The development of youth

[yogi bear up the cagire]

But isn't that exactly what happens today?

Did we not negotiate add ons for the kid we sold to Liverpool, depending on future appearances or success? ESB has mentioned the ceiling of 100k max compensation for when a category 1 or 2 side poaches a promising player. Would add ons still be able to be negotiated in this situation? If not, it just appears totally unjust.......one could say that amounts to downright theft. Imagine receiving peanuts (100K) for a starlet that you have nurtured since he was a kid only to see, a few years later, that same kid playing in the Premiership and commanding a transfer fee in the millions. What on earth would be the purpose of investing anything in a Youth Academy when you can pick up the majority of kids that fail to make the top grade. In that way you've wasted no money on training and presumably could pick them up for little or nothing.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Did we not negotiate add ons for the kid we sold to Liverpool, depending on future appearances or success? ESB has mentioned the ceiling of 100k max compensation for when a category 1 or 2 side poaches a promising player. Would add ons still be able to be negotiated in this situation? If not, it just appears totally unjust.......one could say that amounts to downright theft. Imagine receiving peanuts (100K) for a starlet that you have nurtured since he was a kid only to see, a few years later, that same kid playing in the Premiership and commanding a transfer fee in the millions. What on earth would be the purpose of investing anything in a Youth Academy when you can pick up the majority of kids that fail to make the top grade. In that way you've wasted no money on training and presumably could pick them up for little or nothing.

Add ons aren't negotiable, they're predetermined and set in stone. After every 10 appearances the player makes for his new club, an extra fee is payable to the original club up to 100 appearances, with an absolute maximum of £1.3m. This fee is dependant on the league the appearance is made in and carries on to additional clubs should he be sold. (So for example, we sell Michael N'goo to Liverpool, he makes 10 appearances for Liverpool in his first season, so Liverpool owe us an extra £150k. He goes on to make another 20 appearances the season after, taking him to 30 games, so Liverpool owe us a further £300k as the amount payable after 30 games is £450k. Then Liverpool sell him to Fulham, for which we receive a sell-on fee, and Fulham then take over what's owed to us for the next 70 games of his Premier League career.)

There's a chart in this Indepedent article, with all the facts and figures as to what's payable and when - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...pains-blueprint-work-for-england-6258617.html

It's a fairly complicated process which will have implications on future transfers, but will benefit clubs slightly in knowing where they stand. The previous tribunal process was an absolute shambles, with many clubs being shafted by receiving merely nominal, poorly-structured compensation.

In terms of merely picking up kids without paying for their training, that's amended by the fact that to get into the higher categories, you'll already be spending in excess of either £900k or £2.5m per year and have an established coaching set-up. It'll still be significantly cheaper to nurture your own talent than it will be to jaunt around the country snapping up talent en masse, although that's what many a Category 1 club will be doing I imagine... particularly in areas that are relatively densely populated, but with no clubs possessing a Cat 1/2 academy. Essex, for example.

 

[Beefy]

Did we not negotiate add ons for the kid we sold to Liverpool, depending on future appearances or success? ESB has mentioned the ceiling of 100k max compensation for when a category 1 or 2 side poaches a promising player. Would add ons still be able to be negotiated in this situation? If not, it just appears totally unjust.......one could say that amounts to downright theft. Imagine receiving peanuts (100K) for a starlet that you have nurtured since he was a kid only to see, a few years later, that same kid playing in the Premiership and commanding a transfer fee in the millions. What on earth would be the purpose of investing anything in a Youth Academy when you can pick up the majority of kids that fail to make the top grade. In that way you've wasted no money on training and presumably could pick them up for little or nothing.

What I meant is that the kids on the books here at the minute are here because either they want to play for Southend United because of the good reputation we have at that age group or because they've not been able to get into the youth systems at bigger clubs. That's still going to be exactly the same story.

 

[SUFCKZB]

I was discussing with a friend the other day what scouting system we have in place for youth players in the local area? Do Southend hold open trials for kids in the local area or do they even scout matches in and around Southend? Surely an open trial every year can't be too much hassle for the club and could uncover a good player?

I don't know much on the subject and what scouting system we have in place for the local leagues, but i am intrigued to know.

 

[Mick]

Purely hypothetically is there anything to stop a lower level team affiliated to the FA, maybe Ryman league standard obviously with lots of money setting up an academy status or category 1 level youth facility?

A Ryman club with £2.3 million pounds to spend on a youth academy ? Wow, that really is hypothetical !

 

[EastStandBlue]

I was discussing with a friend the other day what scouting system we have in place for youth players in the local area? Do Southend hold open trials for kids in the local area or do they even scout matches in and around Southend? Surely an open trial every year can't be too much hassle for the club and could uncover a good player?

I don't know much on the subject and what scouting system we have in place for the local leagues, but i am intrigued to know.

We've held open trials in the past, but notably not since Paul Sturrock has been in charge. I couldn’t say whether or not that’s been his decision, or just whether the previous open trials have dissuaded us from doing them again.

There are plenty of scouts watching football in Essex. It’s a notable hotbed of activity within youth football with several well organised leagues, and attracts scouts from across the country with many Premier League clubs maintaining a permanent presence in the county. The bulk of our youth recruitment tends to be done at a relatively early age, with players put into satellite teams and useful players gravitating up the satellite teams towards the official squads. It also works backwards, with players who maybe suffer an extended period of poor form who stagnate in their development moving down the scale, rather than being released. It’s a useful tool to ensure we’re not ditching the next big thing just because he’s got shin splints or Osgood-Schlatter that’s affecting his football.

We also maintain outreach centres in places like Dagenham, Romford and Ilford, increasing our presence and allowing us to keep tabs on promising youngsters from London that are either missed or don’t quite do enough to impress any of the London clubs.

The thing about open trials is good players at the youth level become well known very quickly. An extreme case, but when Wayne Rooney scored 99 goals in one season for his youth team, he became something of a local celebrity and it forced Everton’s hand into snapping him up. You might attract the odd raw diamond to an open trial, but the likelihood is he’s already well known to the scouts.

I think what you’ll begin to see in the future is rather than clubs keeping full-time scouts on the wage bill, lower league clubs will opt to maintain close relationships with Premier League clubs like we’ve done (both Luke Chambers and Seedy Njie were recommended to us by Arsenal) and/or adopt what’s emerging in the continent; unofficial scouts claiming “finders fees” when an emerging talent is recommended to a club. One of the most notable transfers that has seen a finders fee paid is the one that took Juan Manuel Iturbe to Porto from Cerro Porteno in Paraguay. Dubbed the new Lionel Messi, Iturbe couldn’t sign a contract with Porteno because he wasn’t 18 and the Argentinian club Quilmes thought they’d steal a march on them by poaching him. Although Quilmes claimed they’d signed him, Porto soon unveiled him with the player returning to Porteno until he turned 18, with Porto paying a nominal finders fee (about €1.5m) for bringing him to the club’s attention.

 

[SUFCKZB]

Cheers EastStandBlue, answered all my questions!

I personally think open trials are a good idea, it's very unlikely you're going to find the next big thing but I feel surely some players must slip under the radar, some decent footballers who could make a career out of League 2 football. Take Ian Wright for example, I know he had trials with teams in his teens (I'm pretty sure one of them was with Southend?) but he wasn't signed on a pro contract till he was 21.

I just think an open trial for 8-18 year old's every year would ensure that everyone gets their fair chance at a shot of becoming a footballer, but I suppose the world isn't a fair place!

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/sport/blues/9769278.Elite_performance_plan_for_Blues_youths/?ref=rss

 

[chapperzUK]

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/sport/blues/9769278.Elite_performance_plan_for_Blues_youths/?ref=rss

Guessing if that gets turned down, then in category four (lowest I believe) then we will get next to nothing for players and there could be questions over whether or not to carry it on.

 

[hockleyeast1964]

if we only get category 4 what happens to the boys already signed ...i.e my lad who is in this years under 15s is their contract torn up?...a lot of them have 2year contracts.

 

[hockleyeast1964]

What do the FA think this will do to all the lower league clubs?It's as if they only want the premier league...a total disgrace Trever Brooking is a spineless tw..t premiership ar.. licker.:scared:

 

[EastStandBlue]

if we only get category 4 what happens to the boys already signed ...i.e my lad who is in this years under 15s is their contract torn up?...a lot of them have 2year contracts.

If we fail the audit and get placed into Category 4, then we’ll be forced to forego the coaching of youngsters below 16 years of age. What I’d imagine we’d do is something similar to what Yeovil have done, and that’s give the players and/or their families themselves the choice. They can either -

a) Leave the club. We wouldn’t be eligible to receive any fee for them, and they’d be free to join a set-up that has qualified for Category 3 or higher. Obviously, that may place a significant strain on a family, what with driving their son to Dagenham or, heaven forbid, Colchester three or four times a week, but they’d be promised FA-licensed coaching for a set number of hours a week. Of course, the club maintains strong links with local set-ups of a higher standard/grade and any talented youngsters could be pointed in their direction.

Alternatively, they could –

b) Stay at the club, knowing that their son wouldn’t be able to officially sign on as a player or participate in FL-sanctioned competition until they turn 16. What Yeovil appear to have said is that they’ll continue to offer coaching sessions for their youngsters, but on a limited basis. That’s probably more feasible for the parents in terms of travel, but you’d have to be aware that they’d be under no guarantee to receive a determined amount of training/education (as they would at a Cat 3 club, for example) and even then, there’s no guarantee we’d be interested in keeping them on when they turn 16.

For what it’s worth, as long as there haven’t been any further lay-offs of coaching staff and the facilities are up to scratch, then I can’t see us failing the audit for Category 3. The Echo article has Duncan saying that the auditors seemed happy with the club’s efforts and we’ve certainly a good reputation at that level. We’ve held a similar investment to what’s required for Cat 3 for the last few years and we’re an established, recognised Centre of Excellence.

 

[hockleyeast1964]

Thanks for that mate.I think we will get cat 3,the boys regulary play and beat millwall,qpr etc it will be a travesty if it all breaks up.I am feeling very disillusioned ,how the hell are we going to get a better national team when all that's going to be left is a league of foreigners...half the arsenal chelsea youth set up are foreign.

 

[Mick]

What do the FA think this will do to all the lower league clubs?It's as if they only want the premier league...a total disgrace Trever Brooking is a spineless tw..t premiership ar.. licker.:scared:

The Football League clubs voted for this by a significant majority; they only have themselves to blame as they allowed themselves to be railroaded by the Premiership. Only 22 League clubs voted against and I am still not sure which way we voted.

 

[hockleyeast1964]

wow! I really can't see the benefit in any part of the changes ,there must be some attraction .What do i know i don't run a club just a dad who'd love to see him get a chance to play for his home club.

 

[chapperzUK]

wow! I really can't see the benefit in any part of the changes ,there must be some attraction .What do i know i don't run a club just a dad who'd love to see him get a chance to play for his home club.

Yes, higher category clubs can pick youngsters from lower category clubs for next to nothing. That 6 figure sum we got for Della-Verde (sp?) would have been a lot less!

 

[Mick]

wow! I really can't see the benefit in any part of the changes ,there must be some attraction .What do i know i don't run a club just a dad who'd love to see him get a chance to play for his home club.

There are plenty of benefits - pretty much all for the top clubs !!

This is the propaganda:

The Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) is a long-term strategy designed to take Premier League Youth Development to the next level.

The EPPP is the result of consultation between the Premier League and its clubs, representatives of the Football League, the Football Association and other key football stakeholders.

It has six fundamental principles:

· Increase the number and quality of Home Grown Players gaining professional contracts in the clubs and playing first-team football at the highest level
· Create more time for players to play and be coached
· Improve coaching provision
· Implement a system of effective measurement and quality assurance
· Positively influence strategic investment into the Academy System, demonstrating value for money
· Seek to implement significant gains in every aspect of player development

It will do this by focusing on four main areas:

· Coaching
· Classification
· Compensation
· Education

Academies will be independently audited and given a Category status of 1 to 4, with 1 being the most elite. Up to 10 different factors will be considered in the grading, including productivity rates; training facilities; and coaching, education and welfare provisions.

The higher a club's Category the more funding will be available to it and the EPPP will see the Premier League and FA invest more central income than ever before in Youth Development programmes across the country.

The reality ? I think many smaller clubs will just withdraw from youth fooutball which would be a shame because it's not just about getting first team players through but also a community thing.

 

[Beefy]

wow! I really can't see the benefit in any part of the changes ,there must be some attraction .What do i know i don't run a club just a dad who'd love to see him get a chance to play for his home club.

The benefit is that talented children will get the chance, if they and their parents decide that they want it, to get access to top quality coaching in well-funded facilities and won't be denied that chance by profit-driven private companies (football clubs) claiming ownership of them despite them being far too young to have have agreed a contract.

If you as a father want your kid to get a chance at your local club then no one will stop you from doing that. But if you later decide that your kid's best interests are served in them going to Arsenal or Manchester United to increase their chances of making the most of their ability then these changes allow that to happen. If later on your kid breaks through at their new club then your local club will be rewarded financially for that.

The changes are part of a broader change in the way that kids are coached in this country, and it's not before time.

 

[Beefy]

There are plenty of benefits - pretty much all for the top clubs !!

This is the propaganda:

The Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) is a long-term strategy designed to take Premier League Youth Development to the next level.

The EPPP is the result of consultation between the Premier League and its clubs, representatives of the Football League, the Football Association and other key football stakeholders.

It has six fundamental principles:

· Increase the number and quality of Home Grown Players gaining professional contracts in the clubs and playing first-team football at the highest level
· Create more time for players to play and be coached
· Improve coaching provision
· Implement a system of effective measurement and quality assurance
· Positively influence strategic investment into the Academy System, demonstrating value for money
· Seek to implement significant gains in every aspect of player development

It will do this by focusing on four main areas:

· Coaching
· Classification
· Compensation
· Education

Academies will be independently audited and given a Category status of 1 to 4, with 1 being the most elite. Up to 10 different factors will be considered in the grading, including productivity rates; training facilities; and coaching, education and welfare provisions.

The higher a club's Category the more funding will be available to it and the EPPP will see the Premier League and FA invest more central income than ever before in Youth Development programmes across the country.

The reality ? I think many smaller clubs will just withdraw from youth fooutball which would be a shame because it's not just about getting first team players through but also a community thing.

It's not a Premier League vs smaller club thing. Big clubs wanting to make the most of the new rules will need to invest in their youth development and if smaller clubs can find some way of making similar investments then they will benefit as well.

English football has been held back for too long by an 'us vs them' attitude. This is about developing better players and increasing the standard across the board. And if we, or Yeovil or Exeter, or anyone else produce decent players then whilst the initial fees are very low if a kid's parents choose to take them to a Category 1 club, if the player does well then then the future fees seem to actually be quite generous and I wouldn't be surprised if in certain cases the smaller club actually does better financially out of a deal than they do today.

 

[hockleyeast1964]

the point i don't get is.Why have they capped the amount of money you can get for a kid who has been coached by say southend for 9 years? Why would the lower league clubs not have voted against this.Or am I missing something,which is quite possible!