The Thursday Dilemma - Ched Evans

[Jam_Man]

This is a straw man. You're better than that.

I've been clear in my argument. As a point of principle I support the idea that people should be free to positively contribute to society upon their release from prison for all of the reasons outlined by Wes in his great post just now.

Personally the idea of a convicted rapist playing for Southend United would not sit overly well with me and it should go without saying that having a player who murdered a child would sit even less well with me. But unless we're going to lock rapists and child-murderers up for the rest of their life (a different topic entirely) then once they are released then they need to be given the opportunity to continue with their life and having a career is a fairly important part of that.

I do not want convicted rapists and killers in the team, simple as that.

When I recruit I would not recruit any one convicted of anything like that either, and the majority of firms would not do so either.

They may well have the right to continue their lives and earn a living, but the reality is they will find it hard to do so outside of football, and I personally hope the same is the same within football.

No one should be locked up for ever, but I dont think anyone who commits such crimes has any real right to expect to go straight back to how life was before, there are consequences for such terrible actions beyond what the justice system dishes out, and rightly so.

 

[mrsblue]

I do not want convicted rapists and killers in the team, simple as that.

When I recruit I would not recruit any one convicted of anything like that either, and the majority of firms would not do so either.

They may well have the right to continue their lives and earn a living, but the reality is they will find it hard to do so outside of football, and I personally hope the same is the same within football.

No one should be locked up for ever, but I dont think anyone who commits such crimes has any real right to expect to go straight back to how life was before, there are consequences for such terrible actions beyond what the justice system dishes out, and rightly so.

Good call,


To add further I certainly would not pay to watch a convicted rapist play .

 

[Beefy]

What was your stance on Ricky Otto?

 

[Beefy]

No one should be locked up for ever, but I dont think anyone who commits such crimes has any real right to expect to go straight back to how life was before, there are consequences for such terrible actions beyond what the justice system dishes out, and rightly so.

It isn't about "a right to expect" something or other. He had a talent before he went to jail. If he still has that talent then that talent will be in demand and he will gain employment. And it will probably not at the level that he would have been at had this incident not happened and therefore his bank balance will continue to be hit as a consequence of what he has done.

There is no logic at all behind the "this wouldn't happen in the real world" nonsense. It isn't a football vs the rest of society issue. Ched Evans has a talent which elevates him above the other 30m people in the workforce. That is life.

 

[blues_r_best]

At what level of crime would people not be bothered by when signing a player? Where is the tipping point?

 

[RobM]

Tes Bramble ...

 

[Jam_Man]

At what level of crime would people not be bothered by when signing a player? Where is the tipping point?

Massive gray area, but rape and killing people certainly over the line...

Tes Bramble ...

Didnt play again, but his career was over by then anyway.

 

[mrsblue]

It isn't about "a right to expect" something or other. He had a talent before he went to jail. If he still has that talent then that talent will be in demand and he will gain employment. And it will probably not at the level that he would have been at had this incident not happened and therefore his bank balance will continue to be hit as a consequence of what he has done.

There is no logic at all behind the "this wouldn't happen in the real world" nonsense. It isn't a football vs the rest of society issue. Ched Evans has a talent which elevates him above the other 30m people in the workforce. That is life.

There are crimes within society which will never be forgiven by the masses rape being one of those,Evans had the choice to do the decent thing and did not take that opportunity.There are crazed people who will take delight and wear it as a badge of honour to inflict damage on this guy.

Rightly or wrongly IMO he is finished as a pro in this country.

 

[Blue_Wes]

There are crimes within society which will never be forgiven by the masses rape being one of those,Evans had the choice to do the decent thing and did not take that opportunity.There are crazed people who will take delight and wear it as a badge of honour to inflict damage on this guy.

Rightly or wrongly IMO he is finished as a pro in this country.

Luke McCormick killed two young children, destroying an entire family. I'm not judging ther seriousness of crimes against one another, but in terms of the public eye, I would say it's at a minimum on a par with Ched Evans crime.

He has managed to re-forge his footballing career, and has even this season rehabilitated himself to the extent, that he now has been given the club captaincy. A position of prestige within a football club.

As far as I'm aware bar a few chants on the terraces, no-one has attempted to attack him, and he has successfully re-built his career. If he can do it, and manage to earn the club captaincy, then it's definitely possible for Ched Evans to do the same, especially as he appears to have the support of his previous employer.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

At what level of crime would people not be bothered by when signing a player? Where is the tipping point?

On ITV at 4pm I think

 

[mrsblue]

Luke McCormick killed two young children, destroying an entire family. I'm not judging ther seriousness of crimes against one another, but in terms of the public eye, I would say it's at a minimum on a par with Ched Evans crime.

He has managed to re-forge his footballing career, and has even this season rehabilitated himself to the extent, that he now has been given the club captaincy. A position of prestige within a football club.

As far as I'm aware bar a few chants on the terraces, no-one has attempted to attack him, and he has successfully re-built his career. If he can do it, and manage to earn the club captaincy, then it's definitely possible for Ched Evans to do the same, especially as he appears to have the support of his previous employer.

Argyle are IMO stupid to make him captain as it sends out the wrong message.

LM committed a terrible crime and was rightly punished for it YET drunk driving does not carry the same gut wrenching crime of rape.

Wherever Evans goes be it clubbing or having a meal he will be targeted by many,Away fans will have a field day by protesting at games,death threats and the like.Sheffield are seriously deluded on this matter.

 

[MK Shrimper]

The rule of thumb as I see it, should be if you've caused excessive hurt to another human being then you shouldn't be able to reap the rewards that being a pro-footballer brings, and that includes LM.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The rule of thumb as I see it, should be if you've caused excessive hurt to another human being then you shouldn't be able to reap the rewards that being a pro-footballer brings, and that includes LM.

I think you may have confused being a professional footballer with being the Archbishop of Canterbury.

I blame Barnsley for having had both Owen Archdeacon and Charlie Bishop play for them.

 

[Beefy]

The rule of thumb as I see it, should be if you've caused excessive hurt to another human being then you shouldn't be able to reap the rewards that being a pro-footballer brings, and that includes LM.

Bring a footballer is nothing more than a job. A well-paid job but that is all.

 

[Beefy]

Massive gray area, but rape and killing people certainly over the line...

You make is sound like McCormick killed people deliberately. He made a stupid, stupid mistake. A mistake which I firmly believe that millions of people in the UK have made at one point or other and just been much more fortunate than he was that night.

To me the LM situation is completely different to the Evans, Hughes or Otto ones.

 

[Blue_Wes]

Argyle are IMO stupid to make him captain as it sends out the wrong message.

LM committed a terrible crime and was rightly punished for it YET drunk driving does not carry the same gut wrenching crime of rape.

Wherever Evans goes be it clubbing or having a meal he will be targeted by many,Away fans will have a field day by protesting at games,death threats and the like.Sheffield are seriously deluded on this matter.

Apologies for it being The Mirror, but it's the only place where I could see a poll on McCormick's captaincy, it appears to be an even split; 51% believing he has paid his dues and deserves the opportunity, 49% believing he should never have the opportunity to be captain.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/drink-drive-killer-luke-mccormick-made-3875699

And given how relatively evenly split we are on here over whether Ched Evans should be allowed to continue as a footballer on his release, it would be very hard for any sort of decision to be made.

I still believe that once an appropriate punishment has been served, that the individual should be free to persue the career of their choosing. If it's a high profile one, then that's their own decision to put themself in the public eye, where they will be subject to all manner of scrutiny. But it's not for us to pick and choose the career paths they can now take, once they have served their punishment, but for the individual. Of course it depends heavily on whether the employer is comfortable having a person of that ilk representing them, an even harder decision when you're in the public eye. However, some companies are happy to be known as firms that are willing to give second chances, to help re-integrate ex-cons into society (I don't for one minute believe that clubs mentioned are doing it as an act of generosity by the way).

Ryan Hall incidentally, went out of his way to harm someone, attacked his victim whilst he lay helpless on the floor. I seem to remember it being only a minority that didn't support his return to the club, how right they were it seems with hindsight. Again, I'm not comparing the level of crimes; but his was one certainly done with intent to cause someone as much physical harm as he could at the time, and had his teammates not intervened it could of been a lot more serious. His intent at the time appears to be very serious, yet most on here were willing to not only forgive him once he'd paid his dues, but were praying that he get let off beating another human being to a pulp. Because it benefitted their cause, Southend United. Indeed Ron Martin did everything in his power to support Hall.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Argyle are IMO stupid to make him captain as it sends out the wrong message.

LM committed a terrible crime and was rightly punished for it YET drunk driving does not carry the same gut wrenching crime of rape.

Wherever Evans goes be it clubbing or having a meal he will be targeted by many,Away fans will have a field day by protesting at games,death threats and the like.Sheffield are seriously deluded on this matter.

What message does it send out? Other than the one about there being hope for those convicted of crimes that they can successfully rehabilitate themselves and once again contribute to society if they pay their debt to said society and show remorse.

 

[mrsblue]

You make is sound like McCormick killed people deliberately. He made a stupid, stupid mistake. A mistake which I firmly believe that millions of people in the UK have made at one point or other and just been much more fortunate than he was that night.

To me the LM situation is completely different to the Evans, Hughes or Otto ones.

LM chose to drive whilst drunk he also chose to drive at nearly 100mph..He made those choices whilst the two children never had that choice,Yes his mistake cost others dearly but only cost him time inside and now he is captain of PA which lacks class,Were Argyle so desperate for a keeper?

Professional footballers have a responsibility to their club and its fans when they fail with this simple task they can only blame themselves .

 

[mrsblue]

Apologies for it being The Mirror, but it's the only place where I could see a poll on McCormick's captaincy, it appears to be an even split; 51% believing he has paid his dues and deserves the opportunity, 49% believing he should never have the opportunity to be captain.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/drink-drive-killer-luke-mccormick-made-3875699

And given how relatively evenly split we are on here over whether Ched Evans should be allowed to continue as a footballer on his release, it would be very hard for any sort of decision to be made.

I still believe that once an appropriate punishment has been served, that the individual should be free to persue the career of their choosing. If it's a high profile one, then that's their own decision to put themself in the public eye, where they will be subject to all manner of scrutiny. But it's not for us to pick and choose the career paths they can now take, once they have served their punishment, but for the individual. Of course it depends heavily on whether the employer is comfortable having a person of that ilk representing them, an even harder decision when you're in the public eye. However, some companies are happy to be known as firms that are willing to give second chances, to help re-integrate ex-cons into society (I don't for one minute believe that clubs mentioned are doing it as an act of generosity by the way).

Ryan Hall incidentally, went out of his way to harm someone, attacked his victim whilst he lay helpless on the floor. I seem to remember it being only a minority that didn't support his return to the club, how right they were it seems with hindsight. Again, I'm not comparing the level of crimes; but his was one certainly done with intent to cause someone as much physical harm as he could at the time, and had his teammates not intervened it could of been a lot more serious. His intent at the time appears to be very serious, yet most on here were willing to not only forgive him once he'd paid his dues, but were praying that he get let off beating another human being to a pulp. Because it benefitted their cause, Southend United. Indeed Ron Martin did everything in his power to support Hall.

Over 50,000 have protested about Evans so whilst we all may be split this amount suggests otherwise.

 

[mrsblue]

What message does it send out? Other than the one about there being hope for those convicted of crimes that they can successfully rehabilitate themselves and once again contribute to society if they pay their debt to said society and show remorse.

So if your children were wiped out by a drunken footballer who then was made captain of your team would you happily stand on the terrace and offer him your support and forgiveness whilst chanting his name?