What is hacking you off today?

[Uncle Leo]

Lights is a different issue , that's a legal requirement, but there are more dark cars than cyclists in dark clothing and they are allowed out at night.

I can understand the sentiment of "Why wouldn't you want to be as visible as possible ?" but if that was the case we would all be driving bright dayglo cars and walking round in hi - viz wouldn't we ?

Well I guess...but driving in a car, I'm rather more likely to be seen by a lorry less than someone on a bicycle and rather less likely to be hit. But I'll ask about day-glo options when I get my new one in the spring :smile:

On the other hand, it is amazing how often you see cars not using their lights when the light is fading or worse.

Incidentally, in Estonia, where the winter nights are very long, pedestrians are required to wear something reflective on their clothing at certain times of year. A bit like the advice we used to get as kids about walking home from school in the winter months...

 

[Mad Cyril]

I don't wear Hi Viz but have a reflective rucksack cover.

Most of my cycling is off road mountain biking and my front light is as powerful as a car headlight. I have to turn it right down on the roads.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

********. Gives the rest a bad name.

I am staggered with the number of peoplewomen I see listening to music though headphones, no helmet, no Hi-Vis, no lightswearing short skirts, low cut tops, slightly tipsy and flirting with men whilst cyclingout at night. They're just asking to be splatteredraped?.

I think Firestorm has beaten me to it, but you're better than this sort of victim blaming MK.


(although you have a point re lights if it was dark)

 

[Benfleet A1]

as only one of those 4 is illegal why are you staggered ?

Hi Viz is known not to work and pedestrians are not expected to wear it, Helmets are tested to a very low standard yet there is an expectation that cyclists should where it yet pedestrians don't need to , You can hear more external traffic noise with headphones on than you can in a car with the widows up and a radio on.

Usual victim blaming nonsense. The number of stories I read about people not being able to see cyclists yet go on to describe what they were wearing etc, is amazing, I thought you couldn't see them.

Its the duty of someone driving a motor vehicle to drive within the limits of their capabilities and that included vision . If someone cant see other road users then they are not driving within their capabilities.

When you get your HGV you come back and tell me whats right and wrong then. It was still dark when the dick cut across me.

 

[Firestorm]

Well I guess...but driving in a car, I'm rather more likely to be seen by a lorry less than someone on a bicycle and rather less likely to be hit. But I'll ask about day-glo options when I get my new one in the spring :smile:

On the other hand, it is amazing how often you see cars not using their lights when the light is fading or worse.

Incidentally, in Estonia, where the winter nights are very long, pedestrians are required to wear something reflective on their clothing at certain times of year. A bit like the advice we used to get as kids about walking home from school in the winter months...

Wear something white at night iirc.

Yeah I have a bit of a thing at the minute, 100's of people get killed annually by people not driving properly , yet the biggest gripe on the road is cyclists not wearing a yellow vest.

There was a survey (albeit a very small sample) published today where 54% said that Bikes should have number plates.

That will stop people turning left across them ....

Preventable deaths , start with the highest number and reduce that for the big wins....If they are considered to be acceptable "Collateral damage" and not worth upsetting the applecart over , then the powers that be should come out and publically say this so that Joe public can doe something to protect themselves , whether its voting in someone who does care, or taking action themselves (Hi viz , helmets etc , be it whilst walking, cycling or driving)

 

[Firestorm]

When you get your HGV you come back and tell me whats right and wrong then. It was still dark when the dick cut across me.

Sorry, what is having an HGV licence got to do with it .

He cut across you, I assume you were paying significant attention to have seen him approaching to work out he was cutting across you , notice what he was wearing and that he didn't have any lights on. that sounds fine to me. Standard driving practice being aware of your surroundings, its not limited to being able to drive a big lorry.
Cyclists and motorcyclists are probable more aware of their surroundings , Car drivers don't have to worry about overbanding , slippery white lines or manhole covers generally ,

 

[Firestorm]

I don't wear Hi Viz but have a reflective rucksack cover.

Most of my cycling is off road mountain biking and my front light is as powerful as a car headlight. I have to turn it right down on the roads.

that's to see , not to be seen, though

 

[MK Shrimper]

I think Firestorm has beaten me to it, but you're better than this sort of victim blaming MK.


(although you have a point re lights if it was dark)

Oh come on, it's an entirely different thing. You're going out on a road where some people are inconsiderate or just plain bad drivers. The onus on cyclists is to be aware of your surroundings an be seen. You cannot defend a cyclist who, in the middle of winter on a country road where there is no, or very little illumination, not to have (at least) reflective clothing and suitable lights on their bike. It is also the responsibility of the driver to ensure their car is suitable for the conditions and that they drive responsibly.

In many NR depots, there's often a sticker on the bathroom mirrors that say "This is the person responsible for your safety".

 

[Firestorm]

Oh come on, it's an entirely different thing. You're going out on a road where some people are inconsiderate or just plain bad drivers. The onus on cyclists is to be aware of your surroundings an be seen. You cannot defend a cyclist who, in the middle of winter on a country road where there is no, or very little illumination, not to have (at least) reflective clothing and suitable lights on their bike. It is also the responsibility of the driver to ensure their car is suitable for the conditions and that they drive responsibly.

In many NR depots, there's often a sticker on the bathroom mirrors that say "This is the person responsible for your safety".

Yet a cyclist gets jailed and the Daily Mail goes into meltdown when a woman , on the phone steps out into a 30mph limit road without looking and gets hit by a bike doing 18mph. Sure there was fault for only having one working brake...

I saw no mention whether she had been wearing a helmet or hi Viz

 

[Mad Cyril]

that's to see , not to be seen, though

Dark means danger.

So get yourself seeeeeeen

At night

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Oh come on, it's an entirely different thing. You're going out on a road where some people are inconsiderate or just plain bad drivers. The onus on cyclists is to be aware of your surroundings an be seen. You cannot defend a cyclist who, in the middle of winter on a country road where there is no, or very little illumination, not to have (at least) reflective clothing and suitable lights on their bike. It is also the responsibility of the driver to ensure their car is suitable for the conditions and that they drive responsibly.

In many NR depots, there's often a sticker on the bathroom mirrors that say "This is the person responsible for your safety".

Come off it, Camberwell High Street is hardly a country road and I've already said that if it was dark they should have lights.

What does wearing a helmet have to do with being aware of your surroundings?

Is it ok for car drivers to listen to music whilst they drive?

There are ways to minimise the risk of being raped but it's not the responsibility of the victim to stop a rapist raping, despite what you may have read recently about Harvey Weinstein being the fault of his victims not speaking out.

 

[RobM]

Round here we get bunches of boozed up kids at night, cycling all over the road (both sides) doing wheelies with absolutely no light/reflectors or anything. Street lighting is patchy if at all. As mentioned above, take responsibility for your own safety. After all, if I drive at night with no lights and get driven into, I can't have a great deal of defence.

 

[Firestorm]

Round here we get bunches of boozed up kids at night, cycling all over the road (both sides) doing wheelies with absolutely no light/reflectors or anything. Street lighting is patchy if at all. As mentioned above, take responsibility for your own safety. After all, if I drive at night with no lights and get driven into, I can't have a great deal of defence.

We were talking cyclists though, not prats riding nicked bikes . I am sure drivers like Al wouldn't take too kindly to being compared to P***d up kids in Corsas "down lakeside"

 

[RobM]

I'm making no comparisons. I'm just saying that anyone on the road needs to be visible.

 

[Firestorm]

I'm making no comparisons. I'm just saying that anyone on the road needs to be visible.

Not if you have nicked the vehicle........

 

[Benfleet A1]

Sorry, what is having an HGV licence got to do with it .

He cut across you, I assume you were paying significant attention to have seen him approaching to work out he was cutting across you , notice what he was wearing and that he didn't have any lights on. that sounds fine to me. Standard driving practice being aware of your surroundings, its not limited to being able to drive a big lorry.
Cyclists and motorcyclists are probable more aware of their surroundings , Car drivers don't have to worry about overbanding , slippery white lines or manhole covers generally ,

What part of he had no lights and it was dark don't you get? If I wasn't aware and alert the dick would have been under my front offside wheel. He cut around me while I was pulling away from a light on the right hand side, then he tacked up the road in front of me, middle finger in the air acting the prick and laughed as I went by. You tell me, who was in the wrong.

5 years, if I had run over the ****, 5 years I could have been facing all because he fancied playing chicken or whatever he thought he was doing with a ****ing big lorry that was driving perfectly legally.

I

 

[Firestorm]

I think you misunderstood. Never condoned no lights ans said that you were aware of the surroundings to have spotted him.
Thus avoiding a collision. Just out of interest , what difference to the situation would a helmet or high viz have made. Sounds like him being an absolute prat was more the issue than anything he was or wasnt wearing.

 

[Benfleet A1]

I think you misunderstood. Never condoned no lights ans said that you were aware of the surroundings to have spotted him.
Thus avoiding a collision. Just out of interest , what difference to the situation would a helmet or high viz have made. Sounds like him being an absolute prat was more the issue than anything he was or wasnt wearing.

Probably nothing in this case but give drivers half a chance of seeing you. Hi- Viz does make a difference by the way, it really does.

Look, there are plenty of idiot lorry drivers out there but the only time a lorry driver gets hurt is if they hit or are hit by another lorry. Cyclists are more vunerable simply because of the mode of transport. I could have killed that prick this morning and contray to popular opinion, I have a concious. He would be in the ground probably with his middle finger still raised and a manic laugh frozen in time. I and my family would have to live with that for the rest of our lifes. No thanks.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

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Probably nothing in this case but give drivers half a chance of seeing you. Hi- Viz does make a difference by the way, it really does.

Look, there are plenty of idiot lorry drivers out there but the only time a lorry driver gets hurt is if they hit or are hit by another lorry. Cyclists are more vunerable simply because of the mode of transport. I could have killed that prick this morning and contray to popular opinion, I have a concious. He would be in the ground probably with his middle finger still raised and a manic laugh frozen in time. I and my family would have to live with that for the rest of our lifes. No thanks.

Your post minds me of a man I used to know who WAS a train driver until a man stood in front of his train. The train driver was destroyed mentally and turned to booze and reclusion. Very very sad; the consequences far out "lived" a simple selfish suicidal act.

 

[Uncle Leo]

The free beer is Bud Light.