The People's Vote

[rigsby]

The People's Vote will be the third referendum, not the second.

As long as we wait 40 years until the 3rd referendum I will give my full support.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I've resisted going on this forum for a while but this 'People's Vote' campaign really gets my goat.

Even the name 'People's Vote' is an insult. Just call it what it is, which is a second referendum for people who still can't accept the result of the first. If there was such a vote (which I don't think there will) it would be a travesty of democracy. I would much prefer no deal.

Agreed, its a ridiculous title right up there with Living Wage (minimum wage), Affordable Housing (unaffordable), and the Championship (2nd Division).

If with 3 months to go the government had a Brexit plan that would get passed the MPs in its own party (let alone Parliament) then the idea of it could be shut down easily, but as it stands going back to the public and saying 'we have made such a mess of this it seems dangerous to carry on - what do you reckon?' looks like a way out of this Tory created mess.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

The People's Vote will be the third referendum, not the second.

OK fine, a 'replay' or 'rematch' of the 2016 referendum, then. The first referendum was on joining the EEC, which is far different to the EU of today.

If there is to be one, it should be about the terms of leaving. Remain shouldn't be an option, although it would be very amusing to see them lose again.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

OK fine, a 'replay' or 'rematch' of the 2016 referendum, then. The first referendum was on joining the EEC, which is far different to the EU of today.

If there is to be one, it should be about the terms of leaving. Remain shouldn't be an option, although it would be very amusing to see them lose again.

put Remain on then, you are a Southend fan so entertainment is in short supply

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

OK fine, a 'replay' or 'rematch' of the 2016 referendum, then. The first referendum was on joining the EEC, which is far different to the EU of today.

If there is to be one, it should be about the terms of leaving. Remain shouldn't be an option, although it would be very amusing to see them lose again.

Fair enough then if a new vote on membership is required when something turns out to be different from what was previously voted for we better start printing the ballot papers.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Yeah peoples vote is a stupid name, it should be called an informed vote because now we actually know what brexit terms are available (or no deal) and it's not what Farage, JRM, Boris etc led the public to believe.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I understand your point - if it is that lots of the pre-vote "news" was based on lies and conjecture, from both sides.
I also doubt that there would be any significant change in the propaganda leading to any future vote, whether on EU or a GE.
A manifesto is just a wish list of promises to be broken and a forecast on future events/finances etc is largely guess work from a set of unknown likely, possible or fantasy circumstances.
Equally staying in the EU - which is set for further federalism - is a risk that the UK, arguably, will have very little control over.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

The UK 'as a whole' didn't vote to leave. We (Westminster England) are dragging Northern Ireland and Scotland along for the ride. Those countries voted by a greater proportion to remain than England did to leave.

They are part of the UK. The UK is a country. It, as a whole, voted to leave in a UK-wide vote.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

They are part of the UK. The UK is a country. It, as a whole, voted to leave in a UK-wide vote.

To be fair the Scots had an opportunity to leave the UK and when they voted the UK was in the EU. If UK leaves the UK the Scots have a good reason to vote again on their status.
For a member of the Conservative and Unionist Party is strange how Cameron kept offering referendums that risked the Union.

 

[IloveShrimp]

I've resisted going on this forum for a while but this 'People's Vote' campaign really gets my goat.

Even the name 'People's Vote' is an insult. Just call it what it is, which is a second referendum for people who still can't accept the result of the first. If there was such a vote (which I don't think there will) it would be a travesty of democracy. I would much prefer no deal.

Thing is, I know of many people who voted out that have changed their minds since the referendum - now that they know many of the promises made by brexiteers will not / can not happen.

Also many people voted for brexit on the 'less immigration ticket'. The thing is, the UK does not breed enough children, and so there will not be enough young people to keep the aging population. All that will happen is that the government will encourage extra immigration from other countries in the world rather than Europeans to make up the short fall and for the cheap labour!

 

[IloveShrimp]

The UK 'as a whole' didn't vote to leave. We (Westminster England) are dragging Northern Ireland and Scotland along for the ride. Those countries voted by a greater proportion to remain than England did to leave.

Nor did Gibraltar,

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Nor did Gibraltar,

Nor did Camden. I'm not sure of the point being made though by everyone highlighting bits of the UK which didn't agree with the overall vote. It happens in every vote, everywhere, every time that not all areas vote for the winner!

 

[IloveShrimp]

The People's Vote will be the third referendum, not the second.

Agreed, but I couldn't vote in the first referendum as I was too young. If we have another referendum there will be many people who couldn't vote last time but would be able to if there is another.

 

[IloveShrimp]

Nor did Camden. I'm not sure of the point being made though by everyone highlighting bits of the UK which didn't agree with the overall vote. It happens in every vote, everywhere, every time that not all areas vote for the winner!

Point is, like the Scots Gibraltar will probably want to leave the UK. A proper split up of our un-United Kingdom. :(

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Point is, like the Scots Gibraltar will probably want to leave the UK. A proper split up of our the un-United Kingdom. :(

It is a concern, but honestly I can't see either happening, for different but very disctinct reasons

 

[IloveShrimp]

It is a concern, but honestly I can't see either happening, for different but very disctinct reasons

This is such a sad situation, its almost like a civil war!
Our once united Nation divided by a vote that was only called for selfish political reasons by Cameron. I doubt it will recover in my lifetime if ever.

 

[dcblue]

This is such a sad situation, its almost like a civil war!
Our once united Nation divided by a vote that was only called for selfish political reasons by Cameron. I doubt it will recover in my lifetime if ever.

Cameron, supported by most MP's, called the referendum due to the pressure exerted by Eurosceptics in his own party but mainly by the growth of UKIP who had won the EU election the previous year. UKIP support was all anti EU so the division in the country had started before the referendum was called.
I agree it is sad, but it is not helped by the constant negativity, by parliament, media and high profile remainers towards brexit. If they had all respected the leave result and helped, rather than hindered, then the divisions would have reduced instead of both sides becoming entrenched in their beliefs. The threads on this forum prove that.
In my opinion our best hope is to leave on wto terms and make a success of it. The other two options, remain or May's deal, will overturn the referendum result and cause even more division than there is now. Especially with the further integration wanted by the EU council to counter the current upheavals and problems in the EU.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Cameron, supported by most MP's, called the referendum due to the pressure exerted by Eurosceptics in his own party but mainly by the growth of UKIP who had won the EU election the previous year. UKIP support was all anti EU so the division in the country had started before the referendum was called.
I agree it is sad, but it is not helped by the constant negativity, by parliament, media and high profile remainers towards brexit. If they had all respected the leave result and helped, rather than hindered, then the divisions would have reduced instead of both sides becoming entrenched in their beliefs. The threads on this forum prove that.
In my opinion our best hope is to leave on wto terms and make a success of it. The other two options, remain or May's deal, will overturn the referendum result and cause even more division than there is now. Especially with the further integration wanted by the EU council to counter the current upheavals and problems in the EU.

we are currently in WTO under the EU membership, if we want to start a solo membership that would need to be negotiated so that is yet another reason why May delaying the vote on her deal is causing issues with organising our other options.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

we are currently in WTO under the EU membership, if we want to start a solo membership that would need to be negotiated so that is yet another reason why May delaying the vote on her deal is causing issues with organising our other options.

That’s not correct. All EU states are members of the WTO in their own right, and the EU overall is also a member. The UK has been a member of the WTO since 1st January 1995 and was previously a member of GATT.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Sorry guys (and girls) there won't be a people's vote. We might well leave the EU on WTO terms but that's a different issue and needs a different thread title.