Do you support Southend's Grammar Schools?

[Benfleet A1]

Just seen this thread pop up on the front of the main forum page, and thought it would be interesting to read. As a current WHSB student I really don't see why there is so much negativity surrounding grammar schools. I certainly do not agree with the idea that you have to be rich to attend either. I came from a very ordinary background, attending temple sutton primary school, and recieved no additional tutoring outside of school for my 11+. My parents (and I, to the extent that I actually had much of a say in the matter), decided that the grammar schools would be the better option for me. Why should the fact that some feel like these schools are full of snobs or whatever their argument is, mean that some students shouldn't be allowed to try to get the greatly beneficial education from these schools. I knew some people from my primary school who were very bright and could have done well in a grammar school, but were instead forced to attend cecil jones either by their parents or by peer pressure from their friends to go to the same school, be negatively influenced by those around them who were not committed to work and the poor standards that led to the school being put into special measures. This is considered as the local school in my area, and since some suggest that you should attend the school nearest to you, I don't like to think of how differently things could have turned out for me (now currently considering my offers for university) if I didn't have the opportunity to attend WHSB.

Cracking post, best one of the entire thread.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Thank you. Your example though seems to support segregation ie the yellow sheet kids won't be made to feel thick and the brighter kids would be incentivised to improve......

For the record, I've got nothing against streaming (in a comprehensive school system of course)-the research proves fairly conclusively that streaming works- but certainly not within a so-called, mixed ability class, in a so-called "comprehensive" school.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

:zzzzz::zzzzz::zzzzz::zzzzz::zzzzz:

Perhap un bon dia (as they say here) ie one fine day, you'll make an intelligent contribution to this thread.

This (needless to say) isn't one.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Perhap un bon dia (as they say here) ie one fine day, you'll make an intelligent contribution to this thread.

This (needless to say) isn't one.

Nope, maybe I'll make light of child abuse instead.

 

[Pubey]

I'm quite happy to admit I was a so-called 11+ "failure".

I'm also quite happy to talk about my academic qualifications,which extend from O/A levels to a (BA Hons.) Degree in Politics, (from Birmingham Polytechnic),a PGCE in Social Studies /Remedial Education (from Avery Hill College of Education,London) and a M.A. in T.E.S.O.L (from The Institute of Education,University of London).

If you have to post your academic qualifications then you've lost the argument.

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

If you have to post your academic qualifications then you've lost the argument.

I left education with a swimming badge grade 4.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If you have to post your academic qualifications then you've lost the argument.

Not in the context of being a so-called academic "failure" at 11, I haven't.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Just seen this thread pop up on the front of the main forum page, and thought it would be interesting to read. As a current WHSB student I really don't see why there is so much negativity surrounding grammar schools. I certainly do not agree with the idea that you have to be rich to attend either. I came from a very ordinary background, attending temple sutton primary school, and recieved no additional tutoring outside of school for my 11+. My parents (and I, to the extent that I actually had much of a say in the matter), decided that the grammar schools would be the better option for me. Why should the fact that some feel like these schools are full of snobs or whatever their argument is, mean that some students shouldn't be allowed to try to get the greatly beneficial education from these schools. I knew some people from my primary school who were very bright and could have done well in a grammar school, but were instead forced to attend cecil jones either by their parents or by peer pressure from their friends to go to the same school, be negatively influenced by those around them who were not committed to work and the poor standards that led to the school being put into special measures. This is considered as the local school in my area, and since some suggest that you should attend the school nearest to you, I don't like to think of how differently things could have turned out for me (now currently considering my offers for university) if I didn't have the opportunity to attend WHSB.

Sam the discussion is not to insult any particular school is is more on wether there is any need or benefit in having different types of schools and whether testing at 11 is the best way of segregating. Everyone has their own experience of the school they went to and just second hand knowledge at best of all the other schools. If you have a fairly academic way of thinking and want to do well then generally you will do well no matter which school you go to. When someone on here says they think that well into adult life they got a job because of the type of school they achieved at 11 that does make you wonder. You shouldn't need to defend your school though as where you go is your parent's choice not yours, and pretty much school is school and exam wise at 16 and 18 you will achieve generally the same as you were going to whichever school you are at.

 

[OldBlueLady]

When someone on here says they think that well into adult life they got a job because of the type of school they achieved at 11 that does make you wonder.

This is a fact in my case. My current boss told me it was one of the things that made me stand out from over 100 other applicants.

 

[prawntobewild]

Notice in today's Echo that SHSB is facing a £250k shortfall next year. I fully appreciate the concept of the Grammar School system - my main gripe is the massive % of attendees from outside the Borough - something like 75-80 % maybe more - If indeed the school is in financial distress why don't they write to all parents asking for £200 for each pupil to continue their excellent education ?
It bothers me that when passing Wescliff School I see coaches jam packed with kids going to places that i'd not heard of such as Wickham Bishops & Althorne - surely it's not beyond the realms of possibility to build a school that serves these areas.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

This is a fact in my case. My current boss told me it was one of the things that made me stand out from over 100 other applicants.

And that is crazy isn't it - that you took an exam at 11 and the outcome affected you getting a particular job or not, erm...20ish years later....

 

[londonblue]

We might be at cross purposes here. I'm looking at the hypothetical as to whether those students who would otherwise have gone to grammar school would do as well in a mixed system. A better indication for this would be areas with no grammar schools or where grammar schools have been abolished.

I'd always presumed the top end would do less well without grammar schools and the lower end better.....

Agreed, and that's what the quote I highlighted said.

 

[londonblue]

It's so much more dignified when people can ask a question and get a answer without being ignored. I've enjoyed the last couple of pages.

Bravo, Pubey, London Blue, Number 11 and Callan

Who said that?

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

Notice in today's Echo that SHSB is facing a £250k shortfall next year. I fully appreciate the concept of the Grammar School system - my main gripe is the massive % of attendees from outside the Borough - something like 75-80 % maybe more - If indeed the school is in financial distress why don't they write to all parents asking for £200 for each pupil to continue their excellent education ?
It bothers me that when passing Wescliff School I see coaches jam packed with kids going to places that i'd not heard of such as Wickham Bishops & Althorne - surely it's not beyond the realms of possibility to build a school that serves these areas.

I do believe the Grammar schools already politely ask for a contribution from parents/carers each year, can anyone with a child attending a local Grammar school confirm this happens?

Yep Southend Grammar schools have as little as 15% local children in some years. It seems less local children than ever are actually taking the 11+ as schools/parents/children know that the sheer number of children from outside Southend taking the 11+ pushes up the pass rate needed to gain entry.

As for building new Grammar schools that can't happen as new ones have been banned since 1998.

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

Just seen this thread pop up on the front of the main forum page, and thought it would be interesting to read. As a current WHSB student I really don't see why there is so much negativity surrounding grammar schools. I certainly do not agree with the idea that you have to be rich to attend either. I came from a very ordinary background, attending temple sutton primary school, and recieved no additional tutoring outside of school for my 11+. My parents (and I, to the extent that I actually had much of a say in the matter), decided that the grammar schools would be the better option for me. Why should the fact that some feel like these schools are full of snobs or whatever their argument is, mean that some students shouldn't be allowed to try to get the greatly beneficial education from these schools. I knew some people from my primary school who were very bright and could have done well in a grammar school, but were instead forced to attend cecil jones either by their parents or by peer pressure from their friends to go to the same school, be negatively influenced by those around them who were not committed to work and the poor standards that led to the school being put into special measures. This is considered as the local school in my area, and since some suggest that you should attend the school nearest to you, I don't like to think of how differently things could have turned out for me (now currently considering my offers for university) if I didn't have the opportunity to attend WHSB.

I think even the short time ago that you took your 11+ things have changed and recent studies have confirmed that children from wealthy backgrounds do indeed have a huge advantage in gaining entry to Grammar schools. As I have pointed out above as little as 15% of local children are now gaining entry to a Southend Grammar school and that's a crazy situation.

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/117...aks_out_over___250_000_funding_crisis/?ref=mr

"The school is an academy, funded, not by Southend Council, but directly from Whitehall, which pays it a sum of money per pupil to cover running costs. Part of the amount each school gets is based on pupils’ social background, with schools teaching children from deprived homes getting more. This means some schools get as much as £7,500 a pupil, while Southend High School for Boys, whose pupils have all passed the 11- Plus exam and tend to come from more affluent families, gets an average of just £4,500"

Quote above from the Echo website.

 

[number11]

Only 15% of locals is a disgusting figure and should be flagged up more when stories abound of how we should be proud of our 'local' grammar school.

However, if this means that the local kids who would have gone to a grammar school now don't, on a local scale surely we are moving towards the scenario the advocates against grammar schools are seekIng ie high achieving local students (who are losing out to those from other areas for grammar places) are now mixing with the other students....and perhaps teaching standards and funding is a bigger issue then selective schools....

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Only 15% of locals is a disgusting figure and should be flagged up more when stories abound of how we should be proud of our 'local' grammar school.

However, if this means that the local kids who would have gone to a grammar school now don't, on a local scale surely we are moving towards the scenario the advocates against grammar schools are seekIng ie high achieving local students (who are losing out to those from other areas for grammar places) are now mixing with the other students....and perhaps teaching standards and funding is a bigger issue then selective schools....

It is also poor for the boys and girls in mixing and taking part in pre/post school sport and societies; kids often go with their peers to swimming, scouts, athletic and football for example.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

I would have thought that if lots of pupils are now bused in the answer is more Grammar schools in the areas they live rather than the comprehensives their parents obviously reject.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

When I first went to WHSB 51 years ago :stunned::nope: the thing I found difficult was i lost my 2 best friends who went to Belfairs. I still see one from time to time. He's done OK. Horses for courses. Not everyone is academic.

 

[Jam_Man]

Only 15% of locals is a disgusting figure and should be flagged up more when stories abound of how we should be proud of our 'local' grammar school.

However, if this means that the local kids who would have gone to a grammar school now don't, on a local scale surely we are moving towards the scenario the advocates against grammar schools are seekIng ie high achieving local students (who are losing out to those from other areas for grammar places) are now mixing with the other students....and perhaps teaching standards and funding is a bigger issue then selective schools....

My daughter went through the process last year, everyone who qualified for a place at her school for grammar school got a place.

There may well be a lot shipped in out of the area, but local kids who qualify certainly seemed to get in this year. Sadly my daughter missed out purely because the entry process is all based on the 11+ and she had an off day (she was always borderline).