Today's Court Hearing

[dloman]

Correct - and, in order to get the petition withdrawn, Ron would have to strike deals with all of the co-petitioners. However, since the club's main creditor is Ron / Martin Dawn, one rather hopes that there aren't too many other significant creditors crawling out of the woodwork.


Matt

Thats what i thought, but as long as the debt is over £750 i think then they are quite entitled to join the petition. One thing we do know is that there has been at least one maybe two? ccj's knocking around as well, though a creditor doesn't have to follow this procedure and can go directly to a winding up petition.

Here is hoping that no one else has joined.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I'm sure it will not come to that anyway.

Just a slight case of squeaky bum for us lot this morning.

Here's hoping...!

:unsure: :puke

 

[Napster]

What's the line-up?

 

[dloman]

Francis was going to form part of the defence but his concentration kept letting him down!

 

[Napster]

Ref watch: Mr Registrar Simmonds

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2118026.stm

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:Rg6H0vnQHT4J:northwichvicsblog.blogspot.com/+Registrar+Simmonds+northwich&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

 

[Firestorm]

Not strictly true. Winding-up a company turns its technical insolvency into a legal one. Once insolvent, there are then two routes out of insolvency - administration and liquidation.

In layman's terms, the latter is a "fire-sale" - strip the company's assets and sell them off with a view to realising as much money as possible for the creditors, before closing the company down.

The former seeks to maximise returns for creditors by "rationalising" the company - i.e. reducing overheads (invariably sacking staff) and maximising any business opportunities. The creditors then need to agree new terms for their debts - usually, to accept that they will only recover a proportion of their debts (e.g. 20p in the £), and that they will recover their debts over a fixed period. The company can then trade its way out of its insolvency, having substantially reduced and rescheduled its debts and having had the benefit of a third party (the administrator) coming in and getting rid of staff and any other underperforming parts of the business.

If the administrator can achieve that, his ultimate aim is to allow the company to exit adminsitration as a viable, going concern - i.e. it continues trading again as a normal company. However, if he can't achieve that (and he'll have a fixed period to do so, usually a year), then he'll put the company into liquidation (see above).

Matt

From what I have read up on this , a winding up order does exactly that, it appoints and adminstrator to wind the company up.

Anyone who allows a winding up order to get to court whilst they are solvent is playing a very dangerous game

It would seem that we have a cash flow problem, and we will be able to meet the tax bill , just not at the minute , and MD are not exactly cash rich at the moment and can't sub us up.
RM gambled on the extended payment terms coming to our rescue and it initially seems to have failed. I presume from the silence from the club and the complete lack of anything indicating that the petition has been lifted that the debt has not been paid , therefore the action is either ask for delay, argue that the petition is invalid, or roll over and die.

However I am concerned about how this will effect the viablity of any development plans should we pull through

 

[palexander]

What's the line-up?

I'm worried as we havent got a 'defence' :D

 

[Mad Cyril]

That is probably going to be the best case scenario. How much do we reckon HMRC's legal costs are going to be? Or would we be insured for that?

Perhaps the lawyers are working for free or on a reduced rate?

 

[Napster]

Perhaps the lawyers are working for free or on a reduced rate?

No win, no fee?

 

[Andyhsufc]

Impossible to know. £20k-30k would not be beyond the pale. We won't be insured for that.

Normally 30k would not be a huge worry for us but at the moment, it is a substantial amount of money for us to find on top of the 690k. Looking at that post about the judge's history, it appears that he gave Northwich two adjournments before closing them down. Hopefully, we will get a similar chance to pay the debt.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

No win, no fee?

You'd be a loon to offer a "no win, no fee" deal to a company who's about to trot off to the Winders court; and you can be sure that HMRC won't have such a deal.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I was waiting outside the court this morning and one of the judges turned up in a yellow and blue Beaver sports anorak.

Could this be a good omen?

 

[Hooly]

The former seeks to maximise returns for creditors by "rationalising" the company - i.e. reducing overheads (invariably sacking staff) and maximising any business opportunities. The creditors then need to agree new terms for their debts - usually, to accept that they will only recover a proportion of their debts (e.g. 20p in the £), and that they will recover their debts over a fixed period. The company can then trade its way out of its insolvency, having substantially reduced and rescheduled its debts and having had the benefit of a third party (the administrator) coming in and getting rid of staff and any other underperforming parts of the business.

Don't forget the "maximise" part of this can be muddied, as in the case of Leeds if one creditor or group of creditors e.g. Bates' mafia holds more than 75% of the debt. They can then vote for the deal they theoretically want to accept even if it's substantially less than other offers, although as we know this was challenged in the Leeds situation.

Regrettably, although only 10 minutes from the court I can't get out to see the matter adjourned. (Hopefully!!!)

 

[shrimperton]

I was waiting outside the court this morning and one of the judges turned up in a yellow and blue Beaver sports anorak.

Could this be a good omen?

Yeah i saw that too, also i saw that the next judge turned up carrying golf clubs, must have been on a round with tilly before hand. :)


Dont worry, im sure this is just a process of events we have go through and everything will be cool, im more worried about facing Huddersfield with what looks like most of our youth team if these injuries carry on!

 

[Ulysses]

I personally think there is naff all to worry about. Thousands of businesses go through this every week and 99% agree some sort of repayment plan. Why do you think there is so many on that list of hearings! They last but a few minutes and terms are more often that not agreed.

I totally agree with you.

 

[Pennyfather]

From what I have read up on this , a winding up order does exactly that, it appoints and adminstrator to wind the company up.

Anyone who allows a winding up order to get to court whilst they are solvent is playing a very dangerous game

It would seem that we have a cash flow problem, and we will be able to meet the tax bill , just not at the minute , and MD are not exactly cash rich at the moment and can't sub us up.
RM gambled on the extended payment terms coming to our rescue and it initially seems to have failed. I presume from the silence from the club and the complete lack of anything indicating that the petition has been lifted that the debt has not been paid , therefore the action is either ask for delay, argue that the petition is invalid, or roll over and die.

However I am concerned about how this will effect the viablity of any development plans should we pull through

If a winding up order is issued the case is referred to the Official Receiver and it is more commonly know as "Compulsary Liquidation" That is as MTS referred to earlier as a "fire sale" as such. However, there are ways out of this but if CL happens it is all but over. The Official Receiver will not dispose of the assets and as is often the case will pass the case to an independent Insolvency firm, such as Begbie Traynor who have office in Southend

To appoint an Administrator the directors or indeed a creditor will need to apply to Court. The Administrator then will act as agent of the company to deal with the affairs such as trimming costs and selling.

However, my fingers are crossed the moment

 

[londonblue]

Yeah i saw that too, also i saw that the next judge turned up carrying golf clubs, must have been on a round with tilly before hand. :)


Dont worry, im sure this is just a process of events we have go through and everything will be cool, im more worried about facing Huddersfield with what looks like most of our youth team if these injuries carry on!

I think you'll find they were Tilly's clubs, and that the judge was caddying for him.

 

[Andyhsufc]

It looks likely from the research I have done that the case will be adjourned and we will be given maybe 3 months to sort something out. I think the key thing is that we can service the debt which I'm sure we can.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/bournemouth/8149820.stm

 

[Pubey]

so the second this gets adjourned and any transfer embargo gets lifted (are we under one?) could we see some signings that have been on hold happen very quickly?

 

[Napster]

Nothing on HMRC's twitter update