The Independent Group

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Corbyn does seem to be loved by those who follow him, there isn't much middle ground. Like GBJ says, he's marmite. He has massive support from the youth of this country in a similar way to what Blair had when he swept into power with Noel Gallagher and the Britpop crowd telling all who would listen that he was the man to change this country. The difference is that Blair was central enough to convert older voters as well. IMO if Labour were to look at themselves they would realise that the youth vote that love Corbyn would never vote Tory so to lose Corbyn would not be losing the youth vote. It seems that Corbyn has to quit as he can't be ousted with the support he has from the membership and I see this group as a tool to chip away at Corbyn and get him to quit. I don't see any party upsetting the two party system in my lifetime, only influencing them.

Oh and please don't take this post as me wanting another Blair, I am fed up of this assumption that someone more central has to be another Blair. I purely used Blair to illustrate the youth vote similarities with Corbyn.

Without Corbyn you wouldn't have the 2017 manifesto, that is why people get behind him.

 

[GBJ]

Absolutely I do. The overwhelming democratic choice of the largest political party in Europe is a leader of integrity and vision, which is precisely why the Blairite splinter group have departed. Far from wanting a new kind of politics they want a return to the Blair era of parachuted in MPs, reliance on big individual donors and corruption as usual. And of course, slavish adherence to the promotion of Israeli propaganda hence the trumped up antisemitism nonsense.

Yeah, so my point was, if these MP’s have only just been uncovered as ‘not good enough’, then how many more are there still within the party that are not good enough, and subsequently, how strong is yours, A S S etc, claims’ that Labour is the best Party for the Country.

 

[GBJ]

Without Corbyn you wouldn't have the 2017 manifesto, that is why people get behind him.

Some people. Not enough people.

Thankfully

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

he is pointing out that the 7 who have left were considered poor quality MPs and their local party members were pointing that out, so no, that is not the party he supports

There was some anecdotal information quoted about poor performance, without any evidence to back it up. It may well be true, but it is just as likely to be spin and briefing of the 'good riddance' variety that has been emanating from Corbynites. I wonder whether these 7 MPs performance in the areas quoted is any worse than other Labour MPs - or MPs of any party for that matter, except this seems to be briefing by Labour against ex-Labour MPs, so for that briefing to be valid and not mendacious other Labour MPs is the correct comparison to make.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Absolutely I do. The overwhelming democratic choice of the largest political party in Europe is a leader of integrity and vision, which is precisely why the Blairite splinter group have departed. Far from wanting a new kind of politics they want a return to the Blair era of parachuted in MPs, reliance on big individual donors and corruption as usual. And of course, slavish adherence to the promotion of Israeli propaganda hence the trumped up antisemitism nonsense.

Sorry, two people have been sent to jail for the death threats they made against Luciana Berger. Is that trumped up nonsense?

 

[blues exile]

There was some anecdotal information quoted about poor performance, without any evidence to back it up. It may well be true, but it is just as likely to be spin and briefing of the 'good riddance' variety that has been emanating from Corbynites. I wonder whether these 7 MPs performance in the areas quoted is any worse than other Labour MPs - or MPs of any party for that matter, except this seems to be briefing by Labour against ex-Labour MPs, so for that briefing to be valid and not mendacious other Labour MPs is the correct comparison to make.

Many of these MPs CLPs have already passed no confidence motions,fact, not anecdotal. If the 2017 GE had not been called so quickly, I have no doubt most of these wretched people would have been deselected. There was simply no time to go through the usual selection process.

 

[blues exile]

Sorry, two people have been sent to jail for the death threats they made against Luciana Berger. Is that trumped up nonsense?

Not Labour Party members, that is the difference.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Not Labour Party members, that is the difference.

Not really. Officially sanctioned Labour Party threats against one of its' sitting MPs would indeed be a bigger story. That these people did not (apparently) hold a membership card does not mean Labour can just turn the other cheek and say 'not me guv'. That is precisely the problem. There may actually not be blame to apportion for incitement to harm her or something of that nature (but this cannot be said for sure), but to the casual observer the half hearted efforts to say 'everything is fine lets all just move on' do not inspire confidence. Quite the reverse.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Many of these MPs CLPs have already passed no confidence motions,fact, not anecdotal. If the 2017 GE had not been called so quickly, I have no doubt most of these wretched people would have been deselected. There was simply no time to go through the usual selection process.

Those CLPs who did were taken over by Momentum thugs saying 'our way or the highway'. Fact. Corbyn or bust. Fact. It was nothing to do with an MP not keeping an appointment with Mrs Smith on a Friday morning. Fact.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Not really. Officially sanctioned Labour Party threats against one of its' sitting MPs would indeed be a bigger story. That these people did not (apparently) hold a membership card does not mean Labour can just turn the other cheek and say 'not me guv'. That is precisely the problem. There may actually not be blame to apportion for incitement to harm her or something of that nature (but this cannot be said for sure), but to the casual observer the half hearted efforts to say 'everything is fine lets all just move on' do not inspire confidence. Quite the reverse.

When Jo Cox was murdered, was the Labour Party to blame? Or was it far-right extremists? Any political party cannot police threats and action taken to their MPs when those inciting the hatred have nothing to do with the party.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Some people. Not enough people.

Thankfully

40%

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yeah, so my point was, if these MP’s have only just been uncovered as ‘not good enough’, then how many more are there still within the party that are not good enough, and subsequently, how strong is yours, A S S etc, claims’ that Labour is the best Party for the Country.

the current government were found in contempt of Parliament and lost a Parliamentary vote but the biggest defeat in history, Labour MPs are facing votes of no confidence from local members, the LibDems had their leader quit because he can't talk about gays, UKIP have had all their known faces leave the party. I think it's fair to say I'm all parties there are a number of MPs / candidates that aren't really up to the job.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I do love how all you have to do is say 'fact' to make it so.

When Jo Cox was murdered, was the Labour Party to blame? Or was it far-right extremists? Any political party cannot police threats and action taken to their MPs when those inciting the hatred have nothing to do with the party.

That horrendous murder seems to result from the public political discourse around Brexit. Lots of inflammatory crap was spouted by all sides about racism and Brexit, which seems to have unfortunately inflamed a clearly disturbed person to act. That being so does not mean that all threats arise from public debate rather than other issues and as such you cannot say that because Jo Cox's murder does not at all have seemed to have originated in anything the Labour Party does (internally or publicly) therefore any other threats against MPs are obviously also not anything to do with problems in the Labour Party.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Sorry, two people have been sent to jail for the death threats they made against Luciana Berger. Is that trumped up nonsense?

3 people.
Joshua Bonehill-Paine, Garron Helm and John Nimmo - far right activists.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I do love how all you have to do is say 'fact' to make it so.


That horrendous murder seems to result from the public political discourse around Brexit. Lots of inflammatory crap was spouted by all sides about racism and Brexit, which seems to have unfortunately inflamed a clearly disturbed person to act. That being so does not mean that all threats arise from public debate rather than other issues and as such you cannot say that because Jo Cox's murder does not at all have seemed to have originated in anything the Labour Party does (internally or publicly) therefore any other threats against MPs are obviously also not anything to do with problems in the Labour Party.

He was a terrorist. He may not have brown skin, but that's what he was and probably still is.

 

[GBJ]

40%

Which is still thankfully below 51%

 

[GBJ]

the current government were found in contempt of Parliament and lost a Parliamentary vote but the biggest defeat in history, Labour MPs are facing votes of no confidence from local members, the LibDems had their leader quit because he can't talk about gays, UKIP have had all their known faces leave the party. I think it's fair to say I'm all parties there are a number of MPs / candidates that aren't really up to the job.

Lol I wonder what odds I’d have got on you trying to turn attention back to the failing Tory Party. 1/33?

The difference is, I’m not advocating the Tories, nor the others you mention. I’m not suggesting that they are what’s right for the country.

You are.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Lol I wonder what odds I’d have got on you trying to turn attention back to the failing Tory Party. 1/33?

The difference is, I’m not advocating the Tories, nor the others you mention. I’m not suggesting that they are what’s right for the country.

You are.

your point was (paraphrasing) there are some bad Labour MPs and that reflects on the party, I'm agreeing but giving the context that all parties are in the same situation.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Which is still thankfully below 51%

have a party ever won a General Election with 51%?
Tories got a majority government in 2015 with 36.9%

 

[GBJ]

have a party ever won a General Election with 51%?
Tories got a majority government in 2015 with 36.9%

That’s what’s Dianne Abbott told me