won't be frictionless...............no matter what May will claim to the contrary.
The mess has just got a bloody damn sight messier.

 

[Member]

Tories eating each other and ****ting themselves on purpose.

Incredible scenes

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

I'm so glad the Work and Pensions minister Esther McVey has resigned. I thought she was insensitive and out of touch saying the homeless should get a job. Most homeless have drug, alcohol, mental illness, or/and health issues, so not easy to just go and get a job.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I'm so glad the Work and Pensions minister Esther McVey has resigned. I thought she was insensitive and out of touch saying the homeless should get a job. Most homeless have drug, alcohol or mental illness issues, so not easy to just go and get a job.

Well put.

I often think to be a Tory you need to have any empathy vacuumed out of your soul at birth.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Raab's resignation is an absolute bombshell. It was actually creeping into my thoughts, following May's statement last night that, against all odds, she may even carry this through parliament. I could see the criticisms fading away in the harsh reality of the alternative to refusing the deal...............not any more.
Ironically, the package is so bad that Labour Brexiters will find it easier to vote against it, destroying the Tories hope that they would pick up support from the opposition benches. There certainly appear largely sufficient numbers of Tory Brexiters (now emboldened by Raab's action), to vote against the deal, not matter what the consequences.
We could really be heading for uncharted waters here, with everything plunged into chaos. There appear to three possibilities.
Firstly, Corbyn's dream of a General Election. Turkey's don't generally vote for Christmas.............but if there was a successful vote of no confidence, could it happen??? Honestly I don't see this healing a deeply divided nation and we could yet again end up with an indecisive result. Starmer had some problems this morning providing reasons to vote against the deal, when it was agreeing to the Customs union they supported.
Secondly, there are those who believe that deposing May will be the solution.........it won't. Their logic must be that her replacement would be an arch Brexiter who would push for and achieve a hard Brexit. Surely that's a delusion? Whereas there there may be a roughly equal division between Remainers and Brexiters in parliament, those favouring a 'hard Brexit' don't amount to much more than a hundred. There's surely no way the rest would sit back and let it happen.
Thirdly, in my view the most likely, we'll be obliged to go back to the country with another referendum, with the stark choices confronting us it must be the people who decide. This morning the odds of another referendum must have shortened considerably.
I don't believe for a minute, this deal is what people voted for back in 2016........if it is, then it should be confirmed. This deal clearly rubbishes all that May has always claimed. It's NOT a good deal, it's just the best deal it was possible to get. Having seen the way the exit arrangement has turned out no one should have any illusions about our final trade deal. Quite simply, if we remain outside the single market and customs union, it won't be good and it won't be frictionless...............no matter what May will claim to the contrary.
The mess has just got a bloody damn sight messier.

Skybet: Another EU referendum before 2020

No 4/7
Yes 5/4

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Skybet: Another EU referendum before 2020

No 4/7
Yes 5/4

Interesting but do you know whether the odds have shortened following this morning's resignations?