Breaking News Another HMRC Winding up Petition Issued against SUFC

[Mick]

How many more chances will the high court give RM?

An infinite number ...... as long as he's paid up come the date of the hearing.

 

[Jam_Man]

If only the following could be answered truthfully:How much is owed to current staff,and how much behind in weeks or months.How much is owed and outstanding to staff that have left the club ? Total debts outstanding ? I fear that RM is fast running out of ammo.Time for us supporters to gather together and try to find solutions.From day one has been hand to mouth,and with a compliant ,weak board of directors the "Supreme Commander" has got away with murder !! Why people think just because we might get a new stadium,doesn't mean automatic success.We have as a club never been in such a precarious financial position.Funny how some people trust RM's every move.He pinched Roots Hall for nowhere near the going rate.The sooner we see the back of him, the better.

How much we owe isnt the important question to ask, its how we expect to be able to finance ourselves going forward which is key.

Even if we owe 10 million thats not an issue if the stadium redevelopment clears it all.

Thats the questions that need answering, but they wont get answered because the answer at the moment would no doubt be we havent a clue....

 

[BrettieAngell]

An infinite number ...... as long as he's paid up come the date of the hearing.

Yep HMRC are just giving him no room for manouvre by issuing a winding up order every time he's late.

 

[Billy is the best]

HMRC are ensuring that they are always being paid in a resonable time span by adopting the high court route. The problem will be that whilst the HMRC are being paid other creditors will not.
i would also expect that suppliers and contractors will be asking for payment up front before carrying out services.It takes a long time and careful management to trade out of these conditions. Either that or a large influx of money.

 

[Mick]

Yep HMRC are just giving him no room for manouvre by issuing a winding up order every time he's late.

Given that he never seems to pay until they issue a winding up petition, what choice have they got ?

 

[Napster]

As usual HMRC using and abusing the courts as an unpaid debt collector. Any other organisation would have to employ an accounts receivable department. However there are so many lovers and defenders of the tax authorities on here I expect few to agree.

of course if we were a multinational with the right connection a cozy deal would be done over a nice dinner- but we are a broke football club trying to survive ( so of course we should be shown no mercy). The taxman will be delighted that the clubs supporters are so eager to see it from the very nice considerate taxman's point of view.

I will now disappear for a couple of days as now doubt outrage will follow

Not me. :winking:

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Given that he never seems to pay until they issue a winding up petition, what choice have they got ?

Perhaps they (HMRC) asked when the bill was going to be paid and did not receive enough assurance from the club - leaving them (HMRC) with little choice but to take the legal road once again.

I would not be surprised to find the matter is all concluded in time as per previous examples - two words come to mind - cashflow.

 

[McNasty]

When we have been in court before for the same matter the Judge has warned SUFC above future court appearances and I am sure we are very near the top of the HMRC list of football clubs to pursue immediately the bill isn't paid on time.

Probably trying to embarrass RM into paying promptly ---- which he should as the rest of us have to.

 

[chapperzUK]

Perhaps they (HMRC) asked when the bill was going to be paid and did not receive enough assurance from the club - leaving them (HMRC) with little choice but to take the legal road once again.

I would not be surprised to find the matter is all concluded in time as per previous examples - two words come to mind - cashflow.

When you spell it right it is 2 words :winking:

I believe HMRC have said in the past that they take a no-nonsense stand with football clubs. I'm sure they wouldn't bother taking us to court if it wasn't much and if it was a first time offence.

 

[londonblue]

HMRC are ensuring that they are always being paid in a resonable time span by adopting the high court route. The problem will be that whilst the HMRC are being paid other creditors will not.
i would also expect that suppliers and contractors will be asking for payment up front before carrying out services.It takes a long time and careful management to trade out of these conditions. Either that or a large influx of money.

I believe (although I may be wrong) that the reason HMRC take such a hard line with football clubs is because the Football League have a rule that football related creditors should be paid first. This has in the past led to many clubs not settling their tax bills until all football related bills had been paid.

By doing this HMRC effectively jump the queue.

 

[Beefy]

They do it because Football Clubs (including our own) used to take the **** and would run up huge debts.

There should be a middle ground though. When this happened a couple of summers ago Tara Brady said at the time that it was literally down to not having the cash on the day that it was due even though they knew that they would have it a couple of days later. In that instance it's not in anyone's interest to go to the Courts but they do it anyway.

 

[Mick]

By doing this HMRC effectively jump the queue.

... or, put another way, stop others jumping the queue in front of them ?

 

[dannypav]

Grrr, I hate queue jumpers and their queue jumping ways !

 

[Jam_Man]

Yep HMRC are just giving him no room for manouvre by issuing a winding up order every time he's late.

Id look at it this way, before without them on our backs we ran up a 2 million pound debt. It might be a hassle for us but Id rather they kept us in the black than for Ron to run up a massive debt again.

 

[stortford]

There is a difference in the two main types of payments made to HMRC.

Income Tax and Corporation Tax are bills an individual or company pays out of their general funds. PAYE/NIC/Sub-contractor deductions and VAT are moneys that Parliament has decided the employer/contractor/trader must collect on their behalf. You may not think it is fair but that's what the country has decided. PAYE etc deducted and VAT collected are never the individual or company's money and it's just a matter of administrative convenience to both sides that they are only paid over periodically rather than every time they are received.

If you don't pay your IT/CT on time you are just late paying a bill. If you don't pay your VAT/PAYE etc on time you are effectively misappropriating public funds.

As has been said above you don't get to a position where every time you're a day late with PAYE/VAT it's straight to the High Court unless you've got serious history and the only way out of that cycle is to rebuild your record of being someone who pays on time. I think it take's about a year but may stand to be corrected.

 

[Suffolk Blue]

So what happens if YOU or I don't pay our taxes on time ? This is not HMRC harassing the club, its a business and it is under a legal and morale obligation to meet its commitments. If it can not do that it is not a going concern. This is not a one off problem it's happened at least 5 times.

As an individual we get a reminder from the HMRC and a penalty charge. If we are in difficulties we can make arrangements to pay, often by applying the outstanding amount to the following year's bill. When my company had problems with HMRC they sent me reminders and applied interest to the outstanding amount; they didn't take me to winders court every time I was a couple of days late with a return or a payment.

HMRC has had its nose put out of joint by football clubs (mainly those who've gone into administration like Leeds and Leicester) and is now being vindictive. It is definitely not standard practice to seek the winding-up of a company that has missed a payment by a few days. I haven't got the time to do this myself but would be interested to know if HMRC is pursuing other clubs in the same way. It'll be interesting because we definitely aren't the only club to have difficulties paying our tax bills on time.

 

[Blue-Eyes]

getting :sick: of this, when will it end?

 

[united we stand]

Id look at it this way, before without them on our backs we ran up a 2 million pound debt. It might be a hassle for us but Id rather they kept us in the black than for Ron to run up a massive debt again.

hadn't thought of that, very good point

 

[BrettieAngell]

Id look at it this way, before without them on our backs we ran up a 2 million pound debt. It might be a hassle for us but Id rather they kept us in the black than for Ron to run up a massive debt again.

Exactly, if we got into that sort of situation again it would be game over.

 

[londonblue]

... or, put another way, stop others jumping the queue in front of them ?

Yes, that would be a better way of putting it. I guess an even better way would be to say that they circumvent the FL rule, which is unfair in the first place.