U.K. Justice - absolutely pathetic.

[Billy Bests boot laces]

Partners 31 year old son broke into his 82 year old grandmothers home in sept looking for money to feed his drug habit, causing £250 of damage to her front door and inner beading. This was less than 2 years since his last prison term for robbery, which he served 20 months of a 3 1/2 year sentence, and he is still 'on licence'. He was caught by the law hiding in her garden and arrested. We thought he'd get a least a 2-3 year stretch but the good old judge jailed him for 4 months!!!!. We found out last week that he has been released having served 2 months inside. Who says crime dos'nt pay?. I'd get a longer sentence for not paying my council tax or giving him a good hiding next time i see him. This countrys penal system is an absolute disgrace.

 

[steveo]

I would be happy to pay more tax if they would build more prisons and give harder and longer sentences.
Same old story though, the criminals get treated as victims and the bleeding hearts are queueing up to defend them.

This story also covers another thread we previously discussed. Make drugs legal and very cheap and the crime doesn't happen.

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

Fair comment Stevo

 

[Lord Football]

This story also covers another thread we previously discussed. Make drugs legal and very cheap and the crime doesn't happen.

At last. We agree on something.

 

[Nobby Snide]

i personally would like to see drugs on prescription..hat way they can be monitered, and any abusers have to pay higher premiums on thier life policies (assuming they have one) and only allowed to have private medical treatment.

I hate drugs and what it does to people, directly and indirectly, and by drugs I also mean tobacco and alcohol.

 

[Benfleet A1]

i personally would like to see drugs on prescription..hat way they can be monitered, and any abusers have to pay higher premiums on thier life policies (assuming they have one) and only allowed to have private medical treatment.

I hate drugs and what it does to people, directly and indirectly, and by drugs I also mean tobacco and alcohol.

You know as well as I do that the average drug user does not have life polices and probably never will so that wont work. I see the private medical thing but again, it wont work because this **** poor country allows treatment regardless of circumstance or background. Great idea but sadly, completely unworkable while this country refuses to grow some balls and stops the rot that is setting in.

 

[Nobby Snide]

You know as well as I do that the average drug user does not have life polices and probably never will so that wont work. I see the private medical thing but again, it wont work because this **** poor country allows treatment regardless of circumstance or background. Great idea but sadly, completely unworkable while this country refuses to grow some balls and stops the rot that is setting in.

I know the the druggie has no self respect or self discipline...maybe make the 'families' responsible...ie, as a guarantor of behaviour. I know all unworkable.
Even the Dutch model is becoming unworkable in Holland itself, so I dont see how making frugs legal and cheap would benifit anyone apart from the 'barons' and organised crime who supply it.
i was reading up on how to become a magistrate, and its interesting on how you are shown to deal with such cases, and what you have to weigh up before a sentance is passed. Where drug users are concerned, I have NO sympathy, as its all self inflicted.

 

[Benfleet A1]

What is the Dutch model? Genuine question as I really don't know. I'm I right in assuming it has something to do with tolerating so-called soft drugs?

 

[Nobby Snide]

What is the Dutch model? Genuine question as I really don't know. I'm I right in assuming it has something to do with tolerating so-called soft drugs?

I'm not 100% verbatim with every aspect of it, but what I understand, it was an area set up to allow open us of drugs, especially ones involving needles, to be monitered. needle exchanges were offered, to cut down HIV , hepetitis and such like, as well as to offer alternate weening programmes, for those wishing to clense themselves. I understand medical advice and councelling were on hand too.
I understand that these areas are no longer frequented by the users, and the problem continues to exist in the 'dark corners' of the cities.
Maybe the stigma of users is such, that they just cant get it in the open, or maybe thats all part of the 'kick'..'ooh, arnt we being naughty'.
I think the 'cafe's' are still doing good business for the marajuana, which from my experiences recently, I dont see as too much of an issue.
Its the harder drugs which need to be dealt with.

maybe the 'student types' can correct me on these points?

 

[steveo]

so I dont see how making frugs legal and cheap would benifit anyone apart from the 'barons' and organised crime who supply it.

Thats the point, if they were readily available and extremely cheap, the dealers and barons would be out of business. There would obviously have to be laws about where people could and couldnt use the drugs.

 

[Desert Shrimper]

Thats the point, if they were readily available and extremely cheap, the dealers and barons would be out of business. There would obviously have to be laws about where people could and couldnt use the drugs.

I'm not saying it's the answer but where I live there is a minimum sentence of 4 years for drug offences and that could be 4 years of your life gone for a tiny piece of hash. Subsequently, nobody comes over here (even those who were massive druggies in London) and touches a thing, they just wouldn't take the risk. Dubai must be the most drug free "party" city in the world. What you're suggesting is the polar opposite of this view and I think it could make things worse personally. Brits don't need too many excuses to get hammered/off their heads, so making it cheap and easy (as we did some time ago with booze) would be like a red rag to a bull.......

 

[graysblue]

Prohibion simply does not work and all drugs should be legalised with better education at a young age.

Most using hard drugs can rarely ever be free and result to crime to pay for their gear,However if these knew they can easily buy gear through proper chanels and for pennies 50% of crime would cease overnight.

An old schoolfriend of mine who at school appeared to be destined for good things sadly was murdered in a South Ockendon pub over drugs.

I find it odd that people who wish to take stuff are being made into criminals and taking up vital police time and clogging up the court system.

As for soft sentences i would like to see doubling up on sentences ie if someone steals a car they get 3 months if on their release they steal another car they get 6 months and so on.

 

[steveo]

I'm not saying it's the answer but where I live there is a minimum sentence of 4 years for drug offences and that could be 4 years of your life gone for a tiny piece of hash.

Thats another good option DS but our punishments are not nearly severe enough. The reason to make them easily available would be to drive the price down, take dealers and barons out of the equation and reduce petty theft for druggies who need to get money for their next fix, which was the point if the original post.
However, if we had a decent prison system with room to put all these offenders, and really give them severe penalties, then I would be in favour of that too. At the moment what we are doing doesnt seem to work brilliantly.

 

[Nobby Snide]

although I understand your argument of making the drugs cheap, therefore eradicating the 'crime' aspect of the problem..and that may work, but, would you really want to encourage people to take it in the first place?
Can you imagine how many more zombies we would have and generations would be in danger of wiping themselves out.
Education...'just say no!'..didnt work really. Look at the other social problems;
DRINK: binge drinking, cheap alcohol sold in supermarkets. Its a social problem. You can buy cheap booze easier on the continant, but you dont get maurauding gangs of yobs hanging around on street corners causing havoc (generally)
TOBACCO: Has undergone a massive social change, which has taken 30 years to come to this point where people find it offensive to be around tobacco and the users of.
How many smokers here say its an infringement of your civil liberties that you cannot smoke in a pub? see the irony?

Until we as a society wake up to drugs as a bad thing, then the problem will not go away, no matter how much you educate.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Picking up that point, until we as a society, learn to do things in moderation and so educate our youngsters to follow that example, then there's no point in legalising drugs. So many take things to excess, whether that's drink, smoking, drugs, sex even racking up debts!

 

[Nobby Snide]

is a debt accumilation, an addiction? interesting.

can I get some money on the NHS?

 

[OldBlueLady]

is a debt accumilation, an addiction? interesting.

can I get some money on the NHS?

Often the spending that goes on to accumulate it is.

 

[graysblue]

although I understand your argument of making the drugs cheap, therefore eradicating the 'crime' aspect of the problem..and that may work, but, would you really want to encourage people to take it in the first place?
Can you imagine how many more zombies we would have and generations would be in danger of wiping themselves out.
Education...'just say no!'..didnt work really. Look at the other social problems;
DRINK: binge drinking, cheap alcohol sold in supermarkets. Its a social problem. You can buy cheap booze easier on the continant, but you dont get maurauding gangs of yobs hanging around on street corners causing havoc (generally)
TOBACCO: Has undergone a massive social change, which has taken 30 years to come to this point where people find it offensive to be around tobacco and the users of.
How many smokers here say its an infringement of your civil liberties that you cannot smoke in a pub? see the irony?

Until we as a society wake up to drugs as a bad thing, then the problem will not go away, no matter how much you educate.

Smoking is decreasing due to better education with the majority of youngsters thinking its uncool and daft.

The licensing laws have become a joke with booze readily available from various outlets the goverment should have controlled this far better.

Most youngsters have far better understanding than many of us and if they were educated at say aged 10 regarding drugs and the misery they cause most would not touch drugs.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Smoking is decreasing due to better education with the majority of youngsters thinking its uncool and daft.

The licensing laws have become a joke with booze readily available from various outlets the goverment should have controlled this far better.

Most youngsters have far better understanding than many of us and if they were educated at say aged 10 regarding drugs and the misery they cause most would not touch drugs.

I have to disagree, you want to try sitting outside a secondary school and watching how many light up almost as soon as they're off the premises. I know countless times I've sat in the car waiting for my kids and there are loads still doing it quite openly. I'm told there is still a "smoking area" where all the "bad kids" go to smoke during break and lunch time as well.

Youngsters are also educated as part of their PHSE lessons at primary school age about the dangers of drugs, smoking and alcohol. They also take part in discussion groups where I've seen children of 10 giving well thought out comments and debating the subject very sensibly. However, what happens when they're older is all down to the peer group they fall in with - you can be as anti as you like at age 10 or 11, but if your mates are all smoking or messing with drugs at 14 or 15, chances are you'll be lucky to have the strength of character to go against them.

 

[graysblue]

I have to disagree, you want to try sitting outside a secondary school and watching how many light up almost as soon as they're off the premises. I know countless times I've sat in the car waiting for my kids and there are loads still doing it quite openly. I'm told there is still a "smoking area" where all the "bad kids" go to smoke during break and lunch time as well.

Youngsters are also educated as part of their PHSE lessons at primary school age about the dangers of drugs, smoking and alcohol. They also take part in discussion groups where I've seen children of 10 giving well thought out comments and debating the subject very sensibly. However, what happens when they're older is all down to the peer group they fall in with - you can be as anti as you like at age 10 or 11, but if your mates are all smoking or messing with drugs at 14 or 15, chances are you'll be lucky to have the strength of character to go against them.

My son and daughters friends which number around 50 and only 2 actually smoke in addition as far as i know none of them do drugs but most if not all go out on the lash .

No idea what schools you see but here in Grays you rarely see kids smoking.