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How does this new EPP system affect things then for the likes of Crewe? Presumably their youngsters will now be able to be poached for peanuts like everyone else. My guess is a lot of youth systems will be disbanded soon after it comes into force.....

It's a joke, the FA only care about the Premier League and sod everyone else. :angry:
 
How does this new EPP system affect things then for the likes of Crewe? Presumably their youngsters will now be able to be poached for peanuts like everyone else. My guess is a lot of youth systems will be disbanded soon after it comes into force.....

It's a joke, the FA only care about the Premier League and sod everyone else. :angry:

The FA should only be caring about what is going to best achieve better quality coaching and ultimately better quality players being produced. Whilst on the face of it it's 'bad' for lower league clubs, I'm cautiously optimistic about the new rules. I know that's not a particularly fashionable thing to say.
 
How does this new EPP system affect things then for the likes of Crewe? Presumably their youngsters will now be able to be poached for peanuts like everyone else. My guess is a lot of youth systems will be disbanded soon after it comes into force.....

It's a joke, the FA only care about the Premier League and sod everyone else. :angry:

Clubs in higher categories can approach players at younger ages, and the fees are based upon the category of the club, the age of the player and how long the player has been at the club. A sell-on fee is also worked into the deal, so there still is profit to be made from doing it well. It's vastly disproportionate though and favours clubs with access to lucrative income streams. Unfortunately, Football League clubs were pretty much held to ransome. The Premier League threatened to withhold solidarity payments related to youth development if EPPP wasn't passed, which would've sent several clubs into financial trouble. More than the turkeys voting for Christmas, the Premier League effectively got away with blackmail.

You're absolutely right. Most FL clubs will, at the least, be scaling down their youth operations to the bare minimum needed to qualify for a set category. For example, if we're still spending circa £250k per year on the Centre of Excellence, then we can spend an extra £65k per year to qualify for Category 3, or cut £150k from the youth budget safe in the assurance that we're in Category 4 anyway.

How does an academy cost half a million a year (£20,000 a week) to run?

Quite easily. Without the obvious wages associated with the players and coaching staff, costs will also be accrued by travel, maintenance of facilities, insurance, lodging, player registration etc etc. I know some clubs hire "specialists" to help players settle in to new countries, whereas others will pay someone to ensure that those in digs are fed properly/kept out of trouble. The fact that we maintain a relatively no-frills Centre of Excellence, yet still manage to spend £250kp/a on it should tell you all you need to know.

It'll certainly be an interesting summer in terms of the country's youth development programmes. Crewe find themselves in an interesting predicament as they undoubtedly have the facilities to qualify for even Category 2 perhaps, but they certainly won't be able to afford the required investment to qualify for Category 2 on an investment/permanent staff basis. It'll require a great deal of examination in terms of potential return on investment and clubs like Crewe will face difficult decisions.

It's like what's been said in another thread today about Crewe's policy being good for the club's progression. Any resources ploughed into their youth policy are being diverted away from the club's senior side, which ultimately is the club's main source of income. To what extent is that acceptable, and to what extent is that level of investment maintained if the club continues to operate in the fourth tier?

The FA should only be caring about what is going to best achieve better quality coaching and ultimately better quality players being produced. Whilst on the face of it it's 'bad' for lower league clubs, I'm cautiously optimistic about the new rules. I know that's not a particularly fashionable thing to say.

I'm inclined to agree to a certain extent. The FA's interests lie in ensuring that the cream of England's talent have access to the best coaches and facilities England has to offer, and EPPP certainly does that. The Football League should have shown a far stronger backbone however in ensuring that FL clubs weren't shafted to the extent they have been.
 
We won't be able to approach youngsters until they're 16 years old and we'll have to give access to any youngsters that impress to Category 1-3 clubs, with a pre-set amount of compensation awarded to us, doing away with the tribunal process.

So does this mean that we won't have any kids on the books under the age of 16? Or am I reading it wrong?
 
So does this mean that we won't have any kids on the books under the age of 16? Or am I reading it wrong?

Yeovil issued a statement which clears this up quite well - http://www.ytfc.net/page/CofE/0,,10673~2757755,00.html

Basically, they can't afford to qualify for Category 3, so will opt to operate within Category 4 in the 16-18 age group only. Those attached to Yeovil in the below age groups won't be allowed to participate in FL-sanctioned games due to them failing to be granted Cat 3 status, so they can either look to join a different club and participate in competitive matches, or be coached by Gary Johnson and his colleagues. They'll be allowed to play limited games (which I imagine will be friendlies against other clubs in similar situations) until they're old enough, or until Yeovil can afford to apply for Cat 3 status.

I imagine we'll be doing something distinctly similar.
 
So does this mean that we won't have any kids on the books under the age of 16? Or am I reading it wrong?
I'd stand corrected by ESB, whose knowledge is far superior to mine in this area but it appears to me that we will maintain a youth set up. However, it seems likely that we may have more difficulty attracting promising local talent, who would gravitate towards the higher quality academies and if we did, by chance, have someone who sparkled he would be likely to disappear to a larger club PDQ!
 
Yeovil issued a statement which clears this up quite well - http://www.ytfc.net/page/CofE/0,,10673~2757755,00.html

Basically, they can't afford to qualify for Category 3, so will opt to operate within Category 4 in the 16-18 age group only. Those attached to Yeovil in the below age groups won't be allowed to participate in FL-sanctioned games due to them failing to be granted Cat 3 status, so they can either look to join a different club and participate in competitive matches, or be coached by Gary Johnson and his colleagues. They'll be allowed to play limited games (which I imagine will be friendlies against other clubs in similar situations) until they're old enough, or until Yeovil can afford to apply for Cat 3 status.

I imagine we'll be doing something distinctly similar.

So, if I understand correctly that is the end of under 16 youths because we would not qualify for the Leagues being set up? Presumably, if we operate in Category 4, there will be and we will be able to participate in, fixtures for the 16 to 18 year old range.
 
So, if I understand correctly that is the end of under 16 youths because we would not qualify for the Leagues being set up? Presumably, if we operate in Category 4, there will be and we will be able to participate in, fixtures for the 16 to 18 year old range.

Exactly. An U21 league is also being established though with the aim of ensuring that clubs retain more talent beyond the usual 16 and 18 year old cast-off dates. I think I'm right in saying that all Category 1 clubs will have to participate in the U21 competition.


In terms of where we are, I'd probably recommend maintaining a Category 4 youth programme until our immediate future is resolved. Although attaining Category 3 would see us become eligible for further grants from the Premier League kitty, I'm not sure that's the wisest thing we should be doing at the moment is pledging financial support to something whilst our future isn't exactly secure. I'd imagine Ricky Duncan would be looking for an exit as a result, but getting out of L2 should be our priority and resources should be diverted towards the senior team.
 
Exactly. An U21 league is also being established though with the aim of ensuring that clubs retain more talent beyond the usual 16 and 18 year old cast-off dates. I think I'm right in saying that all Category 1 clubs will have to participate in the U21 competition.


In terms of where we are, I'd probably recommend maintaining a Category 4 youth programme until our immediate future is resolved. Although attaining Category 3 would see us become eligible for further grants from the Premier League kitty, I'm not sure that's the wisest thing we should be doing at the moment is pledging financial support to something whilst our future isn't exactly secure. I'd imagine Ricky Duncan would be looking for an exit as a result, but getting out of L2 should be our priority and resources should be diverted towards the senior team.

If that is so, where is that going to leave the reserves? Are we moving towards what we have seen more of recently i.e. the reduction or disappearance of Reserve Leagues, replaced by arranged, closed door local friendly matches, during which increased match fitness levels will be sought for players and trialists can be appraised?
 
This EPPP is totally messed up. I wish there was something we could do... (can we camp outside the premier league exec's house?)

Frustrating.
 
I'm inclined to agree to a certain extent. The FA's interests lie in ensuring that the cream of England's talent have access to the best coaches and facilities England has to offer, and EPPP certainly does that. The Football League should have shown a far stronger backbone however in ensuring that FL clubs weren't shafted to the extent they have been.

Indeed they should. Do you know if we were one of the 22 clubs who showed a bit of backbone and voted against the proposals or did we just roll over like the rest ?
 
If that is so, where is that going to leave the reserves? Are we moving towards what we have seen more of recently i.e. the reduction or disappearance of Reserve Leagues, replaced by arranged, closed door local friendly matches, during which increased match fitness levels will be sought for players and trialists can be appraised?

Because Category 1 clubs are currently (I think) 17 of the 20 current Premier League clubs and Southampton, who'll be joining the PL next season anyway, the U21 competition will be replacing the Premier League's Reserve League as of next year. Much like the Olympic set-up, I'd imagine they'll allow a set number of Over 21s for fitness purposes. Clubs will still be free to participate in localised competitions like we do with the Essex Senior Cup and I'd definitely have thought that official reserve leagues are on the way out.

Indeed they should. Do you know if we were one of the 22 clubs who showed a bit of backbone and voted against the proposals or did we just roll over like the rest ?

I'm afraid I don't. I wanted this asked at one of the various Q&A sessions but I can't recall it being answered. Given the current standing of our set-up and what we'd be set to potentially lose by failing to qualify for Category 3, I'd like to think we were one of the 22. That said, we're not exactly in a position to take a stand against an entity threatening to withhold income for failing to do what they say so if I had to gamble, I'd say we probably rolled over.
 
I'd stand corrected by ESB, whose knowledge is far superior to mine in this area but it appears to me that we will maintain a youth set up. However, it seems likely that we may have more difficulty attracting promising local talent, who would gravitate towards the higher quality academies and if we did, by chance, have someone who sparkled he would be likely to disappear to a larger club PDQ!

But isn't that exactly what happens today?
 
Purely hypothetically is there anything to stop a lower level team affiliated to the FA, maybe Ryman league standard obviously with lots of money setting up an academy status or category 1 level youth facility?
 
Purely hypothetically is there anything to stop a lower level team affiliated to the FA, maybe Ryman league standard obviously with lots of money setting up an academy status or category 1 level youth facility?

This applies to Football League clubs so Ryman League won't qualify, but providing the facilities are up to scratch, the coaches are adequately qualified and the club can prove they'll provide the sufficient coaching access, then there's nothing in the EPPP guidelines that I can see that prohibits lower league clubs from attaining Category 1 status. Clubs do, however, agree to rigid auditing measures and Cat 1 clubs are likely to be audited annually. The Premier League would probably to take a dim view to such an occurance and they'd be heavily audited and failed at the slightest whiff of anything untoward.
 
On this note, Man United have signed Nick Powell for £4m. Bit of a surprise, a lot of money for an 18 year-old. He's obviously a talented player but on Wednesday night he was often too greedy and made the wrong decision. Just goes to show how advantageous the location of Crewe is for their academy.
 
Where is the source for this transfer, can't see anything on the BBC, all I can find is one Daily Mail 'exclusive' from Google, which doesn't sound too reliable to me. Why would Crewe agree to anything when they still have the play off final to go to, surely agreeing terms would mean he wouldn't be a Crewe player anymore, making him illegible for the final?
 
On this note, Man United have signed Nick Powell for £4m. Bit of a surprise, a lot of money for an 18 year-old. He's obviously a talented player but on Wednesday night he was often too greedy and made the wrong decision. Just goes to show how advantageous the location of Crewe is for their academy.

And how lucky Crewe have been that Powell isn't just one year younger... Then he would've been eligible to be poached by a Category 1 or 2 club for the maximum compensation of £100,000. Crewe obviously would've made far more than that depending on Powell's success (clubs also must pay future fees as the player accrues appearances), but £100,000 is a drop in the ocean in comparison to what Crewe stand to make from this transfer.
 

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