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- Thread starter C C Csiders
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hexagon_sun
Manager
But homophobia is fine?[b said:
hexagon_sun
Manager
[b said:Quote[/b] (CS J @ Sep. 03 2006,19:41)]and wheres that?[b said:Quote[/b] (hexagon_sun @ Sep. 03 2006,19:30)]But homophobia is fine?[b said:
And if you don't regard that as a homophobic comment then I suggest that you also have some dubious views regarding the equality of people with a different sexual orientation than yourself. The difference is, most people are content with keeping those views away from a public forum.[b said:
McNasty
Member
HS is it the word "poof" you object to, or ORM's opinion that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry etc that you do not like ?[b said:Quote[/b] (hexagon_sun @ Sep. 03 2006,19:46)][b said:Quote[/b] (CS J @ Sep. 03 2006,19:41)]and wheres that?[b said:Quote[/b] (hexagon_sun @ Sep. 03 2006,19:30)]But homophobia is fine?[b said:And if you don't regard that as a homophobic comment then I suggest that you also have some dubious views regarding the equality of people with a different sexual orientation than yourself. The difference is, most people are content with keeping those views away from a public forum.[b said:
hexagon_sun
Manager
Both, although it's actually more the double standards at play; 'poof' is clearly a derogatory term, not a particularly vicious one I grant you but neither is 'darky' yet it still would not be permitted. I also think that to state gays shouldn't be allowed the basic freedoms that heterosexuals enjoy is something that shouldn't be allowed here (as we are often reminded, this is a public forum open to any and everybody). If it had been a certain ethnic group ORM had been referring to then again, I assume he'd have been pulled up on the comment but because he's talking about a group of people who are almost totally unrepresented by both fans and players of the sport we all love (almost to the point of stigma), it goes unchallenged. I'd be neglecting my vehement belief in personal freedom if I wasn't the one to challenge it.[b said:
tomasufc 4eva
First XI
Presumably ORM bases his opinion on the fact that a child may not be raised as well with two fathers than with a father and a mother so he is thinking more of the children that are being adopted than trying to spite the homosexuals.[b said:
I'm not speaking for ORM in this post, just what I think...
sufcintheprem
This is a modified caption
I love the number of times that people have written "I don't want to go in to this" on here. Well, I don't actually. personally, I'd like to see more reasoning and discussion. I'll try and keep this brief for the sole reason that I tend to go off on a tangent when I write more than about 500 words.
In terms of my political orientation, I'm so sickeningly middle of the road, it's a joke. When it comes to football, I don't mind blasting out some view and it's reasoning to provide an 'answer'. When it comes to social issues, everything, in my on the fence view, can be argued strongly from both sides.
On the Political compass I was almost like Phil Taylor on the last dart needing fifty for the match.
However, what really annoys me is that in the past, it almost seems accepted knowledge that a lot of our perceived problems were brought about by indelible beliefs being imposed from generation to the next by constant reinforcement. For instance, one man might say that the Jews were taking all our jobs in the early 1900s. If he keeps on saying it, chances are that his son will hold the same beliefs without questioning it. Next thing, this is described as bigoted views being passed down from generation to generation and this is being set as the root of racism. To an extent it's true but by people assuming such a problem occurs is just as bad as any effect it might have caused.
It seems commonly said that we are more tolerant of other societies because we are a thinking generation. I've not seena lot of evidence for this myself. I do enjoy several liberal points of views but when I speak to people with heavily liberal views, I can't believe how little thought they have put in to these theories that define who they are as people. It's like when an unsuspecting Jehovah's Witness comes around and you actually talk to them rather than telling them to f%&k off.
Ignorance towards a strongly held belief is probably the biggest annoyance in my book. I don't really care what a lot of people think as long as they have some rationale for it. I honestly think that people have become brainwashed with left-wing theories (the Daily Mail is my main charge on this one). Now, don't take my use of brainwashing out of context. When people hear the term brainwashing they assume that it is indoctrination of some questionable virtue. For all I know, these beliefs may be the answer to all humanity and a step on teh road to righteousness or wherever we are heading. The problem I have is that so few people are willing to take information on board without questioning it.
I've heard the view that RE should be dropped from the national curriculum but if anything, i think it should be promoted. I'm not really a religious person but the issues we had to address really hammered home the likelihood that there is no right answer for any of it. As soon as you appreciate that, you start to appreciate that there isn't a right and wrong on almost everything.
The whole issue of prejudice is very tricky indeed. On the one hand, I don't think it's fair in a business or legal context that one person should have some prejudged opinion because of the colour of his skin, his sexual orientation or the fact that he is actually a she. But then again, where will it stop. If I'm walking down the street late at night and see a group of ten skinheads, I'm going to be more bothered than seeing ten lads with shoulder length rockstar style hair. That's prejudicial but why should I beat myself up for thinking that? (Particularly when there may be ten/twenty people about to do it anyway!)
No, I don't think it's fair to judge people on the colour of their skin or their race but then how exactly do you stop this psychological mechanism when your brain automatically associates expectations of behaviour from past events?
Finally, and unrelated really, if a boy goes to school and he has two dads, he will get an absolute roasting in the playground. I know that and my school certainly couldn't be considered rough. I wouldn't want any kid to go through that. Should we start up kids with gay parenting schools?
In terms of my political orientation, I'm so sickeningly middle of the road, it's a joke. When it comes to football, I don't mind blasting out some view and it's reasoning to provide an 'answer'. When it comes to social issues, everything, in my on the fence view, can be argued strongly from both sides.
On the Political compass I was almost like Phil Taylor on the last dart needing fifty for the match.
However, what really annoys me is that in the past, it almost seems accepted knowledge that a lot of our perceived problems were brought about by indelible beliefs being imposed from generation to the next by constant reinforcement. For instance, one man might say that the Jews were taking all our jobs in the early 1900s. If he keeps on saying it, chances are that his son will hold the same beliefs without questioning it. Next thing, this is described as bigoted views being passed down from generation to generation and this is being set as the root of racism. To an extent it's true but by people assuming such a problem occurs is just as bad as any effect it might have caused.
It seems commonly said that we are more tolerant of other societies because we are a thinking generation. I've not seena lot of evidence for this myself. I do enjoy several liberal points of views but when I speak to people with heavily liberal views, I can't believe how little thought they have put in to these theories that define who they are as people. It's like when an unsuspecting Jehovah's Witness comes around and you actually talk to them rather than telling them to f%&k off.
Ignorance towards a strongly held belief is probably the biggest annoyance in my book. I don't really care what a lot of people think as long as they have some rationale for it. I honestly think that people have become brainwashed with left-wing theories (the Daily Mail is my main charge on this one). Now, don't take my use of brainwashing out of context. When people hear the term brainwashing they assume that it is indoctrination of some questionable virtue. For all I know, these beliefs may be the answer to all humanity and a step on teh road to righteousness or wherever we are heading. The problem I have is that so few people are willing to take information on board without questioning it.
I've heard the view that RE should be dropped from the national curriculum but if anything, i think it should be promoted. I'm not really a religious person but the issues we had to address really hammered home the likelihood that there is no right answer for any of it. As soon as you appreciate that, you start to appreciate that there isn't a right and wrong on almost everything.
The whole issue of prejudice is very tricky indeed. On the one hand, I don't think it's fair in a business or legal context that one person should have some prejudged opinion because of the colour of his skin, his sexual orientation or the fact that he is actually a she. But then again, where will it stop. If I'm walking down the street late at night and see a group of ten skinheads, I'm going to be more bothered than seeing ten lads with shoulder length rockstar style hair. That's prejudicial but why should I beat myself up for thinking that? (Particularly when there may be ten/twenty people about to do it anyway!)
No, I don't think it's fair to judge people on the colour of their skin or their race but then how exactly do you stop this psychological mechanism when your brain automatically associates expectations of behaviour from past events?
Finally, and unrelated really, if a boy goes to school and he has two dads, he will get an absolute roasting in the playground. I know that and my school certainly couldn't be considered rough. I wouldn't want any kid to go through that. Should we start up kids with gay parenting schools?
sufcintheprem
This is a modified caption
Oh, also, ORM definitely didn't say anything racist as far as I could see. Seemed people were alluding to that. If people were using at as a comparable example to homophobia then no worries.
Secondly, OneDreweBroughton's post was almost entirely, if not entirely tongue in cheek. Does read like a thinly veiled criticism which is a shame because so far no-one chose to use sarcasm to make a point but then I do think ODB's posts are becoming one of my favourite parts of SZ.
Finally, this thread is one of the reasons why The Pub is DEFINITELY the best forum on SZ even if I do post more on the main one!
Secondly, OneDreweBroughton's post was almost entirely, if not entirely tongue in cheek. Does read like a thinly veiled criticism which is a shame because so far no-one chose to use sarcasm to make a point but then I do think ODB's posts are becoming one of my favourite parts of SZ.
Finally, this thread is one of the reasons why The Pub is DEFINITELY the best forum on SZ even if I do post more on the main one!
* ORM *
Still Loves Emma Bunton. Roy McDonough is God!
Not too far from the truth.[b said:
ORM simply doesn't believe that a 'progressive 21st century' can involve raising children in a homosexual environment. It doesn't matter to me how loving and suitable those "parents" might be. To argue that there are thousands of awful hetrosexual parents isn't the issue. To embrace homosexuality flies in the face of simple biology.
ORM is also sick to the back teeth with homosexuality being portrayed as acceptable in the media. I do not wish to have my children subjected to material that certain members of society seem to think is acceptable on mainstream TV long before the watershed. I have absolutely no problem with people that choose to conduct their life in this fashion. I'd much prefer that they did it in the comfort of their own homes.
Now concerning whether or not the terms I used were derogotary or not. I am on the receiving end (not unsurprisingly) of derogatory comments all day long. I have no protective curtain to hide behind nor do I wish to seek one and I certainly wouldn't wish for others to be fighting the cause on my behalf.
I suspect that I'm part of the silent majority that is sick to the back teeth with political correctness in this country. The list of things we cannot do has led to a society that has few morals and worse still, limited ability to deal with those that trangress. For the avoidance of doubt I'm widening the scope of this way beyond promotion of sexuality and looking at a country treading a very fine line on so many issues. Unfortunately when it comes to elections we have nobody fighting our cause.
It's very easy to see why the BNP is rising in prominence in recent times. I suspect that the vast majority of voters wouldn't consider themselves overtly racist. The BNP is the only outlet they have for their feelings. UKIP isn't an option for these people. I suspect your average BNP voter in Burnley has no affinity with upper middle class toffs from down South.
I'm not sure I've made my points as clearly as I would have liked. I'm sorry if some people are offended by my views but I'm very pleased that we're able to debate this in a sensible and unmoderated manner.
Kent Shrimper
Mike Reid
i actually agree with ORM, and if that makes me a bad person, Que Sara.
Sebastian Weetabix
Manager
No, getting me drunk next saturday is the way forward. ORM is more than welcome to contribute.
Sebastian Weetabix
Manager
now do you want a song or not?
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