Bernie Friend and Bad News

[McNasty]

Answering a question with another question- you could be an MP Ken!:smile:

My suggestion - why don't we come together as a group (Trust,Zone,TZ etc) and work together? All it seems to me these days is bitching amongst each other with everyone working to their own agenda and trying to point score in some kind of weird popularity contest. I thought we all want the same thing - the very best for our club and the fans that support it?

I don't have any answers to the way forward but I'm a little sick of how things are amongst the fan base recently - half the reason I started coming to Southend way back when was because of the way I was welcomed into the community of Southend fans despite having no real connection to the club or area and along the way I've met some great people who I'm proud to call my friends now. To be honest it's that that kept me coming back at times (certainly not some of the football we've endured at times). And I'll be honest if it carries on this way for much longer I'm not sure I will be as regular an attendee. Something needs to happen so we can be 'United' again - and bitching amongst the different groups is not the answer.

I agree we should all work together but that will never happen as different people and groups have different agendas.

There are people who refuse to visit the Zone, others who don't join the Trust for one reason or another and some people who only want to turn up and watch the team and join nothing. There will always be personality clashes --- it's the way of the world.

 

[jamesmut2000]

I agree we should all work together but that will never happen as different people and groups have different agendas.

Let's all give up and go home then. Will the last person out remember to turn the lights off. :sad:

 

[Smiffy]

Let's all give up and go home then. Will the last person out remember to turn the lights off. :sad:

That will be Ron at this rate...

If he has paid the electricity bill.

 

[McNasty]

Let's all give up and go home then. Will the last person out remember to turn the lights off. :sad:

You quoted the line about different agendas which I agreed with and you want to turn out the lights.

The Zone is just a platform for opinions and no agenda whatsoever. TZ just provides coaches for travel and sponsors a team of players and the Trust provides money to the club , travel away games and they help not hinder with the objective of getting a seat on the board.

3 totally different ideals.

Do you not have any thoughts on any solutions ?

 

[jamesmut2000]

I don't want to turn the lights out. You're right the things above that you listed are all different agendas but they have one thing in common - they're all run and put together by fans of this club. And all of those agendas are useless without a club to provide them for. The strongest thing we have is the people behind all of the above and if we can't find a way to come together as a group and fight for our club then we might as well turn the lights out. Now I know that may be an idealistic approach and I agree with your earlier comments that you'll never get 100% agreement across the board (wouldn't that be dull if we all agreed!:smile:) but as it stands things will not improve.

Maybe I'm over dramatising things and things aren't all that bad.

 

[McNasty]

The different groups of the Zone, the Trust , TBV, the Exiles are all members of the Fan's Forum. The Trust objected to the TravelZone joining the Forum so that stops your idea of all working together. I'm afraid.

 

[jamesmut2000]

Well that's shocking if that's the case. But then again can't say I'm surprised.

As you've bought up the fans forum I have a question about it. I may be being a bit stupid but I don't get it? I assumed that a fans forum would include a random selection of ever changing fans that are invited to meet with the above and SK to discuss different ideas and feedback good/bad things about the club? It appears to me that that's not the case? Maybe I've just not understood it properly. Has the Fans Forum as it stands met as a group already? If so was there a report of its meetings to date? (Not a dig at you personally Ken just a question that you may have the answer to!)

 

[Jam_Man]

TBH Kay I do and always have found it bizarre that there is not more communication on here between The Trust and the fans and even more bizarre why the Chairman of The Trust feels he does not have to join these forums, as our membership far out number the membership of The Trust.

I would of thought he would want to encompass these forums arms outstretched and engage with the fan base.

At the beginning of the season when it was clear our financial woes had returned I raised a thread to discuss/ask what the actual point of the Trust was. At times when the clubs future was in question they were silent when I expected them to be at the forefront trying to get answers and information.

Following that discussion I came to the conclusion that the Trust are handcuffed by their own desire to have a seat on the board and at a time when we wanted a voice and for someone to be asking big questions they were silent.

The trusts response at the time was that we aren't entitled to know anything so that was that. That in itself shocked me that the fans representation were willing to accept that so easily.

They do a lot of good work and the club do benefit from the fund raising etc that they do but they aren't in anyway a safeguard in the event of everything going pear shaped (with millions of debts their finances are a drop in the ocean) and neither are they in anyway an organisation that will be protesting or applying any pressure. (Not that would achieve a lot in itself).

I would have hoped the Trust would be pro-actively engaging with all supporters (not just its members) in difficult times. As it stands all season we have known we are struggling but we have no voice, no feedback and just have to cross our fingers and hope all will work out.

Maybe I'm being unfair and expect too much from them and what Id expect is not their actual purpose.

I have been out of the loop a couple of weeks and have no idea the extent of what Bernie refers to, it may just be the 'normal operational' issues we have got accustomed to and Wembley may solve a lot of problems. Sadly without anyone asking questions we have no chance of knowing.

 

[The Blue Stig]

I cant see us all ever singing of the same sheet to many opinions ( most of em *****)

 

[McNasty]

Well that's shocking if that's the case. But then again can't say I'm surprised.

As you've bought up the fans forum I have a question about it. I may be being a bit stupid but I don't get it? I assumed that a fans forum would include a random selection of ever changing fans that are invited to meet with the above and SK to discuss different ideas and feedback good/bad things about the club? It appears to me that that's not the case? Maybe I've just not understood it properly. Has the Fans Forum as it stands met as a group already? If so was there a report of its meetings to date? (Not a dig at you personally Ken just a question that you may have the answer to!)

The Fans Forum was an idea by the new CEO to engage with representatives of established fans groups to try and improve things for the fans and to promote SUFC to the general public for the benefit of the club we love.

We have had several meetings to discuss issues raised by fans (If you remember I started a thread for fan's idea to raise queries that were put to the CEO and Chairman) and as a result there are now better beer facilities in the West and hopefully better TV reception and programming round the ground.

There was a plan to have an Open forum exactly as you stated for fans to attend to question us but this was cancelled due to the Club being seriously busy due to next Sunday.

The Trust Chairman suggested any reports are okayed by the Club prior to public release as per their Liaison Meetings. Personally I am against this as I feel things stated at the meeting , with the exception of the very rare confidential answers given, should be freely available not for censorship but that seems to be where the Trust Chairman and I differ.

 

[The Blue Stig]

Could the laundry be to dirty for the public ?

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

There is such a great need for another supporters club for the supporters and not a secert type club.
I know you said that you are not up for the fight Ken but others on the zone must be.
Southend United need a decent supporters club and a decent junior supportes club,the zone(Wino) have already given them a decent fan friendly travel service but now the fans need a decent honest open voice willing to fight and prod the hornets nest of lies and spin.
The trust not joining in debates on the zone is a joke and not a funny one at that,trust out shrimperzone independant supporters club in.

 

[Earls Hall Blue]

There is such a great need for another supporters club for the supporters and not a secert type club.
I know you said that you are not up for the fight Ken but others on the zone must be.
Southend United need a decent supporters club and a decent junior supportes club,the zone(Wino) have already given them a decent fan friendly travel service but now the fans need a decent honest open voice willing to fight and prod the hornets nest of lies and spin.
The trust not joining in debates on the zone is a joke and not a funny one at that,trust out shrimperzone independant supporters club in.

Is the trust really a secret club. I thought they held AGM's, published accounts & were generally contactable through their website, which is exactly where you would expect them to be contactable. Because committee members choose not to debate via this website doesn't necessarily mean they are keeping anything to themselves, they may just feel it's not the appropriate medium to discuss possible sensitive issue's. Sometimes it's best to keep speculative conversations private until there is something concrete, I think all parties know this..:winking:

Where are all the call's for another supporters club, I can't say I've read thread after thread calling for one on here & I haven't heard of call for it elsewhere, but if that need does exist & with such a passionate post and obvious dislike for the Trust, it looks like your the man to set that on it's way..:thumbsup:

Your post reads to me that you believe only SZ are capable of providing decent travel, a decent supporters club, a decent juniors club, but what do you really base that on? It seem's to me you have a complete dislike of all things Trust and yet they are a small group of people trying to do what they believe is the right thing, and all at the expense of their own free time too. Similar to the powers that be here..:winking:

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

Is the trust really a secret club. I thought they held AGM's, published accounts & were generally contactable through their website, which is exactly where you would expect them to be contactable. Because committee members choose not to debate via this website doesn't necessarily mean they are keeping anything to themselves, they may just feel it's not the appropriate medium to discuss possible sensitive issue's. Sometimes it's best to keep speculative conversations private until there is something concrete, I think all parties know this..:winking:

Where are all the call's for another supporters club, I can't say I've read thread after thread calling for one on here & I haven't heard of call for it elsewhere, but if that need does exist & with such a passionate post and obvious dislike for the Trust, it looks like your the man to set that on it's way..:thumbsup:

Your post reads to me that you believe only SZ are capable of providing decent travel, a decent supporters club, a decent juniors club, but what do you really base that on? It seem's to me you have a complete dislike of all things Trust and yet they are a small group of people trying to do what they believe is the right thing, and all at the expense of their own free time too. Similar to the powers that be here..:winking:

All good points Pitsea and well put.
When i started the inderpendant supporters club(before it became the trust) it was to repersent all supporters members or not and to me in my humble opinion a lot of things seem to be we cant tell you unless you are a member.
The zone is the biggest fan forum for the shrimpers and they can not come on the biggest forum to answer questions.
In the Wembley forum i asked a question about the junior blues and after a few days OBL answered my question but it seems Pauly fitz cant wont join the zone,he is supposed to repersent all Southend fans not just the ones he chooses too.
The trust dont want travelzone in on the fans forum,strange.
The need for another supporters club is there,lots of clubs have two or more mostly working for the good of the club and fans,the trust in my opinion as far as i know do a good job,could it be better well i think so.
I have respect for anyone that puts them self forward to work for others and when i started the SUISC the man mountain that is John Adams said to me that if you put your head above the parapit some one will shoot at it and that is very true.

The call for an inderpent supporters club has come three times from me because i dont believe the trust is up to the job of fighting Ron head on.
If i lived in or near Southend then i would myself start another supporters club but i live in sunny France so i wont.

Yes i think the zone is in a great place to do this,the core of the zone are doing a great job and all you need are people with heart for the job at hand because its our club not his.
Sorry for the bad spelling but the wifes busy at the mo.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Frankly,I'm not too sure what all the current bickering is actually about, (unless it really concerns the non-allocation of Wemblely tickets to SZ).

I've aired my own concerns regarding the Trust's capacity as a supporters club to bail out SUFC-should the need arise-in the past.However, (to paraphrase LBJ), I'd sooner be inside the tent ****ing out, than outside ****ing in.

At the same time,I, for one,fully understand Paul Fitz's right (and wish) not to become a member of SZ and get involved with "debates" on SZ.He's well aware that there are more than a few wind up merchants on here.

I've never met him (so have no personal axe to grind) but can only say that, in private emails, he comes across as a very helpful and decent bloke.

 

[Earls Hall Blue]

All good points Pitsea and well put.
When i started the inderpendant supporters club(before it became the trust) it was to repersent all supporters members or not and to me in my humble opinion a lot of things seem to be we cant tell you unless you are a member.
The zone is the biggest fan forum for the shrimpers and they can not come on the biggest forum to answer questions.
In the Wembley forum i asked a question about the junior blues and after a few days OBL answered my question but it seems Pauly fitz cant wont join the zone,he is supposed to repersent all Southend fans not just the ones he chooses too.
The trust dont want travelzone in on the fans forum,strange.
The need for another supporters club is there,lots of clubs have two or more mostly working for the good of the club and fans,the trust in my opinion as far as i know do a good job,could it be better well i think so.
I have respect for anyone that puts them self forward to work for others and when i started the SUISC the man mountain that is John Adams said to me that if you put your head above the parapit some one will shoot at it and that is very true.

The call for an inderpent supporters club has come three times from me because i dont believe the trust is up to the job of fighting Ron head on.
If i lived in or near Southend then i would myself start another supporters club but i live in sunny France so i wont.

Yes i think the zone is in a great place to do this,the core of the zone are doing a great job and all you need are people with heart for the job at hand because its our club not his.
Sorry for the bad spelling but the wifes busy at the mo.

Do Trust member's know more than non-members though? The minutes of the monthly meetings seem to me to be the only thing that members can see over non-members. How many threads have you read on this very forum hinting towards something but not actually putting any meat on the bones to the main membership, its much the same thing in my opinion.

I don't for one minute see why the Trust and in particular individual committee members, should have to answer questions on SZ. They have their own website where questions can be put, they have a presence in The Shrimpers Bar on matchday's & they have committee members on their & TZ's coaches. As I said before & you will appreciate, there's only so much of your free time that's available. If that means as has been stated here that it renders this forum nothing but a fundraiser for the Trust, is that such a bad thing? Those fund's will end up benefiting the club in one way or another & that's what we all want, agenda's aside.

I read OBL's comments in the Wembley forum and if they are working on something that isnt yet finalised then it is hard to comment, perhaps we should leave Ron to do that. Again though I dont see why Paul Fitz has to be a member here, he can carry out his responsibilities as Trust chairman without membership of SZ if that's what he chooses.

I can't comment on the Trust's objections to TZ being on the fan's forum other than maybe they see TZ as an extension of SZ which is represented and not unique enough in say the way TBV is. I'm quite certain though it's nothing to do with competition. It seem's to me at the moment that away coach travel is pretty evenly split between both parties, people have their preferences and that makes life easy for all, I doubt either side would really want the work of picking up the others slack should one of them stop for whatever reason.

To be perfectly honest with you, when it comes to tackling Ron head on no amount of supporter organisations are going to get anything out of him he doesn't want you to have. But you see the problem with creating another supporter organisation through SZ is that it would need to have a physical presence on top of it's established web presence, the Trust already have this and SZ would have to find people willing to put the time and effort in to do the same. SZ is a fantastic site and quite unique in respect of the amount of traffic that goes through it. Similar clubs to us have very poor fan's sites in comparison and those that have made it what it is should be very proud of what they have achieved. Both the Trust and SZ have evolved into the entities that they are today and if they could work together you would have a wonderful supporters organisation that could really have some clout, but it's my belief that wont happen not because of agenda's, we all want what's best for SUFC, but because of ego's and personalities, on both sides.

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

Damn you are good Pitsea,im voting for you,all your points are very well put and very well thought through and i here by concede that the trust will shine through in our hour of need.
Really great post but alas you are correct i feel about being united but we may be wrong and one day maybe a united front wiil push through.
Live ong and prosper.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I read OBL's comments in the Wembley forum and if they are working on something that isnt yet finalised then it is hard to comment, perhaps we should leave Ron to do that. Again though I dont see why Paul Fitz has to be a member here, he can carry out his responsibilities as Trust chairman without membership of SZ if that's what he chooses.

I can't comment on the Trust's objections to TZ being on the fan's forum other than maybe they see TZ as an extension of SZ which is represented and not unique enough in say the way TBV is. I'm quite certain though it's nothing to do with competition. It seem's to me at the moment that away coach travel is pretty evenly split between both parties, people have their preferences and that makes life easy for all, I doubt either side would really want the work of picking up the others slack should one of them stop for whatever reason.

The problem seems to be that there are two opposing views on whether the Trust chairman did expressly say anything about not having TZ represented at Fans Forums.

As to the Trust's plans for Wembley, well, they've been announced now. There will be free face painting for children getting on at Roots Hall, and a free SJS Newsletter with stuff to keep them occupied on the journey. There will also be a BBQ (run by local Lions Club), selling bacon rolls, hot dogs or burgers and hot drinks to people before they board the coaches. The intention has been to try and make things as enjoyable as possible for everyone concerned.

 

[jamesmut2000]

I've heard several calls for another supporters club in recent months and until now I've always thought there was no need. Now I'm not sure but I'm also very aware that another club could just make the whole issue even more divisive. Both Berrichonne and Pitsea have made some great points above for and against another club to be set up. As Ken said earlier the Zone is just a forum for people to share their opinions so I'm not sure that in its current form should be the basis for an independent supporters club (and the obvious extra workload that it would put upon its owners/mods who already give up their time for bugger all!)

My opinion is that any club set up would need a very clear stance on what it is set up for. There's been many comments on here over the years as to what the point of the Trust is and I'm fairly sure there is a lot of people who don't/won't get involved with the Trust because of that issue and I wouldn't want any new club to have to face that issue as well.

Maybe it could happen and it could unite the fan base more than it is now. Time will tell I suppose.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I've heard several calls for another supporters club in recent months and until now I've always thought there was no need. Now I'm not sure but I'm also very aware that another club could just make the whole issue even more divisive. Both Berrichonne and Pitsea have made some great points above for and against another club to be set up. As Ken said earlier the Zone is just a forum for people to share their opinions so I'm not sure that in its current form should be the basis for an independent supporters club (and the obvious extra workload that it would put upon its owners/mods who already give up their time for bugger all!)

My opinion is that any club set up would need a very clear stance on what it is set up for. There's been many comments on here over the years as to what the point of the Trust is and I'm fairly sure there is a lot of people who don't/won't get involved with the Trust because of that issue and I wouldn't want any new club to have to face that issue as well.

Maybe it could happen and it could unite the fan base more than it is now. Time will tell I suppose.

Problem with that though James, would be we'd be back into "unofficial" and "official" groups. I really don't get why people are so anti the Trust.