Unfulfilled promises

[Interpol Shrimper]

I'm not saying that the players would necessary be great in League One, but I think the facts (ie the players' histories) backs up Sturrock's claim that the players are League One standard, far more than they do your claim that none of them are League One standard and some would struggle in the Conference.

Ah, but you could also maybe argue from the managers history that he's at the least a Championship standard manager. I didn't see many 2nd tier clubs queueing up to employ him before he came here.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

I dont think anyone cares, Elstree. Too many people seem to be happy with just "existing" at the moment.....

Ron has been a genious in all this. Engineered a major issue for the club in not paying bills to take us through a period of complete torture and worry for the fans, and then settle the bills at the last minute making him look like some kind of cult hero.....Sad thing is, some of our fans have bought it.

There are so many question marks hanging over RM's tenure at the club, but I grew weary of posing these a long time ago.

Now I just hope and pray that we actually have a long term plan....If not, another buyer in the wings

cooooorrrr i thought you were actually serious with the first part of your post for a second.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Do you not care whether the club's future is gambled with or properly provided for, or about the way it treats people, as long as there are good performances on the pitch?

This is the biggest gripe I have at the moment... People have been very quick to accuse others of not caring about the club or doing Tilson a disservice by not acting out against RM or choosing to support Sturrock. I don't think you'll find one person on this board who vociferously condones or defends the actions of the club over the last 18 months, at best you'll find people who are willing to watch the escapade play out.

Just because some are willing to let things lie and enjoy the minor revolution happening on the pitch, doesn't mean that they're in support of RM or his actions, nor does it mean they don't care about the club or it's future... The very fact that people take the time to post their opinions here, apart from the odd Col Ewe or Brighton wanderer, should indicate the contrary.

 

[TravellingBlue]

Actually, I do wish Tilly was in charge. But that's beside the point. As much as I disagree with the decision to get rid of him (if indeed he has yet been properly got rid of) for a whole set of reasons, no one man is bigger than the club.

For me, it's the way that the fans and loyal servants (including Tilly & Brush) have been treated and continue to be treated. While the club is being run in this way, I'm not at all happy to support what's been going on and just sweep it under the carpet and turn a blind eye. Performances on the pitch are not relevant to my feeling on that. I'd continue to support as I'd done for many years if we have a bad run on the pitch if it still feels like it's my club and it is being run in a way I'm proud to support; however, when the club is being run as it is, even if we would be top of the league, I can't just ignore what's been going on and say it doesn't matter. OUR club represents what we want from it.

Do you not care whether the club's future is gambled with or properly provided for, or about the way it treats people, as long as there are good performances on the pitch?

I've got to admit you are speaking sense to me. There seems to be a complete acceptance of fans and our messageboard guru's that everything's ok now and whatever happened over the last few years doesn't matter anymore. Southend United for me was always a family club, a club that protected it's players and fans alike and we all felt like one big happy family. The way players have been treated, the way the fans have been ignored, we shouldn't just turn a blind eye or ignore it, should we? What has happened at this club, especially in recent months has been a disgrace - non payment of wages, promises to players, fossets farm on/off, Tilly/Brush sackings, 17 new players - a complete and utter joke.

 

[Local Shrimper]

I'm not sure it's a case of not caring, it's a case of moving on, moving forward, and getting on with supporting the team, and what is happening on the pitch for a change.

Everyone is aware of what went before, but I see no point in dwelling on it to be honest - what is gone, is gone.

If we look at the cold hard facts at the moment, we have in place an exceptional manager, an up and coming and highly rated Assistant, and in my eyes, a squad of players capable of challenging for a play off berth this season - Given the doom cloud that we were shrowded in at the end of last season, can we as fans really ask for more than that?

Perhaps I'm being too simplistic, but certainly on the pitch, we're in better shape than we have been for a while, and it's nice to go and watch a team each week giving it their all, and at times, playing some very easy on the eye football.

Is the biggest bug bear amongs the fans the stadium/finances, or the fact Tilly is no longer in charge?

I absolutely agree with you on this one Richard! My Uncle has followed Sturrock from his Dundee days and been nothing but impressed with the way he moved into the mangerial role with such great success. The facts are laid out before you at every club he's been at (except Soton but I would have to agree PS that the Chairman was indeed a numpty!) and as for young TW, there's no question about his abilities when you consider how he fared at Salisbury in circumstances similar to our own, he did a brilliant job! He has the infectious passion, determination and grit needed to push our guys! They'll both have their eye on RM, the budget and the football I'm sure! And I think Sturrock said in Q & A session something about building starting mid-October didn't he?

I also think we have the foundations of a great bunch of players too! They need work, but if they all have the same mental attitude as Corr displayed last week when interviewed we are on our way!

Come on you Blues!

 

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

To be fair, I said the cold hard fact was we have an exceptional manager - That's not opinion, but it's bourne out of fact, backed up by his reputation, which is backed up by his record, which is exceptionally good.

In relation to the squad, I believe I said 'in my eyes'.... as in 'in my opinion'.

I don't think Sturrock is a bad manager at this level, personally I wouldn't label him as exceptional though. His exploits in his first spell at Plymouth are well known and worthy of praise, however this spell is many years ago now. His second spell at Plymouth was not great at all, he left Plymouth languishing in a worse position in the Championship than we were during our one season in there. After this he was out of work for many months before joining Southend, an exceptional manager would've surely been snapped up earlier.

Also, although he got promoted at Swindon he took over a successful team Dennis Wise and Gus Poyet had assembled, Swindon were in a strong position when the duo left to join Leeds and Sturrock took over.

 

[Jai]

Actually, I do wish Tilly was in charge. But that's beside the point. As much as I disagree with the decision to get rid of him (if indeed he has yet been properly got rid of) for a whole set of reasons, no one man is bigger than the club.

For me, it's the way that the fans and loyal servants (including Tilly & Brush) have been treated and continue to be treated. While the club is being run in this way, I'm not at all happy to support what's been going on and just sweep it under the carpet and turn a blind eye. Performances on the pitch are not relevant to my feeling on that. I'd continue to support as I'd done for many years if we have a bad run on the pitch if it still feels like it's my club and it is being run in a way I'm proud to support; however, when the club is being run as it is, even if we would be top of the league, I can't just ignore what's been going on and say it doesn't matter. OUR club represents what we want from it.

Do you not care whether the club's future is gambled with or properly provided for, or about the way it treats people, as long as there are good performances on the pitch?

I don't think it's that people don't care how the club is being run or how it is treating people, which you rightly say is disgraceful and embarrassing. I just think we had such an awful summer of dreading what would happen to the club, the almost daily revelations about the shoddy way it is being run, the threats of winding up orders and the misinformation, that I am genuinely exhausted by it all. It got to a point where all I wanted was for a SUFC team to be competing on the pitch, just to cheer me up. And we are.

However, I am well aware that the club didn't just stop being shoddily run and treating people with alarming contempt overnight on 2nd August. We have overcome a hurdle but we are not out of the woods and the fact that there is no progress on Fossetts Farm is a huge worry.

Your points are right but it isn't apathy on the fans part, we are just tired of all the off-pitch nonsense and politics. It got to a point where last month was the first podcast we broadcast without talking about HMRC. Nine episodes in.

I am a football fan, I want to turn up on a Saturday and watch the club I love with my mates, and while we have this apparent "respite" people are welcoming the chance to talk football. And onions in the burgers of course.

We haven't forgotten that Ron screwed us, and will do so again.

 

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

Actually, I do wish Tilly was in charge. But that's beside the point. As much as I disagree with the decision to get rid of him (if indeed he has yet been properly got rid of) for a whole set of reasons, no one man is bigger than the club.

For me, it's the way that the fans and loyal servants (including Tilly & Brush) have been treated and continue to be treated. While the club is being run in this way, I'm not at all happy to support what's been going on and just sweep it under the carpet and turn a blind eye. Performances on the pitch are not relevant to my feeling on that. I'd continue to support as I'd done for many years if we have a bad run on the pitch if it still feels like it's my club and it is being run in a way I'm proud to support; however, when the club is being run as it is, even if we would be top of the league, I can't just ignore what's been going on and say it doesn't matter. OUR club represents what we want from it.

Do you not care whether the club's future is gambled with or properly provided for, or about the way it treats people, as long as there are good performances on the pitch?

Very good post, that sums up exactly how I feel.

 

[easton8]

I actually believe that most of our squad would be more suited to league 1 football than league 2. Frankly I don't care what other clubs came in for our manager, we've got him and that's all that matters. Whatever else has gone on at our club, I see a manager and a team giving their all for this club. As long as that continues I'll carry on supporting them. The chairman isn't going anywhere and I dont think I want him to go anywhere now - not saying I like whats happened I just want the club to continue or I'll have to go clothes shopping with the mrs on a Saturday.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

We haven't forgotten that Ron screwed us, and will do so again.

This should be made a tag-line of any non-official Southend United FC website, messagebaord or fanzine ;)

 

[Jai]

My mate said that Southend United at the moment is like a woman who constantly lies and cheats on you, only to sweet talk you back again. The thing is, a lot of fans have now got tired of its lies and have kicked it out of their lives for good...

 

[palexander]

I don't think Sturrock is a bad manager at this level, personally I wouldn't label him as exceptional though. His exploits in his first spell at Plymouth are well known and worthy of praise, however this spell is many years ago now. His second spell at Plymouth was not great at all, he left Plymouth languishing in a worse position in the Championship than we were during our one season in there. After this he was out of work for many months before joining Southend, an exceptional manager would've surely been snapped up earlier.

Also, although he got promoted at Swindon he took over a successful team Dennis Wise and Gus Poyet had assembled, Swindon were in a strong position when the duo left to join Leeds and Sturrock took over.

By his own admission the other night, PS said going back to Plymouth was the biggest mistake/regret in his career as the background was all politics.

Fact is he HAS had success, has great contacts, has players that want to play for him and a son with a deft touch and a rat tail. What more do you want?

 

[Local Shrimper]

I don't think Sturrock is a bad manager at this level, personally I wouldn't label him as exceptional though. His exploits in his first spell at Plymouth are well known and worthy of praise, however this spell is many years ago now. His second spell at Plymouth was not great at all, he left Plymouth languishing in a worse position in the Championship than we were during our one season in there. After this he was out of work for many months before joining Southend, an exceptional manager would've surely been snapped up earlier.

Also, although he got promoted at Swindon he took over a successful team Dennis Wise and Gus Poyet had assembled, Swindon were in a strong position when the duo left to join Leeds and Sturrock took over.

PS had decided to retire due to ill health, that's why he was out of the loop for a while.

 

[number11]

A question to Elstree, Interpol and travellingblue, ......what, specifically, have you done or are doing about the current plight that demonstrates you care more than anyone else, and what would you suggest others do? This isn't meant as a personal dig at you three, you have only been name checked as you have posted in this thread. Elstree, we have had discussions on this point in private but I find it an interesting point and hope you don't mind.

It occurs to me, as ESB alluded to, that people do care but in the absence of their being any directions as to what can be done they are content to spend their saturdays watching 11 players who, at the moment, are committed to playing for Southend and are putting in 100% effort. Focusing on matters on the pitch for a recreational pass time and on an internet board doesn't seem a heinous crime. For the people that moan at those attitudes, I would be interested to hear what you are doing, and what people should be doing to improve the situation which I am sure no one is happy with.

If those actions are actually only extending to whinging on an internet message board, than that is not really that much more productive than those you are labelling as 'not caring'.

 

[Local Shrimper]

I actually believe that most of our squad would be more suited to league 1 football than league 2. Frankly I don't care what other clubs came in for our manager, we've got him and that's all that matters. Whatever else has gone on at our club, I see a manager and a team giving their all for this club. As long as that continues I'll carry on supporting them. The chairman isn't going anywhere and I dont think I want him to go anywhere now - not saying I like whats happened I just want the club to continue or I'll have to go clothes shopping with the mrs on a Saturday.

...and that would be a travesty!

 

[united we stand]

Ron has been stupid in the past in making promises where he was not in control of all the relevant pieces of the jigsaw. This is well documented and has been brought up on numerous threads. He has now realised that he should keep his mouth shut unless he can 100% back up what he is saying --- hence IMO the silence at the moment. The one thing he does say (badly) is how complex everthing is. Peroanlly I buy this , even if I hate the way he expresses these thoughts.

As an analagy without going into massive detail my local youth football club has been trying to move grounds for over 30 years ! In essence we sell/swap a small plot in the town with planning permission and get back a plot 10 xlarger with planning permission for football pitches. In the last 5 years we have finally made significant progress , but every step has had its setbacks which no one forsaw (slow worms being a protected species was one of the delays, the council has put in demands of the developer to 'protect' the club that neither party want, and which actually leave the club and the developer both in a worse financial position). The set backs have lead to funding grants running out of time which has menat fiuther applications for funds which result in further delays. The council has called in several reviews of the planning application , residents have given the council incorrect and misleading information. Misinformation has been treated as 'fact' etc etc We are finally in a position where everything is now agreed except price (becasue the last agreement on price ran out) .

My point is that this is a small local kids football team involved in a relatively small deal (but massive to us) , so I am happy to conceed that the Roots Hall developement is far far more complex, with far more moving parts than most of us imagine.
Just becasue we don't all sign a 'I hate Ron Martin' petiition every day should not be confused with thinking that everyone is happy. I would have thought this the most obvious staement of the week

 

[Local Shrimper]

A question to Elstree, Interpol and travellingblue, ......what, specifically, have you done or are doing about the current plight that demonstrates you care more than anyone else, and what would you suggest others do? This isn't meant as a personal dig at you three, you have only been name checked as you have posted in this thread. Elstree, we have had discussions on this point in private but I find it an interesting point and hope you don't mind.

It occurs to me, as ESB alluded to, that people do care but in the absence of their being any directions as to what can be done they are content to spend their saturdays watching 11 players who, at the moment, are committed to playing for Southend and are putting in 100% effort. Focusing on matters on the pitch for a recreational pass time and on an internet board doesn't seem a heinous crime. For the people that moan at those attitudes, I would be interested to hear what you are doing, and what people should be doing to improve the situation which I am sure no one is happy with.

If those actions are actually only extending to whinging on an internet message board, than that is not really that much more productive than those you are labelling as 'not caring'.

As they say in parliament, 'Here! Here!'

 

[Local Shrimper]

By his own admission the other night, PS said going back to Plymouth was the biggest mistake/regret in his career as the background was all politics.

Fact is he HAS had success, has great contacts, has players that want to play for him and a son with a deft touch and a rat tail. What more do you want?

Yes! However, the rat tail needs to go!!

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

A question to Elstree, Interpol and travellingblue, ......what, specifically, have you done or are doing about the current plight that demonstrates you care more than anyone else, and what would you suggest others do? This isn't meant as a personal dig at you three, you have only been name checked as you have posted in this thread. Elstree, we have had discussions on this point in private but I find it an interesting point and hope you don't mind.

It occurs to me, as ESB alluded to, that people do care but in the absence of their being any directions as to what can be done they are content to spend their saturdays watching 11 players who, at the moment, are committed to playing for Southend and are putting in 100% effort. Focusing on matters on the pitch for a recreational pass time and on an internet board doesn't seem a heinous crime. For the people that moan at those attitudes, I would be interested to hear what you are doing, and what people should be doing to improve the situation which I am sure no one is happy with.

If those actions are actually only extending to whinging on an internet message board, than that is not really that much more productive than those you are labelling as 'not caring'.

Well I for one feel a lot more needed to be made of the anti-Ron protests and I know I keep coming back to this but a lot of what has happened seems to have been carefully stage-managed to minimise risk of further abuse to Ron.

His continued silence regarding settlement of what ST & PB are due is frankly sickening. If an agreed campaign of action could be put in place, I would be happy to contribute and deeply involve myself in this as much as possible, but as you understand, current geographical location, takes me a fair bit our of direct action.

I see no point in complaining direct to RM or the club as it will just be once again swept under the carept.

I see no point in clamouring for further blogs/inforation/updates from RM as he's now at a point where he's damned if he does & damed if he doesn't. People either won't beleive any word he says or external factors will come into play and render his latest piece of positive news worthless (then he'll have the backlash of people saying I told you so!)

I 100% agree with various points our learned friend from Elstree has posted above and still cannot muster any desire to be bothered by current events on the pitch. If lower to mid-table in L2 is classed as an "on-field revolution" then it's not exactly the football equivalent to thefall of the Berlin Wall now is it?

 

[EastStandBlue]

If lower to mid-table in L2 is classed as an "on-field revolution" then it's not exactly the football equivalent to thefall of the Berlin Wall now is it?

I'd say that, no matter who's to blame for it, switching from a squad of 13/14 professionals who could no longer be bothered about the club to a squad of 24 who give 100% into each performance is an "on-field revolution" worthy of note.