When will the takeover go through? Council / Citizen Housing agree new Heads of Terms 26 June

[shrimpled]

It would, if accepted, prevent the land being sold for 6 months so timing would be important. Overall, it offers some protection but it’s not a permanent shield.

Many thanks for taking some time and for your clear and simple replies, it's appreciated. The less guff the better.

 

[kentblues]

It would, if accepted, prevent the land being sold for 6 months so timing would be important. Overall, it offers some protection but it’s not a permanent shield.

Given agreement on the revised proposal this Friday latest would the likely planning route be in two steps. First amend current planning to remove the stadium build requirements and adjust for the new housing mix, and then second a separate planning application for the new housing where the stadium would have been?

Would this, in theory, allow a quicker route to the development starting? (given relative small amendments to existing planning first) and therefore to COSU beginning to receive some funds earlier as well?

 

[united we stand]

Absolutely, and here's the thing that worries me.

COSU are £3.5m deep and if they walk away, that loss is crystallised. Plus, it means almost certain death for the club. There is no way the WUP will be paid off. Without a club, the covenant on RH is unenforceable. It can be developed. RM already has the planning permission and he would be an absolute loon if he hadn't already got offers on the table from developers to buy RH with the planning consent if we go tits up and so he will pocket quite a few quid now plus future income as houses are built.

He can sell FF off as a piece of land. Or not. It doesn't matter. It is only FF that the council are referring to regarding not giving any more planning permissions. Roots Hall is already banked. So he can sell up and bugger off.

The only way the above doesn't happen is that the club survives, then he can't develop RH. But beyond next week, the only way that happens is to pay the WUP. Unless COSU want to realise the loss, they have to pay it. There is no other way.

Once COSU have done that, then they will have blinked first (they technically already have by paying £3.5m on an asset they don't own) and so Ron can take his time. There is no longer an immediate rush and he can drag it out longer. With no sale going through, players will want to go, possibly the management team as well. The club will be on life support again.

Now I understand that the cost of finance may well be putting pressure on the Martins, but is it enough to make him do a deal now, or potentially wait a little bit to sell RH to developers?

Ron has no interest now in SUFC and doesn't give a flying **** about us. I believe it is all about the money now and what will maximise his return.

So, someone in the know, please can you tell me I'm wrong (and why) and that this scenario can't or won't happen please?

Why is the covenant unenforceable if there is no club? It’s a genuine question as I have no idea.
I ask as the covenant has a section explicitly covering a a no SUFC scenario. I read it as a phoenix club would inherit the covenant and therefore it would carry the same weight as it does today, whatever that is

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

Why is the covenant unenforceable if there is no club? It’s a genuine question as I have no idea.
I ask as the covenant has a section explicitly covering a a no SUFC scenario. I read it as a phoenix club would inherit the covenant and therefore it would carry the same weight as it does today, whatever that is

This is what I was always lead to believe. Its not SUFC specific, but relates to professional football in the borough.

 

[londonblue]

This is what I was always lead to believe. Its not SUFC specific, but relates to professional football in the borough.

If there's a phoenix club, they're not likely to be professional for some time to come.

 

[united we stand]

This is what I was always lead to believe. It’s not SUFC specific, but relates to professional football in the borough.

Excactly, I posted this in May, post 1398

From the covenant

‘The land must be used by Southend united football club (the) limited or its successor upon administration or liquidation. And consent may only be given for sporting facilities and ancillary services’

 

[Tommy2holes]

Excactly, I posted this in May, post 1398

From the covenant

‘The land must be used by Southend united football club (the) limited or its successor upon administration or liquidation. And consent may only be given for sporting facilities and ancillary services’

The covenant is there to protect the club.

I guess how much protection will literally be based on how it's interpreted. It's an old document.

Look at Jones's memorial. Part of that has been encroached in Rons Fossetts farm. I was led to believe that a similar document exists for that land.

The biggest thing for me. If SUFC goes bust and reforms immediately as a phoenix club, can roots hall be bought, leased to the club. I think that is key.

Bury will eventually get back to the football league, as will Macclesfield. Both have their league grounds to play at.

Roots hall is the centre of everything that the future holds for Southend united FC or Southend united AFC etc.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Perhaps this is tangential to the main discussion but the above posts raise the question of what constitutes an amateur team versus a professional team. And who makes the decision either way?

Would paying for a player's expenses be considered a payment for instance and be enough to trigger the professional status?

Would the smallest of payments per game (say £5 or £10) per player make the team "professional"?

Perhaps it is if the club pays the player via a payroll system & notifies the Inland Revenue?

[shoulder shrug]

Conversely, I remember the old days when athletics & rugby union were "amateur sports" and the top people were given free kit, free cars etcetera .......... but they remained classified as amatuer as they weren't paid. [eyebrows raised; smiley face]

 

[Shr1mperBlue]

Hi,

Planning permission for RH is conditional on the new stadium being built. The planning permission also runs out in 3 years.

Selling RH would be difficult as it’s leveraged near or beyond its land worth.

There are also levers that could be pulled which would make it difficult for the stadium to be sold or demolished.

Everything is in a tangled mess with different companies owned by RM owning different things and owing money to Tom, Dick, and Harry.

The cleanest solution is to do a deal that helps COSU take the club. We’re working round the clock on that.

Very much appreciate the new transparency and vigour you have brought to the table over this long running saga. Can I please just request we don’t use any language on this public forum which may rile up / anger the Martins. I’m obviously no fan of theirs, but at this stage let’s just try and keep everyone sweet so the deal can be done. I’m referring to things such as ‘tangled mess’ and ‘Tom, Dick and Harry’ and references to them being leveraged up beyond their worth. Let’s just be a little careful as while we want the pressure on to do the deal, we don’t want them feeling like simply sticking two fingers up at the council because you’ve been grandstanding and the club goes under as a result.

Sorry to be a party pooper and thanks again for your support so far.

 

[Green Wizard]

I can't see how a phoenix club could afford to play at FF, how much would the rent be for a club playing in the lower reaches of the pyramid? Would Ron Martin or his family be the owner of the ground?

 

[fbm]

I can't see how a phoenix club could afford to play at FF, how much would the rent be for a club playing in the lower reaches of the pyramid? Would Ron Martin or his family be the owner of the ground?

The ownership of RH wouldn't change.

It would take some time for a Phoenix club to rise through to be able to play at RH and then you have the issues of cost, rent... it's a money pit of a stadium, as we know, and Ron isn't going to fund the upkeep. It won't be in his interests.

Hopefully it will be an irrelevance.

 

[meerkat54]

Don’t expect any conclusion to the deal with the SCC this Friday.
He will try to string the consortium and SCC along as he will see himself still in control.
I think he would rather see the club go into administration than sign the deal offered.
I do really hope that I’m wrong and my post will be totally irrelevant come Friday.

 

[fbm]

Perhaps this is tangential to the main discussion but the above posts raise the question of what constitutes an amateur team versus a professional team. And who makes the decision either way?

Would paying for a player's expenses be considered a payment for instance and be enough to trigger the professional status?

Would the smallest of payments per game (say £5 or £10) per player make the team "professional"?

Perhaps it is if the club pays the player via a payroll system & notifies the Inland Revenue?

[shoulder shrug]

Conversely, I remember the old days when athletics & rugby union were "amateur sports" and the top people were given free kit, free cars etcetera .......... but they remained classified as amatuer as they weren't paid. [eyebrows raised; smiley face]

I played for a club once where expenses were paid but they weren't professional. I think Wealdstone are only semi professional.

 

[Blue Yonder]

I played for a club once where expenses were paid but they weren't professional. I think Wealdstone are only semi professional.

Was Steve Evans the manager ?

 

[RHB]

I played for a club once where expenses were paid but they weren't professional. I think Wealdstone are only semi professional.

It used to be called Boot money in my day, not that it ever went on boots.

 

[rigsby]

I played for a club once where expenses were paid but they weren't professional. I think Wealdstone are only semi professional.

Certainly wasn't Southend United then.

 

[Cockle43]

The covenant is there to protect the club.

I guess how much protection will literally be based on how it's interpreted. It's an old document.

Look at Jones's memorial. Part of that has been encroached in Rons Fossetts farm. I was led to believe that a similar document exists for that land.

The biggest thing for me. If SUFC goes bust and reforms immediately as a phoenix club, can roots hall be bought, leased to the club. I think that is key.

Bury will eventually get back to the football league, as will Macclesfield. Both have their league grounds to play at.

Roots hall is the centre of everything that the future holds for Southend united FC or Southend united AFC etc.

In the case of the Jones Memorial strip it was a slightly different scenario in that ALL Southend City Councillors are Trustees for the ownership of Jones Memorial on behalf of the people of Southend and so therefore act as both Trustees and also beneficiaries of the covenant as they are residents of Southend.
In the case of the strip of land that was involved in the Supporters Way it wasn't, IIRC, a transfer of ownership but a permitted easement to allow right of way. Pedantics but, nevertheless, a crucial sway...

 

[annie1954]

Don’t expect any conclusion to the deal with the SCC this Friday.
He will try to string the consortium and SCC along as he will see himself still in control.
I think he would rather see the club go into administration than sign the deal offered.
I do really hope that I’m wrong and my post will be totally irrelevant come Friday.

Don’t think your far wrong with that Ron likes to be in control , and nobody tells Big Ron what to do !

 

[Cockle43]

Thanks and in the spirit of Shrimperzone, Bart or Flavs?

I feel Cllr Cowan would be a Flavs man...

 

[Medway Blue]

I feel Cllr Cowan would be a Flavs man...

Safe pair of hands