Breaking News The Nov/Dec Embargo thread

[stewart]

The questions we need answering are:

What is the amount owed to HMRC?

Is it owed by SUFC or RM personally (perhaps linked to the court case)?

Is a lump sum required and/or payment schedule?

When and where is the cash coming from to get this resolved swiftly?

Can the NL impose points deductions on us as a result of the irregularities?

Now this is out there, the club need to use this as an opportunity to show some transparency. Be honest, front it and provide answers and solutions. Any further secret squirrel, brushing under the carpet behaviour will only inflame the situation further.

I really feel for the new guys. Just when it looked like we were getting our ducks in a row with good people in the right places. The rug has been pulled from underneath them. Again.

We would of had several decent new players in by now if it wasn’t for this. Now they’ve gone elsewhere and until it’s sorted Kev and the team need to work a miracle to keep this lot above water.

200000 IS OWED IN TAXES

 

[gatecrasher]

I think its about time we have a breaking news - Ron is confirmed as a complete tosser thread

 

[Target man]

It makes it very difficult, nearly impossible for the management team on Thursday night at The Cliffs (If it goes ahead) to answer any questions.

If anything they have like previous staff before them believed RM. We should feel for them having an impossible job.

Can see it ending in a food fight!! ?

 

[nick12]

Unbelievable, just when everything is starting to go the right way RM pulls off his tried & tested party trick.

I really thought all this was in the past & I can't go on with this. SUFC are in my heart & there will be another team for me but while this idiot owns my club I can only see doom & gloom.

Stuck now on what else to add, feel so sad & so angry at the appalling way my football club has been run & the total embarrassment we have become ?

 

[nick12]

Just over twelve months ago we were in court facing a petition to wind the club up, and, Ron produced something in the region of one million pounds to keep the show on the road.
I would imagine that finding the sum required was not easy and it must have taken some effort, and, who knows, perhaps some sacrifice as well.
Had Ron wanted the Club to fold that would have been the time to allow it to die.
On the day of the hearing I was very pessimistic and resigned to the fact that we would be wound up and was mildly surprised Ron made what must have been a supreme effort.
Let us be quite clear; it would have been easy for him not to have produced the money and for us to have gone the way of Macclesfield. The club only exists, and, has done for some time, because Ron is willing to commit significant sums of money to it.
As had been endlessly pointed out before Ron's financial position is just not secure enough to guarantee on a regular basis the funding the Club requires to keep it going. When cash flow is tight for him (as it has been all too often in recent years) the club suffers, and, the inevitable juggling act follows.
If someone is very rich and owns many assets being charged with fraud has little effect. You just fund your legal team, and, await the court date.
If your position is not so secure it can be a nightmare. Firstly, there is the not inconsiderable cost of legal advice and representation. This will be a constant and heavy drain on your resources.
If you owe money your creditors may become restless on learning of your troubles and seek greater collateral and/or security if not repayment. Do not underestimate the difficulties that can cause
On top of everything comes more stress and strain both as a result of the original prosecution as well as trying to keep on top of your business affairs.
Sell the club? As has been pointed out many times before there is nothing to sell. If someone wants to buy a lot of debt, a place in the National league and the registrations of a few players perhaps Ron could be persuaded to sell as he might think it has all become just too much for him. The Club might be cheap to acquire but who could afford the cost of running it?
Someone dust off 'Plan B'. Once Ron appeared in court more than his juggling act was needed to keep the club going. Unless I have grossly underestimated Ron's financial resources however bad things are now they will be worse in six month's time.
Ron will be blamed by many but not by me. Without him and his money Southend would have folded some time ago.
It was ironic that his court appearance came just a day after what should have been a triumph for him when the Council voted to go ahead on the FF development.
Potentially, this is a much much more serious situation than we have faced before.
I would suggest that no Ron Martin means no Southend United. Those who hate Ron may soon see the fulfillment of their wishes, but, should it happen, there will likely be no Club left to support.

A quick death would have been far less painful than the very very slow excruciating demise RM has put us all through.

The last 5 years are all his fault & he will create a legacy but he won't be remembered for FF it will be the death of SUFC

 

[Target man]

It makes it very difficult, nearly impossible for the management team on Thursday night at The Cliffs (If it goes ahead) to answer any questions.

If anything they have like previous staff before them believed RM. We should feel for them having an impossible job.

Can see it ending in a food fight!! ?

A

Ah propaganda? Ron did not find a million to pay off the bill last November? I imagined that?
I am no supporter of Ron but understand, as we all might have to much sooner than later. that no Ron means no Southend.
I hope I am wrong, and, if someone pays millions for the club and clears all of its debts I will be more than happy to eat my words.
Hope you can find such a person!

I was willing to take over ownership of the club and pay such debts from my own personal funding. However there were two barriers here preventing such occurrences.

1. Ron commented he would not accept any new investors even if they offered 40 million.
2. I didn't win the Euro millions this week.....

 

[Shrimper Brownie]

The truce is over - it’s war Ron and you will never beat the fans

 

[Jai]

Not to oversimplify, and I applaud your post, but 110 clubs above us manage. The vast majority without transfer embargoes and paying people late, alienating their communities and a good half of those get lower gates too.

 

[bluesfansince1952]

Protest blah blah blah, I’m not happy, blah blah blah.

It’s not going to make Ron any more uncomfortable to leave, we can’t fund ourselves and therefore need a sugar daddy.

That’s how it ends, we find someone else to pay the current chairman off and install them who will throw money at the club for our benefit.

Say Ron leaves tomorrow and signs everything over to Stan for example. What’s the outcome, we need to ask a bank for a loan to pay staff, and do it each month, their response, either no way you have not assets or a lovely high interest rate we can’t pay.

So back to how do we going about finding someone to put their hand in their own pocket to fund us?

100% correct.
No one likes RM but it is his money that funds the club.
If he walks who pays the bills and for how long?
There can be no buyers as there is nothing tangible to sell.
Options: (a) Ron continues until his money runs out (a most unsatisfactory situation);
(b) a saviour is found (most unlikely);
(c) oblivion!

 

[bluesfansince1952]

Can see it ending in a food fight!! ?

I was willing to take over ownership of the club and pay such debts from my own personal funding. However there were two barriers here preventing such occurrences.

1. Ron commented he would not accept any new investors even if they offered 40 million.
2. I didn't win the Euro millions this week.....

Could there not be another reason?
Imagine putting all that money into club and in six months time reading every day in Shrimperzone that you are absolutely the worst owner since Ron Martin!

 

[NZamba Legend]

Not to oversimplify, and I applaud your post, but 110 clubs above us manage. The vast majority without transfer embargoes and paying people late, alienating their communities and a good half of those get lower gates too.

This is the important argument

 

[Hampshire Shrimp]

How much does Martin owe to HMRC from his property business? was it 4 million from one site and 200K for another? The club now owes, at least 200K to HMRC, why has he not budgeted for paying tax like every other business, person does? It is very dangerous to have a clown like Martin running a business like Martin Dawn PLC, which owes HMRC millions, and a football club alongside it. Transparency, which I know we won`t get from Martin, but, will from the investigation into his affairs, of what is being transferred from which companies, when and amounts.

He may not love the club, but, seems to have a season ticket to see HMRC which has happened too many times, and they must be as sick of seeing him as much as we are!!?

SUFC in it`s current form is finished while Martin is at the helm, relegation is looming, debt is rising on both fronts for Martin and no light at the end of the tunnel.

What is the answer? SUFC fans deserve better, I cannot believe that we have not got Southend fans who would invest in a Phoenix club, and fans that would put money into a well run club? Only some thoughts, but, am really angry, and have been for years over Martins running of the club, and blatant disregard and lies to fans!?

Good luck to all and hope you all have a Happy Christmas

Hampshire Shrimp

#Martinout

 

[Target man]

Could there not be another reason?
Imagine putting all that money into club and in six months time reading every day in Shrimperzone that you are absolutely the worst owner since Ron Martin!

6 months???? Generous!

 

[Mad Cyril]

Not to oversimplify, and I applaud your post, but 110 clubs above us manage.

Clubs like Derby, Portsmouth, Plymouth, Port Vale, Coventry, Crystal Palace , Wigan, Stockport, Aldershot, Bolton?

All of whom have entered administration over the last decade or so. Who know how many more have unsustainable business models or are just clinging on

 

[Jasrod]

So the statement reads that we are looking to finalise terms on a Time To Pay agreement. Sounds like it should be in place soon from that description but does anyone know what sort of timeframe we are looking at?

 

[Cricko]

So the statement reads that we are looking to finalise terms on a Time To Pay agreement. Sounds like it should be in place soon from that description but does anyone know what sort of timeframe we are looking at?

How long is a piece of string.. That statement was meant to pacify the fans, nothing more, it could be weeks. Why it got to this stage before they decided it might be an idea to do a deal with HMRC before we got clouted again is anybodies guess. It's hardly the first time we have been in this position and probably going on past records not the last time.

 

[RHB]

So the statement reads that we are looking to finalise terms on a Time To Pay agreement. Sounds like it should be in place soon from that description but does anyone know what sort of timeframe we are looking at?

The crunch on the official statement for me is this

With a reasonable approach from both parties we hope to conclude our discussions with HMRC shortly.

The very fact that the Club (Ron) have mentioned a reasonable approach suggests that HMRC are in no mood to be reasonable, and why should they? The thing about TTP is that you have to keep up the payments. Being a habitual tax defaulter, both in his businesses and in owning a football club does not give HMRC much encouragement on that front. I really do hope I'm wrong.

 

[Blue Yonder]

Not to oversimplify, and I applaud your post, but 110 clubs above us manage. The vast majority without transfer embargoes and paying people late, alienating their communities and a good half of those get lower gates too.

A quick search shows up around 70 instances of clubs going into administration. Oddly we’re not one of them.

 

[Texas Eslan]

100% correct.
No one likes RM but it is his money that funds the club.
If he walks who pays the bills and for how long?
There can be no buyers as there is nothing tangible to sell.
Options: (a) Ron continues until his money runs out (a most unsatisfactory situation);
(b) a saviour is found (most unlikely);
(c) oblivion!

I find myself sighing a lot reading some of these posts. The steadfast belief that only Ron can keep the club afloat is worrying as this is a big reason for our inaction.

 

[Jasrod]

The crunch on the official statement for me is this

With a reasonable approach from both parties we hope to conclude our discussions with HMRC shortly.

The very fact that the Club (Ron) have mentioned a reasonable approach suggests that HMRC are in no mood to be reasonable, and why should they? The thing about TTP is that you have to keep up the payments. Being a habitual tax defaulter, both in his businesses and in owning a football club does not give HMRC much encouragement on that front. I really do hope I'm wrong.

There goes my positive thought for the day. I’ll try again tomorrow.