What would you do if we did sign Luke McCormick?

[Fish]

He's done the time our society deems he must pay. The 'punishment' he was sentenced to is what he had to pay.

But unless we're happy to put away for life everyone that commits a crime, we have to accept that we draw the line somewhere and that time inside is as much about changing someone's ways as it is about punishment. That way, the justification for letting someone out is that they have learnt from their mistake and won't do it again. And once they are out, they are a part of society just as much as you, me and the parents of his victims.

It's not just to ask 'what if the parents of the kids he killed were Southend fans?' because they quite clearly would have a very emotional conflict of interest.

Sometimes, life sucks. It surely tastes horrible each and every day those poor parents wake up without their kids. I can't begin to imagine what that's like. But i dare say that LM doesn't feel great about it either. He can never make up for what he did, but, as a part of our society, he has a right to seek gainful employment just as the next man. Yes, if he were a policeman he would be struck off and not allowed back in the force, but that's because it's part of the code of employment in that job. There is no such code for footballers, so we should not even be having a conversation about whether LM should be 'allowed' top play football for a living. Of course he should. And if he's good enough, then I'd clap him onto the RH pitch for what he is - a footballer in a Southend shirt. Yes, he's an ex-criminal: but the critical part of that is "ex".

We have to accept his right to resume as normal a life as possible just as much as we accept that what he did was wrong.

 

[Pubey]

I'd have significant worries that he wouldn't be able to play to a high standard due to the abuse he'll get. In other positions (a la Lee Hughes) he may be able to shrug it off and ignore it, but for a goalie I'm sure the abuse from the stands would be too much and it'd affect his game. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with him signing, he made a grave mistake but has shown remorse all the way through the process and therefore deserves a second chance.

 

[DTS]

As a Dad I am not impressed as a SUFC fan I am delighted. Take your pick.

Think what he did was appauling but I dont think there is any intention there he has just been an idiot and made a terrible mistake. No one questioned Ricky Otto signing and that for me mind is as bad a crime if not worse - all be it no one died.

 

[londonblue]

As I said in another thread, if he was a police officer he would have been sacked with no right to be a police officer.

If he was working for a bank he would have been sacked, he would then find it very hard to get a job doing the same thing. Beefy made a valid point that this has affected him already as he is linked with a lower level and that is true.

Im not saying he should not be able to get a job, or even become wealthy. He can start a business and be the next Steve Jobs for all I care, as long as I dont have to clap him out onto the pitch at Roots Hall.

As per the other thread, I shall retire from this debate as Ive made my personal feelings known. I never want to see the guy at our club and will be disgusted if we signed him. If others dont agree and can live with it thats down to them.

And as I replied (that you seem to have forgotten) if he worked in a bank, once the conviction had been spent he wouldn't have to declare it. Therefore it would make no difference to his potential. Because he is in a job that is in the public eye every potential employer will know what he did, and it will affect him until the day he retires.

 

[Rob1920]

Playing devils advocate here, can any of us who have ever in our lives driven a car when tired, when we even think we might be over the limit, or when just plain showing off, condemn Luke McCormick for what he did? I know I took the odd chance when I was a young man in the folly of youth, thinking I was invincible, with no kids of my own to give me a wake up call. Add to that more money than sense and a big powerful vehicle. There but for the grace of God etc etc. One awful mistake and he has now got to live the rest of his life with a burden I doubt any of us can comprehend.

Personally however, I wouldnt want him at the club because it would give us too much of the wrong kind of attention and I can't imagine he'll be able to play to his old level when suffering what is bound to be a constant barrage of abuse from opposition fans. If I were him I'd give up football & do some good with the rest of my life and try to stop other young men making the same horrific mistake. By carrying on I think it sends the wrong message, that you can do what he did, and then get back to being a celebrity footballer. That I do think is wrong.

 

[Reg Martin]

It's a difficult one as drink-driving, like smoking, was widely seen as acceptable by many not so many years back. No-one can condone him but to condemn him outirght you have to be very convinced of your own moral purity - how many people, hand on heart, have never done anything under the influence of drink or drugs (going right back to your teenage years) that could have led to something terrible happening?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Where's the option, Not Happy with signing a murderer but won't chuck ticket away?

Get your facts right. He isn't a murderer, murder is pre-meditated. He didn't plan to go out and kill those kids. He wasn't even convicted of manslaughter, it was for two counts of causing death by dangerous driving and driving with excess alcohol.

Everybody does things they regret, some worse than others. What he did was awful, but he was neither convicted of murder or manslaughter.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

As a Dad I am not impressed as a SUFC fan I am delighted. Take your pick.

Think what he did was appauling but I dont think there is any intention there he has just been an idiot and made a terrible mistake. No one questioned Ricky Otto signing and that for me mind is as bad a crime if not worse - all be it no one died.

Very good point. Pre-meditated armed robbery is bad. Anything pre-meditated is

 

[Angell Delight]

For god's sake Luggy just get Luke Daniels back on loan and end this debate please.....

 

[DENIGEDAVE]

With the current crop of convicted felons
one more isnt going add much. But dont
think he should get anywhere near southend
the club has a bad enough pr image anyway
this jus makes it worse

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

And as I replied (that you seem to have forgotten) if he worked in a bank, once the conviction had been spent he wouldn't have to declare it. Therefore it would make no difference to his potential. Because he is in a job that is in the public eye every potential employer will know what he did, and it will affect him until the day he retires.

His conviction will never be spent.

 

[white sock]

Aside from the fact that this man's actions caused the death of 2 children and ended any opportunity THEY ever had of being successful and/or wealthy, he hasn't played for 3 1/2 years!!

Don't want him.

 

[IloveShrimp]

As a Dad I am not impressed as a SUFC fan I am delighted. Take your pick.

Think what he did was appauling but I dont think there is any intention there he has just been an idiot and made a terrible mistake. No one questioned Ricky Otto signing and that for me mind is as bad a crime if not worse - all be it no one died.

Was going to say the same thing.

 

[OldBlueLady]

There's all this debate about McCormick, and people seem to be repeating that, through his actions, he's somehow lost the right to continue in his chosen profession as he is in the public eye and there's a chance (slim, imho) that children will idolise him.

How does that apply then to pop stars, film stars and celebrities who have been in a similar boat? I really can't be bothered to check but I'm sure there are plenty of people in the public eye who've committed criminal acts who've gone on to be idolised by many more people than are ever likely to idolise Luke McCormick. As I've said elsewhere, to deny McCormick employment in his chosen profession after his conviction is spent is discrimination. I don't believe any football player's contract would contain a clause in the same way that a surgeon's would about turning up drunk, and even if a player did turn up drunk then that would be down to the player's club to deal with as they see fit and within the terms of employment. That's not what happened in this instance.

I'd prefer McCormick to go elsewhere for his rehabilitation, but if anyone is going to be able to support him through this, then it's a manager who knows him well, and for whom, presumably, he has respect. Again, as I've said elsewhere, McCormick needs to be fully involved in making the error of ways clear to others and, wherever he ends up, I would hope he will be a relatively high profile presence in any campaign against drink/driving.

His conviction will never be spent.

No, you're right. He will live with it every day of his life, however, in the eyes of the law it will be spent.

 

[Ron Manager]

Had this very discussion with a number of other fans of different clubs. General consensus was that he has a right to ply his trade once he'd served his sentence but none of us wanted him at 'our' club.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

If he was a police officer would he be back in the police force ? As I said above there is plenty of ways he can earn a living.

It is a highly emotive matter and one that will divide supporters and bring the club bad press. Just not worth it for me.

For those who are happy to see him at Roots Hall Ill ask one more question before I retire from the debate.

If those kids parents were Southend United season ticket holders would they still want him at the club, or even playing at Roots Hall as a visiting keeper ?

If is is Jam Man..we have to argue!!

While there are plenty of ways to earn a living, if every held your view - he would never work again.

The law is the law and we are told itshould be upheld. Therefore, LM should be allowed to work hard on being a better person (of course he can never make good) and he will require to be employed in order to have the best opportunity to do whatever he can to make a positive contribution to society.

 

[alginon1]

Get your facts right. He isn't a murderer, murder is pre-meditated. He didn't plan to go out and kill those kids. He wasn't even convicted of manslaughter, it was for two counts of causing death by dangerous driving and driving with excess alcohol.

Everybody does things they regret, some worse than others. What he did was awful, but he was neither convicted of murder or manslaughter.

Yes, technically you are right however you are obviously not a parent, as far as i'm concerned anybody who gets into a car knowing they are over the limit should be classed as a murderer. I cannot begin to think how those parent feel.

I feel physically sick when that smug Bas***d, Lee Hughes, plays at RH !!!!!

 

[Beefy]

The Hughes case is different. He fled the scene, didn't report the crash to the authorities therefore leaving those people dead and dying in their car and then denied the charge at his trial. McCormick made a horrific mistake which he has shown nothing but regret for every since.

 

[ldnfatso]

Where's the option, Not Happy with signing a murderer but won't chuck ticket away?

Get your facts right. He isn't a murderer, murder is pre-meditated. He didn't plan to go out and kill those kids. He wasn't even convicted of manslaughter, it was for two counts of causing death by dangerous driving and driving with excess alcohol.

Everybody does things they regret, some worse than others. What he did was awful, but he was neither convicted of murder or manslaughter.

Well, i pray it never happen to your kids!

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

There's all this debate about McCormick, and people seem to be repeating that, through his actions, he's somehow lost the right to continue in his chosen profession as he is in the public eye and there's a chance (slim, imho) that children will idolise him.

How does that apply then to pop stars, film stars and celebrities who have been in a similar boat? I really can't be bothered to check but I'm sure there are plenty of people in the public eye who've committed criminal acts who've gone on to be idolised by many more people than are ever likely to idolise Luke McCormick. As I've said elsewhere, to deny McCormick employment in his chosen profession after his conviction is spent is discrimination. I don't believe any football player's contract would contain a clause in the same way that a surgeon's would about turning up drunk, and even if a player did turn up drunk then that would be down to the player's club to deal with as they see fit and within the terms of employment. That's not what happened in this instance.

I'd prefer McCormick to go elsewhere for his rehabilitation, but if anyone is going to be able to support him through this, then it's a manager who knows him well, and for whom, presumably, he has respect. Again, as I've said elsewhere, McCormick needs to be fully involved in making the error of ways clear to others and, wherever he ends up, I would hope he will be a relatively high profile presence in any campaign against drink/driving.


No, you're right. He will live with it every day of his life, however, in the eyes of the law it will be spent.

Check your facts please, OBL.

A conviction which results in a prison sentence of more than 30 months is never spent in the eyes of the law and must be disclosed if required!