What can we really do?

[TrueBlue]

Most things that have gone on over the last few years have all be routed back to one man that's Ron Martin and his hold over our football club, but what seriously can you do?

It just seems for me and our supporter base is not up for the fight and has been turned away from coming to games and we have slowly been bled to death with Ron and his effective usage of spin to divide and conquer.

I know of so many fans who use to go week in week out that don't any more, we can't always blame the recession because I know much of the reason was down again to one man Ron Martin, people simply refuse to put their money into watching the club while he is here.

It just seems its one thing after another and time and time again we sit back and take the **** only this week we find out we have potentially missed out on a half decent player because of our embargo and what do we do? Accept it, we shrug our shoulders and look at each other and say what can we do?

I don't have the answers but there must be something we can do, protests turned into a slagging match and walkouts will make a situation potentially fatal.

There is no god given right that a rebirth of SUFC down the leagues in the form of a Phoenix club will work you only have to look at how long it's taken Aldershot to return and the same with Accrington we have not seen Maidstone since! And as for FC united of Manchester with all there 3k who turn up every week at Gigg Lane who sell more tickets then bury do for their home games are still trying to get into the conference and seem to have hit a ceiling.

Maybe a rebirth is the way to go but would that not just be accepting our club has been hijacked and given up on all the shirts you have purchased, scarfs, tops everything branded for the club you love goes out the window and that includes Roots Hall.

Ron won't go until he has a return on his investment and it will take somebody with clout to buy this circus off him that I feel is our best case, we have had word of a consortium before but even this proves you have a few people with little clout clubbing together and I feel that itself could be a recipe for disaster with power sharing struggles afoot.

As I said at the start if this post I don't have the answers but we just don't seem to have the fight in us, we seem deflated and defeated we have the Trust and SUISA both good organisations but neither are taking the lead on this at the moment for me in my own opinion on what's going on, do I blame them? Yes and no,

Yes? Well I don't feel we have had any real pressure as yet from either party and I think being to close to the club has been been a real issue here, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, I think one of the above organisations should be the bad cop in all this but what it seems is that we have is to organisations with the same political persuasion.

No? I can see the dilemma though the Trust and more recently founded SUISA are going through, these two set ups are run by true SUFC fans and that for me has never been in doubt and if feel for the position we/they are in having to pull funding and/or support for the club is not an easy thing to do when all you want to do is do the nobel thing and turn this all around.

In all the situation is a very very difficult one where you have a labour of love that has an owner who has to succeed for the club to.

This begs the question do you support the problem and turn it into a solution and activate Ron's exit strategy? OR do we become instrumental in his downfall with potentially ending over 100 years of SUFC?

Don't make this a Ron is a **** thread I am looking for sensible debate her and maybe some direction for us at the end of this.

Lastly don't let us be known as the club who's fans let it sleepwalked into oblivion

 

[chelmo]

I like u views here I wouldent want the club to start again as u say look how many clubs have gone and not seen again but what can we do we need someone with deep pockets to come in and I cant see that anytime soon rm knows this that's why he plays his game with us

 

[Firestorm]

1 Identify the problems (and I mean the specific problem not just RM )
2 discuss how that specific problems could be resolved
3 Identify people who would be able to implement the solution, timescales, costs etc

What is the problem causing most frustration ?
The financial situation at SUFC ltd , the poor form on the pitch something else ?

 

[RHB]

t

1 Identify the problems (and I mean the specific problem not just RM )
2 discuss how that specific problems could be resolved
3 Identify people who would be able to implement the solution, timescales, costs etc

What is the problem causing most frustration ?
The financial situation at SUFC ltd , the poor form on the pitch something else ?

1.Not enough money coming into the club to meet the outgoings and debts 2&3. Find investors with sufficient resources to put money into the club. People that have the good of the club high up their list of priorities. The problem causing most frustration is far more difficult. It depends on your views on life. For me the problem causing most frustration is results on the pitch. For others it will be something else, I guess. Again, it comes down to money, more investment, better players, better results. So...............the really big question for me is where does an investor come from? If I knew the answer to that one, seriously, the rest would fall into place, eventually.

 

[Ramsdenblue]

Ill always be supporting SUFC no matter what, through thick and thin! Maybe we should use this to bring all SUFC fans together, one match at home we should completely decorate w block in flags and partying, show were having a good time and bring others together, or maybe a match protest with banners saying 'ron out' or something like that, not completely sing songs about him all game because we want to get behind the lads, celebrations will roar as the Ron has left and we are out of our economic predicament!!!! :winking: Well that's what I hope

Posted by jr ramsdenblue

 

[SARF]

What can be done. Er not a lot
No one going. We are in the top four or five ave attendances for this league I think
What will help. Three league wins on the spin. Problem solved. Till the next 5-2 defeat

 

[KiwiRob]

I know it is stating the obvious but Southend need a Jack Walker figure. That is, someone who loves the club, has very deep pockets, and is not looking to invest in the club as a money making venture. Is there such a person in the town?

 

[Jam_Man]

Great balanced post TB, much better than just saying "lets protest!" which does nothing and just looks like a tantrum.

It certainly is a difficult one as the reality is there is not an easy fix because Ron Martin cant afford to run the club yet is stuck here. IF it was just a case of having an owner unable to run the club then a protest might actually get the ball rolling but Ron is so far in financially he couldnt walk away if he wanted to.

Firestorm is right people need to identify exactly what is wrong and then come up with objectives and targets to improve it.

'Ron Out' is not an achievable objective however much we want it.

 

[Jam_Man]

t

1.Not enough money coming into the club to meet the outgoings and debts 2&3. Find investors with sufficient resources to put money into the club. People that have the good of the club high up their list of priorities. The problem causing most frustration is far more difficult. It depends on your views on life. For me the problem causing most frustration is results on the pitch. For others it will be something else, I guess. Again, it comes down to money, more investment, better players, better results. So...............the really big question for me is where does an investor come from? If I knew the answer to that one, seriously, the rest would fall into place, eventually.

The problem as I see it is that it doesnt really matter how many we get in the door at the moment. Whilst doubling our attendances would obviously help with cash flow we saw in April that we could bring in 300,000 in one swoop and yet a month later wages werent being paid.

Who really would want to come in just to through money into the black hole ?

What would be nice would be for Ron to sell SUFC and retain the rest, someone may come in and be able to run the football club.

However that then leaves a scenario of Ron owning the stadium and being able to then charge us and he would have less reason to waive rents etc.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

I think a protest against the mismanagement of the club's finances is the only thing we can do.

It's worked for other clubs in the past. I posted a while back that the fan power of Swansea forced their previous chairman to sell. If they did nothing as we have done over the last few years they would of no doubt of gone out the football league. Fan power is not to be underestimated. If he made it public to say the club was up for sale then maybe it would attract investors.

 

[Jam_Man]

What was Swansea's situation at the time?

How much debt? How much was it sold for? Was this before or after the liberty was built?

What might happen for other clubs may not apply to us because of the stadium project. There would have to be serious money changing hands for Ron to be able to even break even at the moment.

 

[Fairport]

I think a protest against the mismanagement of the club's finances is the only thing we can do.

It's worked for other clubs in the past. I posted a while back that the fan power of Swansea forced their previous chairman to sell. If they did nothing as we have done over the last few years they would of no doubt of gone out the football league. Fan power is not to be underestimated. If he made it public to say the club was up for sale then maybe it would attract investors.

Agree with you, as you say, the fans at Swansea organised themselves with marches, meetings in the town centre etc. Other fan bases like Portsmouth have also got together and helped force change. Although there have been a few clubs who have gone to the wall the vast majority who have been in administration or similar have been bailed out. Some of these by wealthy individuals or consortia. others involved fans groups. Not all of these benefactors are in it just to make a profit or asset strip. I would think the current players and management would not be against fans protesting, after all, they have had to put up with late payment of wages, embargoes etc. I am sure they would enjoy seeing Ron Martin receiving some grief.

 

[Jam_Man]

Agree with you, as you say, the fans at Swansea organised themselves with marches, meetings in the town centre etc. Other fan bases like Portsmouth have also got together and helped force change. Although there have been a few clubs who have gone to the wall the vast majority who have been in administration or similar have been bailed out. Some of these by wealthy individuals or consortia. others involved fans groups. Not all of these benefactors are in it just to make a profit or asset strip. I would think the current players and management would not be against fans protesting, after all, they have had to put up with late payment of wages, embargoes etc. I am sure they would enjoy seeing Ron Martin receiving some grief.

Again, different circumstances may mean it was easier to do.

Lets look at Portsmouth, they had to get around 4 million together to buy Fratton Park which is a remarkable achievement.

What would we have to do to buy our stadium ? Theres already a 10 million debt to pay off and thats before you even start looking at what other money is needed to get the stadium done.

So already we are looking at having to spend far more than Portsmouth did to buy a smaller club.

Not only do we need to convince Ron that selling is the thing to do but find someone willing to invest far more than you would expect at this level.

 

[fbm]

Best post I've ever seen from you TB!

I think as fans we have to have more realistic expectations.

The club has been around for over 100 years and I have been supporting it for 44 of them. The first 60-odd years of it's existence was fairly non-eventful with no promotions, cup wins or achievements of note. The whole period was punctuated by 2 World Wars and 3 ground moves; Roots Hall to the Kursaal, then the Greyhound Stadium and finally back to Roots Hall.

That was it really and many other professional small clubs had similar existences as there weren't the competitions to enter or the money to earn. There were specific rules about finances relating to club owners and directors and generally players were the poorly paid pawns who failed to earn enough to support them through their old age. Entrance fees to watch football was cheap by comparison to today. Attendances were huge, especially at the bigger clubs and there was very little in comparison to today's costs to spend the money on really. Grounds were rarely maintained, there was a completely different transfer system to the one that operates now, there was no health and safety compliance, minimal insurance, players were paid a pittance... rather than ask "Where is the Eastwood money?" perhaps the question should be "Where did all the money go back in those days?".

But times move on and the game has changed. The only thing that hasn't is our fans love of our team, the one we were encouraged or who we chose to support, and if you get bitten by the football bug then the effect it has on you is indescribable. Essentially, we all get worked up and passionate about nothing more than a game. We are talking about a game that causes violence between fans for no other reason than they wear another clubs colours. A game that can reduce a hardened, grown man to tears because someone scores (or misses) a penalty. A game that produces an effect which can make or break human relationships and a game that, when the national team get a sniff of anything approaching getting near a major tournament final, brings the entire country to a standstill.

And this is before we factor in the Premier League; the brainchild of the rich clubs back in the late 1980's and early 90's. Make no mistake, this was an absolute attempt to kill the game off as a professional entity for lower league teams. The initial proposals were very close to going through as a "closed shop", meaning there would be no promotion to this elite league. Once you were in, you were in. Luckily, that motion was defeated and so we now have the occasional jaunt into the top flight of clubs with no real pedigree, history or fan base, and that not will support such a journey. In truth, unless you can guarantee 30,000 plus crowds every week, then as a club in the PL you are on borrowed time. But one season, just one season up there, would provide a lower league side with sufficient money to continue to support itself for many years to come... PROVIDED they didn't try to compete, accepted that this jaunt was a financial one and the inevitability would be that they would almost certainly be relegated back down the leagues again (and probably quite quickly).

As for our beloved SUFC, the last 40 years has seen us achieve everything we have done with more achievements and trophies won in the Tilson/Brush era than the rest of our entire history added together. The club has nearly been bankrupted before, mainly in the name of progress by trying to spend our way up the leagues and once at the hands of a crook. But clubs are not owned generally by fans; they are owned by men who have huge egos and with not only a passion for kudos and publicity but also usually with an agenda to make a lot of money in the process.

That money can come through success on the pitch (look at the millions PL clubs spend to try and get into the Champions League) or it may come from good marketing and sponsorship of a brand that achieves fanatical exposure to tens of thousands of people every week. Or, in the case of the clubs that attract the poorest support, then it can come from selling off the land.

And that, people, is where we are.

The damage to the club was done in the 1980's and we have never recovered. We have had flirtations with the higher leagues but have generally far exceeded our budget in trying to stay there. Vic Jobson saved the club from going under yet became public enemy number 1 over time. Yet there was a man who worked 15 hours a day for the club. He was content to have people believe what they wanted to believe; their opinions either way were of no concern to him. He was a property developer and his dream was one similar to what we are trying to achieve at Fossets.

Ron Martin then saved the club at a time when again it could have gone under. Initially he was seen as a hero with messages of thanks filling up threads on this very forum. When the development didn't happen he fought tooth and nail to keep hold of the deal and he is still in that position today. As I have said on numerous occasions before, we are in a much better position than many other clubs; we have never been in administration, we have never ground shared, we have never been into the Conference. Perhaps all of those things should have happened. But they haven't, we are where we are and the "Woulda Shoulda Coulda" argument is, quite frankly, pointless.

So where do we go from here, and apologies for the ramble, but TB asks what can be done.

In my opinion, naff all actually. At least not until Ron has either died, given up or the club has gone bust. The first option is a roaring certainty but that could be in 40 years time. The second is, in my opinion, as uncertain as death is certain. Ron has stuck so much into this then he will be around for a long, long time. Get used to it. There is then the 3rd option and that is a possibility that - to be honest - I don't particularly want to contemplate. I certainly will be no part of any action designed to bring the clubs downfall just to get Ron out. I would have more appetite for the support of a Phoenix Club but that would be dependent on many other factors and by then I may have just given up on football altogether. I love the game and hate the sport. If it wasn't for SUFC I probably wouldn't even watch it, it is just a business that is so screwed up and corrupt from top to bottom. I cannot stand it and I think the money paid in the PL to players is obscene. I think this is partly a ploy to ensure that the smaller clubs either go under, or become amateur or semi-professional concerns that stand less chance of gate crashing the PL party and embarrassing the big clubs - remember the original PL objective of no promotions? - and I think that there is a level of inevitability of something very, very bad happening within the game in the next few years.

In the meantime, as fans of Southend United, what we CAN do is not give up on our team, let's support the players we do have that are willing to play for us, even if they aren't the best players we've ever had and make sure we all purchase club merchandise to get as much cash into the club as possible. Then we stand a better chance of getting the embargo lifted.

Unfortunately, following the response to my thread a few months back about fans giving the club a one off £30 (less than 50% would I seem to recall) I don't think that's likely. It's a shame there is so much vitriol against RM as it clouds otherwise reasonable judgement.

I guess the question is - unconditionally - "Do we want to see SUFC survive and do well?" If the answer is yes, then let's dig deep and get behind the team, because that's all we can do. If the answer to that is no, or if there is a condition, such as "As long as Ron Martin isn't in charge", then all those people will be playing a key part in our downfall but will be refusing to admit it.

You heard it here first.

 

[chapperzUK]

Top post fbm!!

Sadly, until Fossetts Farm is built (or at least 3 sides) and Sainsburys can move us out of Roots Hall, I can't see Ron budging one bit.

What happens when (or if) this happens is anyone's guess. Funding for the 4th stand and the hotel will be extremely tricky and as said before, unless a big investor is interested and not looking for a quick return then we are stuck in this position.

While this is happening all we can do is to do what we should do, support the team.

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

Ok, some good points made, and a good debate from TB.

As I see it, our fan base is neither big enough or strong enough for any of the following to happen:

1) Do a Portsmout and buy the club.
2) Resurect a dead SUFC from the flames - I genuinely believe that if went out of business, we would not come roaring back like Wimbledon did.

It concerns me that being in League 2, that if we had a disaster season where the players weren't paid again and we fell into non league that would be game over. So however cliche it is, we have to support the team as much we can to try and get into league 1 - not only to increase revenue streams, but so we have league 2 to fall back on.

I appreciate fans who are annoyed with Ron, but saying they won't go to games again until he has gone, doesn't make any sense to me, it is just helping to kill the club. Do they really think it will make him leave?

 

[shrimperton]

I need to win the lottery then I would buy the club & turn us into champions league winners with a brand spanking new stadium with David Beckham as manager, I say Beckham cos wherever he goes ££££££££ s soon follow!!

Now I just need to raise £2 to buy a ticket!!!

 

[fbm]

The trouble with buying the club is that first Ron has to agree to sell. But what would he sell? There are a number of interwoven concerns that make up the sum of the parts of SUFC and even if he was a willing seller, the DD would be enormous and probably unlikely to result in something anyone would want to buy. The bit we would want is the bit he won't sell. If the Blue Knights with a reported £150m couldn't tempt him, I doubt that even 3 shrimpers fans co-incidentally winning successive lottery rollover jackpots and pooling resources would do the trick.

 

[TrueBlue]

The trouble with buying the club is that first Ron has to agree to sell. But what would he sell? There are a number of interwoven concerns that make up the sum of the parts of SUFC and even if he was a willing seller, the DD would be enormous and probably unlikely to result in something anyone would want to buy. The bit we would want is the bit he won't sell. If the Blue Knights with a reported £150m couldn't tempt him, I doubt that even 3 shrimpers fans co-incidentally winning successive lottery rollover jackpots and pooling resources would do the trick.

Blue knights as in consortium?? They had 150m???

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

I am sure they would enjoy seeing Ron Martin receiving some grief.

I used to speak to Simon Francis and he said the team were very happy that the supporters protested that time. This is from one of the players who stuck with us and carried on trying till it was out of control. If only that was a start to a bigger protest we could of possibly be in a different situation now.