why won't Payne fit into the team?

[cerbera45]

Payne was pretty much the spark we needed yesterday. No doubt Brown won't have noticed, much like Timlin and Worrall's perfomances against Brighton, and he will be on the bench next home game

Timlin was largely ineffective against Brighton IMO because he played most of the game on the right side of midfield (not his fault I know).

 

[OldBlueLady]

*cough* Wembley *cough*

Ok, will give you that, but Lenny's were in the final quarter not near the half way line.

 

[Southend Elvis]

I would never replace lenny with Payne, but lenny is never replaced by anyone, I would never say Ryan is our best player. But according to PB selections he is, maybe Ryan is the reason we don't create anything.... Come to think has Ryan ever been dropped?

 

[Beefy]

I thought we looked quite comfortable in the last 15 minutes on Saturday playing 4-2-3-1. I appreciate that Walsall were letting us play at that point but for the first time all game we had a formation where the players seemed happy that they understood what they and their teammates were supposed to be doing. Not only would it bring the best out of Payne but puts two of Worrall/Hurst/Weston in positions to hurt the opposition. If one of the three strikers can play in that position then it looks the best one for us at least for now.

 

[slapheadsteve]

Why can't he play up top in a 442? Is it because he is short? Kevin Phillips had a very successful career and he is only 2" taller than Payne. I see no reason why Payne can't play up top with a big target man

Jack is a impact player not a full 90 minute player.
He has shown he does not have the physical muscle to compete up front.
Saturday he was the spark, but i am not a great Weston fan but if he lost the ball as much as Jack does he
would get so much abuse. Jack does some very good runs but loses the ball most of the time.
Then the team have to defend very quickly.

Only occasionally would i start with Jack.
On Saturday it was obvious Wallsall's full backs were attacking drawing our defenders and midfield in
leaving so much space in the middle of the park. Jack was bought on because of this.
Tims would have been the better option. Although OBL will hate this we really in this league need Coker
and especially White pressing forward drawing defenders and midield out of position.
I do think Wordsworth though showing lovely touches should have filled that big hole more in the middle of the park.
Anyway i think Jack is a good player but gets bullied off the ball too much, Not many starts from me.
I love youth team players breaking through but you cant let ability and results pull the wool over your eyes.

 

[Jam_Man]

I thought we looked quite comfortable in the last 15 minutes on Saturday playing 4-2-3-1. I appreciate that Walsall were letting us play at that point but for the first time all game we had a formation where the players seemed happy that they understood what they and their teammates were supposed to be doing. Not only would it bring the best out of Payne but puts two of Worrall/Hurst/Weston in positions to hurt the opposition. If one of the three strikers can play in that position then it looks the best one for us at least for now.

I thought it was a decent set up and even if Payne doesn't play that position Wordsworth can with Timlin/Deegan/Leonard filling the two central positions behind them.

The only thing that bothers me is then having to play only one of the forwards, maybe Hunt can play that role.

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

I thought the whole point of getting Wordsworth in was to play him in that number 10 role particularly in a 4-2-3-1. Not to have our attacking midfielder sitting on half way line. He did exactly the same with JJ O'toole last year. Went on and on about how he gets goals from edge of the box and can even play up top then puts him in front of the back four. JJ went back to Northampton and started scoring again.

We never give our attacking midfielders license to get forward, defensive thinking all the time. Now Penney has gone who is there to even voice an opinion on attacking play? After the match all Brown mentioned was how open we were, not about our attacking play. So all week on the training ground defending is all they will work on!

 

[dannypav]

As I see it , everyone ( including me ) desperately wants Payne to be the messiah and he has two attributes that endear him to the fans - effort and skill.
However , although he looks good on the ball and is getting stronger ( a little bit anyway ) there is still very little 'end product' for me.

 

[Jam_Man]

I thought the whole point of getting Wordsworth in was to play him in that number 10 role particularly in a 4-2-3-1. Not to have our attacking midfielder sitting on half way line. He did exactly the same with JJ O'toole last year. Went on and on about how he gets goals from edge of the box and can even play up top then puts him in front of the back four. JJ went back to Northampton and started scoring again.

We never give our attacking midfielders license to get forward, defensive thinking all the time. Now Penney has gone who is there to even voice an opinion on attacking play? After the match all Brown mentioned was how open we were, not about our attacking play. So all week on the training ground defending is all they will work on!

Yes we do, when Payne plays he is always in advanced positions. He is always buzzing around the penalty box.

Wordsworth wasnt on Saturday but that I would assume is because we were meant to be be playing 433, so the 3 midfield players were meant to be central. Then Payne was brought on to be that real no.10 in a 4231 formation with Wordsworth/Leonard continuing to play the central midfield roles.

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

Yes we do, when Payne plays he is always in advanced positions. He is always buzzing around the penalty box.

Wordsworth wasnt on Saturday but that I would assume is because we were meant to be be playing 433, so the 3 midfield players were meant to be central. Then Payne was brought on to be that real no.10 in a 4231 formation with Wordsworth/Leonard continuing to play the central midfield roles.

Ok yes agreed Payne did but we only did so after losing. I'm sorry but playing Wordsworth deep is just pointless to be honest. It's not how he plays.

Also there's a difference between running forward with the ball at your feet from deep and actually allowing your midfielders to run into the box when a cross comes in. There was a point in the first half when a great ball was pulled back into the box and not one midfielder was running onto it. Look at Walsall's 2nd goal, the ball was pulled back to 18 yard line and a player ran onto it and scored. How often does Timlin, Deegan, Atkinson, Leonard do that? Hence the lack of goals from midfield.
The only one who did it was Clifford, look what Brown did to him...

 

[Jam_Man]

Ok yes agreed Payne did but we only did so after losing. I'm sorry but playing Wordsworth deep is just pointless to be honest. It's not how he plays.

Also there's a difference between running forward with the ball at your feet from deep and actually allowing your midfielders to run into the box when a cross comes in. There was a point in the first half when a great ball was pulled back into the box and not one midfielder was running onto it. Look at Walsall's 2nd goal, the ball was pulled back to 18 yard line and a player ran onto it and scored. How often does Timlin, Deegan, Atkinson, Leonard do that? Hence the lack of goals from midfield.
The only one who did it was Clifford, look what Brown did to him...

Which is why its already been acknowledged the set up and selection were all wrong.

We have certainly had a lack of goals from central midfield and Id hope Wordsworth will address that but he can only do so if he is playing in a system thats allowing him to get forward. I dont think either set up on Saturday really gave him license to, the 433 held him in midfield to try to cope with Walsall, and when we changed to 4231 he had to show a bit of discipline to allow Payne to go forward.

 

[Beefy]

Are you sure we played 4-3-3 at any point on Saturday? Looked 4-4-2 to me until Hurst came on.

 

[Jam_Man]

Started as 433 with Weston/Mooney/Pig 'up front'

 

[Beefy]

Maybe but I'm not convinced that is how the team actually lined up.

 

[mrsblue]

Look it is simples !

352 attack attack attack

Bents

White
Bazza
Cokes

Lenny holding
Wordy
Jack just behind the front 2
Wozza
Hurst or Tims

Hunt if fit
Piggy

Donny 3 Shrimpers 5

 

[Jam_Man]

Coker and White as centre halves?:stunned:

Maybe but I'm not convinced that is how the team actually lined up.

Looked like it to me, There was no bank of four across the midfield.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

J. Payne have to adapt playing on wide roles, if he ever get into the team.

 

[rlb999]

J. Payne have to adapt playing on wide roles, if he ever get into the team.

Formation needs to adapt to Payne if it decides it wants him in the deam. If it won't do that, he has no future.

 

[Jam_Man]

Watching the highlights on Blues Player, late on second half PAyne is the one starting most of the moves, all from a deeper position, really highlights where his strengths are. Push him too far up and you are taking away the best part of his game.

Obviously at this time Walsall are giving us more space and hitting us on the break and it doesnt show the many times he ran into a dead end,but thats where he is best. Stick him in a 4231 with Hunt up front with Weston (for pace) and Worrall wide of him and he has plenty of options to use. Thats how we get the best out of him.

 

[leeblue]

Payne has one role in any team.....he plays in the hole....a number 10. The decision has to be whether you set up the team to accomodate him. The striker he plays behind needs to be pacy powerful and intelligent.....we do not have that striker, simples.

Bentley
White. Barrett. Bolger. Coker
Worral. Timlin. Wordsworth. Atkinson

Payne
Hunt
If Payne plays this is how I would line up.